New Year's Resolution - Getting some training / coaching

[ShortBusRuss]

For basically the first time in my life, at 47 years old. I did get one session each with Scott Lee and Mike Sigel, with limited success. Mike Sigel pretty much had no real input on fundamental flaws, and Scott Lee was trying to completely change my stroke, which to be blunt, and have gotten this feedback from a few pros, is more than sufficient to take me to a higher level than my current ~600 Fargorate play level.

I am travelling today to meet for two hours with Fabian Breuer, a training partner of Christian "The Stroke" Reimering, here in Germany. The way I figure it, the German school of coaching is what builds players like Joshua Filler, and it is time for me to take a more scientific approach to my game. My eyes are still holding up well enough, and I am committing for 2023 to get an actual training plan, and working through it to shore up basic flaws in my game.

I sent Fabian a video of one of my ghost practice sessions, and the initial assessment is that there is a lot in my game to build on, and in the run up to Derby, he believes I would most benefit from a solid pre-shot routine. Actual stroke work with come a little later, as to not mess too much with things before I go to Derby.

To that end, I have been sick for the past week or two, and practice has been limited, so I am looking to go to Derby to just have fun, and not be too worried about results. The plan is to visit with a trainer once a month starting in the May time frame. Wish me luck!

 

[gregcantrall]

Good luck! We play to have fun. It's easier to have fun when you are winning.
I had a lucky experience long ago when I asked a Road Player about lessons. When he replied, "we will have to go back to basics." I knew that he was a good coach.
Changing the Pre Shot routine takes commitment. Old habits are hard to break. It's worth the effort. Watching Ronnie O'Sullivan in the World Championship, the thing that struck me was his adherence to the Full Shot Dance. Absolutely the same on every shot. The only thing that varied was the amount of time in contemplating step.

 

[kaznj]

Good luck with your journey.

 

[Grilled Cheese]

Always be suspect of anyone who wants to significantly change your stroke. What they should be doing is, correcting any flaws in your existing stroke, not trying to get you to do something very different. For example, if you have a wobbly bridge ...no matter what stroke you have, that's not good. Things like that which work against you. Not whether you have a long stroke, short stroke, head over cue, head to the side, fast preshot routing, slow preshot routine, wrist angle straight, wrist angle slightly angled. That stuff don't matter overall. Yes, it's (in general) preferred to have a text-book stroke and stance, but it's not necessary. There's tons of phenomenal players with stances and strokes you'd think would result in them being bangers.

Most people are better served being taught the nuances and details of how to shoot various categories of shots. At the B or B+ level, this is going to be the area of the most significant gain to get to the next level as opposed to trying to rebuild a person's stroke as if you're starting from scratch.

I mean, you could do that...but it would painful. It would take many thousands of perfect repetitions to burn into muscle memory a new stroke. This could very well be a huge setback to your game for months, perhaps even more than a year to "rebuild" assuming hard work and dedication ...and that would need to be weighed against the potential progress lost with dedicated training, practice and learning of new shot skills using your existing stroke. That's a tough sell. A year's worth of working with pros learning better shotmaking, position play and approach to shots vs going back to square one to learn a new stroke. Not worth it in my opinion. Oh, and also the psychological impact of this. Unless you are very dedicated and invested to see through to the end a total rebuild of your stroke to absorb all the confidence killing bad play or weaker play you will experience for a long time while acclimating to your new stroke...don't even bother.

I'm saying all this because of the dozen or so people I have seen attempt this in their pool "career", only 1 was successful at it. This person was younger, and highly motivated and easy to adapt. Within a couple of months started seeing what they felt was an improvement. From what I observed, he wasn't getting a stroke rebuild, it was something half way between a stroke rebuild and stroke flaw corrections. The others all suffered, played worse, had mental game collapses, never adapted even when dedicated and ultimately reverted back to their familiar, natural original strokes.

 

[Grilled Cheese]

Also, just because some people can do, doesn't mean they can teach. Lot of pros are obviously great players, but teaching is also a distinct skill. Being able to communicate and transfer the knowledge isn't something most of them can do well from what I've seen. A few might even be BS'ers looking to peddle the obvious to suckers for a few bucks. I'm not going to name names.

On the flip side, there's some great people with impressive teaching skill, but they aren't great players, so the issue there is they don't possess for themselves some of the nuanced things that can make a big difference at the higher levels. If you notice, most of these types teach a very text-book, basics sort of curriculum. Nothing wrong with that. Great play is fundamentals applied. No, there aren't a collection of "secrets" that the pros guard that keeps them at the top and everyone else down below them. But there are things pros will tell you about shooting certain shots that you won't get from your typical non-pro instructors because they themselves don't have that insight. Little details that can make a difference.

