new to me GC IV

J

jrobin9

Registered
Just bought my 1st table a GC IV (7 yrs old). Bought it based on pictures the owner sent me (little worried about that). The pics did show several to many nicks and dings on the skirts and rails. With shipping $450 I've got $1650 in it. That's the price I was seeing for decent GC III tables so I couldn't resist. So, is laminate replacement possible? Approx cost? Do most mechanics do this?
I'm setting this up in a friends small local pool room for $100 month as is for about 6 months till I get my basement finished then I'll find a mechanic for a full workup.
 
rail top replacement

It's possible to replace them,but,it's a tricky process. I'm having a set done right now for a customer that will replace the GC II rail tops with real rosewood. The job will cost close to 1k though.
 
Pictures

Pictures will get you better answers to your questions.
Good luck in finding you answers.
Photobucket easiest to use in my opinion.
 
GC IV Repairs

jrobin9,

Actually, photos aren't necessary in this case. For dings and scratches in the formica rail caps, there is no suitable repair. Plastic laminate replacement is possible, but as 9-Ball B says, it is risky.

If you do decide to replace the plastic, give the job to a professional custom laminate shop. More than likely, a vacuum bag press will be necessary to properly bond the laminate to the curved surface of the rail.

I'd estimate the cost for replacement at $600.00.

I don't know about GC IV aprons, but at least some of the III's were made of 1 x 2 strips of poplar glued together to make a 1x10, which was then shaped to become the aprons. Because poplar has a wide variation in color, the top coat used was actually a combination of color and clear polyurethane. Thus, the imperfections in the poplar are masked by the translucent finish. It is possible to do some repairs to that type of finish.

Repairing apron dings and top coating with conventional paint is very suitable. In that case, you could go with the pastels of the GC I's, or the ever popular black that most people choose nowadays.

If you insist on aprons with a true stain finish, more than likely you will have to have them made at a local cabinet shop. I'd estimate that cost at about $600.00, plus finishing. Now,if your aprons only have very light scratches, they might be salvageable. Even at that, though, they will require stripping and refinish. Estimate for that, $300.00.

The prevailing wisdom in this forum is to always hire a true professional. Certainly, that is good advice when it comes to the type of refurbishment you are inquiring about.

In conclusion, I want to say that the above information was offered from the perspective I gained from years in the cabinet business. I have only been working on pool tables for a few years. There are many pros here that have decades in pool table restoration and installation. Hopefully, some of them will offer up some info as well.

Good luck to you.

jfred
 
Well got the table in today. The Rails look fine to me (not perfect) but no where near in need of replacement. The side skirts have many surface scratches and slight dings (nothing too deep) and the base needs refinishing also but it isn't bad at all. the corner copper looking pieces are in need of refinishing and I guess the long lasting trend is to just get them powder coated. I'll be able to refinish the base and skirts myself ( got experience with that). Slates are in great shape and I'm guessing the cushions need replacing (I'll get them done by a mechanic when the table gets to my house.) thanks to all for the assistance.

One more question. I have one black rubber (with spinning disc inside) piece that looks like it goes under the feet of the table. Not sure where the other 3 are. What are they called (swivel bearing plates)and are they needed or can the feet sit directly on the floor?
 
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Gciv

jrobin9,

Congratulations to you. Sounds like a pretty good deal. :thumbup:When you get a chance, will you post some photos of the castings as viewed from above with the pockets removed?

Thanks.

jfred
 
jfred0826 said:
jrobin9,

Congratulations to you. Sounds like a pretty good deal. :thumbup:When you get a chance, will you post some photos of the castings as viewed from above with the pockets removed?

Thanks.

jfred
Click to expand...

Sure thing. Hoping to get everything assembled Sunday. Out of curiosity what are the pics for?
 
jrobin9 said:
Well got the table in today. The Rails look fine to me (not perfect) but no where near in need of replacement. The side skirts have many surface scratches and slight dings (nothing too deep) and the base needs refinishing also but it isn't bad at all. the corner copper looking pieces are in need of refinishing and I guess the long lasting trend is to just get them powder coated. I'll be able to refinish the base and skirts myself ( got experience with that). Slates are in great shape and I'm guessing the cushions need replacing (I'll get them done by a mechanic when the table gets to my house.) thanks to all for the assistance.

One more question. I have one black rubber (with spinning disc inside) piece that looks like it goes under the feet of the table. Not sure where the other 3 are. What are they called (swivel bearing plates)and are they needed or can the feet sit directly on the floor?
Click to expand...