The way I see it? Go to the skilled teachers for all the basics, fundamentals etc....they are good enough for that. And in reality, it isn't even so much the things you're learning from them, it's in actuality the coaching you're getting. Having someone pay attention to you, to take care and interest into your game, providing feedback. That's really the difference. And then, from the pros pick up some tips and specifics on more advanced and nuanced things. That approach has worked well for many.

Here's advice for how to interact with pros. First, and again, most are not teachers or have that skill. Secondly, I've noticed many do not have the patience that actual instructors do. Thirdly, many are not that dedicated to it. It's a side gig to make a few bucks in between tournaments. They don't have a passion for teaching.

All that said, don't expect a lot from them. Don't try to extract a whole lot. It won't work for the reasons listed above. Instead, zero in on one thing, and get that from them. For example, in a lesson, you ask them something about the break. They'll give you something good on it, it may not seem like a lot, but it's key. Take it. It's like building blocks, one thing here, one thing there....

In closing the reason why is because of the differences between instructors and pros. Typically, instructors assess you and they give you the guidance they think you need. Pros, typically, are ok interacting with you asking them what you need or want to work with. Again, that's not universal. I have seen some pros make assessments of players and then problem solve it. But I've found it better to know what you want, ask them about that, and get work on that. This implies by nature that you're at a point in your game where you can do that. Pros typically work much better with more advanced players... A level, short stops, semi-pros. Their language and understanding is closer to yours, or yours to theirs.

 

[ShortBusRuss]

So, just got back from the lesson.. Here's a breakdown..

Fabian and I talked a few minutes about my goals, and my frustrations that, despite only having played actual pros in tournaments only a handful of times (about 6 or so..), I had my real chances to beat at least three of them, with fundamentals keeping me from the finish line.

He then had me go straight to the basics, hitting a cue ball straight at the middle diamond and having it return to middle diamond I was shooting from. The first three shots came back slightly to the right of the diamond underneath me. He immediately identified the flaw as being that my right foot was outside the line of the shot, and turned slightly outward too much, which combined to cause my cue to move right off the line of the shot, imparting right english.

He then showed me a solid pre-shot routine involving standing with the line of the shot centering on my navel with my shoulders exactly perpendicular to the shot line, and then stepping "onto" the shot line directly with my right foot, then stepping forward with my left to slightly open of parallel with my left foot. This immediately had the effect of eliminating almost all sideways movement from my cue movement.

We then worked through a series of drills designed to reinforce this movement. By and large, every single time I had a bad stroke with significant sideways movement, he told me "You moved your right foot, after the initial "plant". And he was 100% correct. He really hammered in the point of not adjusting the feet after planting them the first time, and to trust that you are lined up on the shot.

So, in short... €110 for two hours was the best money I ever spent in regards to pool. I am an American living in Germany, and there are simply no top instructors near me at all, let alone any that speak English well. Fabian Breuer is part of a stable of instructors near Düsseldorf (a little over two hours away..) responsible for training of multiple youth champions, including Moritz Neuhausen, multiple time junior world champion. A bit of a drive, but one trip a month for 2 hours of training, totes worth it.

 

[bbb]

good luck in your journey

 

[Vahmurka]

I am an American living in Germany, and there are simply no top instructors near me at all, let alone any that speak English well.

Try to contact Johan Ruysink on facebook. He might happen to get closer to your location, i.e. have a course in Germany or some other matter. Or get a drive to him (Netherlands or Belgium). "A bit of a drive", but totally worth it. Believe me, that's gonna be an eye-opener.

(Alex Lely is also a can't-go-wrong option, it all comes down to who is more in the reach to you and what the charge is).

 

[VIProfessor]

Glad to hear you've found someone to work with. Go get 'em at DCC, bro! And have a blast! I expect regular reports.

 

[skiergd011013]

ive been doing the same thing. Seeking guidance from others. Im actually going to meet a good straight pool payer today for the second time. I took video of myself, and noticed my stroke looks wobbly, although I have played pretty good with that wobbly stroke through the years. What I do is rub the cue against my chest like a lot of snooker players do, but to accomplish that, I have been cocking my stroke arm inward, resulting in the wobble. I need to concentrate on keeping the arm straight, and adjusting the stance to accomplish the rub. I cant really shoot with a free floating cue, meaning only my bridge hand, and grip hand are touching the cue. It feels out of control. I cant do the chin like many players do because if i get down that low on the cue it throws my aim and perception off. The rub on my chest makes the cue feel steady for me.

 

[ShootingArts]

So, just got back from the lesson.. Here's a breakdown..

Fabian and I talked a few minutes about my goals, and my frustrations that, despite only having played actual pros in tournaments only a handful of times (about 6 or so..), I had my real chances to beat at least three of them, with fundamentals keeping me from the finish line.

He then had me go straight to the basics, hitting a cue ball straight at the middle diamond and having it return to middle diamond I was shooting from. The first three shots came back slightly to the right of the diamond underneath me. He immediately identified the flaw as being that my right foot was outside the line of the shot, and turned slightly outward too much, which combined to cause my cue to move right off the line of the shot, imparting right english.

He then showed me a solid pre-shot routine involving standing with the line of the shot centering on my navel with my shoulders exactly perpendicular to the shot line, and then stepping "onto" the shot line directly with my right foot, then stepping forward with my left to slightly open of parallel with my left foot. This immediately had the effect of eliminating almost all sideways movement from my cue movement.

We then worked through a series of drills designed to reinforce this movement. By and large, every single time I had a bad stroke with significant sideways movement, he told me "You moved your right foot, after the initial "plant". And he was 100% correct. He really hammered in the point of not adjusting the feet after planting them the first time, and to trust that you are lined up on the shot.

So, in short... €110 for two hours was the best money I ever spent in regards to pool. I am an American living in Germany, and there are simply no top instructors near me at all, let alone any that speak English well. Fabian Breuer is part of a stable of instructors near Düsseldorf (a little over two hours away..) responsible for training of multiple youth champions, including Moritz Neuhausen, multiple time junior world champion. A bit of a drive, but one trip a month for 2 hours of training, totes worth it.

Note that you thought your stroke was just fine until someone you were willing to listen to told you it wasn't. Fabian may be the instructor for you. No sense going to someone whose approach you don't believe in.

I am having a little trouble following the foot placement which leads to the question, do you play right handed or left handed?

I recommend you video yourself once a week between visits to Fabian. You will be able to see improvements and see where old habits are sneaking back in. No sense in practicing wrong for weeks in between visits.

I agree with a lot of what Grilled Cheese had to say, great players rarely make good coaches, particularly while still competing. It takes different skill sets and personalities to be a great player and to be an instructor or coach. Few have both skill sets or can develop both.

Here is a bit of instruction, you can put my check in the mail! Be sure that every time you feel a foot move, or even a strong shift in body weight to move a foot, that you get completely out of the shot. Step back from the table and reapproach the table. You need this complete reset for that particular problem, just putting the foot back in place isn't enough.

Good Luck in Your Journey.

Hu

 

[ShortBusRuss]

Note that you thought your stroke was just fine until someone you were willing to listen to told you it wasn't. Fabian may be the instructor for you. No sense going to someone whose approach you don't believe in.

I am having a little trouble following the foot placement which leads to the question, do you play right handed or left handed?

I recommend you video yourself once a week between visits to Fabian. You will be able to see improvements and see where old habits are sneaking back in. No sense in practicing wrong for weeks in between visits.

I agree with a lot of what Grilled Cheese had to say, great players rarely make good coaches, particularly while still competing. It takes different skill sets and personalities to be a great player and to be an instructor or coach. Few have both skill sets or can develop both.

Here is a bit of instruction, you can put my check in the mail! Be sure that every time you feel a foot move, or even a strong shift in body weight to move a foot, that you get completely out of the shot. Step back from the table and reapproach the table. You need this complete reset for that particular problem, just putting the foot back in place isn't enough.

Good Luck in Your Journey.

Hu

Well, not sure I believed my stroke was "fine" with Scott Lee, but asking a middle-aged player with limited practice time to completely change their stroke from one type to another is a bit unrealistic, IMO. My stroke is "good enough" at least, that Fabian was surprised I had never taken down a pro in an event, so...

And as far as the foot placement, what he noted is that my right foot (I play right handed) was outside of the line of the shot, and turned outward, which was causing a swooping rightward movement of my cue, applying right english on nearly every shot, and causing pretty serious deflection to the left on firmer shots. This pretty much explains why I have been overcutting shots to the right, and undercutting to the left.

He had me hitting the balls straight up and down the middle of the table, and the error was consistent. The foot placement was basically making sure my right leg stepped directly onto (but not "down") the line of the shot, and resulted in my right arm being directly in a plane between upper arm and forearm, over my right foot. This pretty much immediately corrected the swoop, and resulted in a much more consistent return of the cue ball directly to the middle diamond on the up and down test.


And as far as the "elbow drop", Fabian says correct technique (as least as far as he as Christian Reimering teach it), is to let the cue finish on the cloth for draw shots, and to only drop the elbow on follow shots. And these guys aren't just good players. They are training junior world champion caliber players.