If the plate you are talking about is kind of like a lazy susan, they are leg levelers. The feet sit on them and it makes it easier to adjust the legs when leveling the table. They aren't necessary but can come in handy to make minor after the fact when the table settles or should start rolling off slightly, etc.

As for powder coating the corner castings, look at some of the pics posted on here. It is best to use one of the textured or pebbled colors because it helps hide some of the bubbles that can occur when powder coating these parts. The pot metal doesn't heat and cool evenly so some bubbling can occur during the process.

As long as you are going to be setting it up, you would be advised to add the angle iron extensions to the frame to prevent the possibility of slate sag that can result with the GC4. It's an easy and cheap solution and it works (thanks once again, RKC). Here's some pics in post #1:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=132657

You will love the table and enjoy it for many years I'm sure. :D
 
Yep already got my angle and lag bolts. Found that post when deciding on GC III vs my GC IV.

The bubbling on powder coated pieces is from outgassing. I read a little on the internet while researching automotive pot metal finishing options. Never had it done but from what I remember you coat the pot metal with red oxide and bake at a lower temp.
 
jrobin9 said:
Yep already got my angle and lag bolts. Found that post when deciding on GC III vs my GC IV.

The bubbling on powder coated pieces is from outgassing. I read a little on the internet while researching automotive pot metal finishing options. Never had it done but from what I remember you coat the pot metal with red oxide and bake at a lower temp.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you know more than I do about the powder coating. I took mine to a shop in the area that came highly recommended and they told me up front to choose one of the more textured colors because of this. When they hadn't called me when they were supposed to be ready they said they weren't happy at all with the way they came out so they wanted to do it again. When I did pick them up they said they came out a lot better the second time but still gave them to me for free. You can see a few bubbles but only if you really look for them and I thought they came out pretty good, especially for the price. ;)
 
Photos

jrobin9 said:
Sure thing. Hoping to get everything assembled Sunday. Out of curiosity what are the pics for?
Click to expand...

That's it ...just curiosity. I've never seen a GC IV. (there aren't many in North Texas where I'm from) I'm pretty familiar with I's, II's, and III's. I heard the castings are different, and that the pockets fit flush with the casting. Also heard that the IV's pockets are "better", so I want to see how the pockets fit in the castings.

Thanks.
Joe
 
My frame is assembled already. Is there a difference in which end is the head or foot? I don't imagine so but wanted to check. Basically the frame pieces are matched 1:1, 2:2, 3:3 etc Is the end with the ones the head or foot?
The slates I have aren't marked but I am able to tell how they went together and how they were oriented on the table. My installer will be handling all the leveling an such.
The feet levelers had a few stripped screws (the wood screws that hold the fixed nut in place) I just redrilled those. The previous owner was able to locate 2 additional bearing swivel plates but looks like I only have 3... They are going to look one more time but I may be in the market for one.

The rails are labeled from the factory LH RH I assume that is looking at them from the head of the table. Like I say my installer will be setting it up but I want to learn a little.
 
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jfred0826 said:
That's it ...just curiosity. I've never seen a GC IV. (there aren't many in North Texas where I'm from) I'm pretty familiar with I's, II's, and III's. I heard the castings are different, and that the pockets fit flush with the casting. Also heard that the IV's pockets are "better", so I want to see how the pockets fit in the castings.

Thanks.
Joe
Click to expand...

Here's a casting from a IV:

gc4_set_brz_tn.jpg


And here's one from a III:

med_gc_br_set_tn.jpg


You can see the flange inside the pocket below the level of the casting on the GC4 casting. The pocket sits inside the casting on this lip so the top of the pocket is flush with the outside of the casting. On the GC3 the pocket sits on top of the rim of the casting.

Hope this helps.
 
Photograph of Rail Casting

Dogs,

Thanks for the good GC IV as compared to III casting photos. That is what I was looking for.

jfe :thumbup:
 
Table

jrobin9 said:
Drop pocket table for now.
Click to expand...

-
If your racking the balls your at the foot of the table..the pocket to your right is the right hand foot pocket... I put the bridge holder on the right side of frame, the label for the table on the stretcher on the right, the crown or arch on the slate on the right... On drop pockets it don't matter what goes where' there is only two places it can fit and the rails and pockets are labeled to fit head or foot opposite ends.... I think the only thing labeled on the table "right side only" on the drop pockets is the small section of foot apron. And I see you figured out the frame supports are numbered.
- best of luck
Rob.M
 
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