No Limit 9 Ball?

[Teacherman]

...Locally, players advance from the APA (and City league, Players Club, Metro) to the two other leagues. I've heard that this is the pattern nationwide. Correct me if I'm wrong...

I would bet that is just your area.

The differences in the leagues is their format not the skill of the players. And, low level players have little or not chance in the APA system. What 2 or 3 can beat 6 or 7 in a race of 8 Ball. If the handicaps are accurate then a 2 or 3 will be lucky to ever beat a 5, 6 or 7. If it was 9Ball it might be different. The low level player can luck in the 9 or the good player can miss on the 8 or 9, giving the beginner an opportunity. But no 2 or 3 can negotiate a full table of balls and get their suit off before a 6 or 7.

On the other hand, BCA has a ball counting system where a 2 or 3 or low level handicap doesn't have to win any games to be effective. Just out run the ball count. This gives them an opportunity to be effective league players when they are beginners. If all they have to do is clear 3, 4 or 5 balls (whatever) they have a chance to do that. Much better chance than to clear their suit and make the 8 before a 6 or 7 level handicap.

Factor in the extremely poor handicapping system of the APA and the league is just bad for pool.

 

[dooziexx]

One of my league team member got selected and 2 days later they called her back saying that the network wanted to cut 2 episodes and one of them was hers... Thats sucks as she would have been great on that show....Talk about a major letdown!!

 

[Bob Romano]

Erik, who was that? Can you PM me ?

Eydie

 

[DoomCue]

I would bet that is just your area.

The differences in the leagues is their format not the skill of the players. And, low level players have little or not chance in the APA system. What 2 or 3 can beat 6 or 7 in a race of 8 Ball. If the handicaps are accurate then a 2 or 3 will be lucky to ever beat a 5, 6 or 7. If it was 9Ball it might be different. The low level player can luck in the 9 or the good player can miss on the 8 or 9, giving the beginner an opportunity. But no 2 or 3 can negotiate a full table of balls and get their suit off before a 6 or 7.

Sure they can, happens all the time. Why do so many people think that a handicap system is supposed to GUARANTEE a win for the lower-ranked player?

On the other hand, BCA has a ball counting system where a 2 or 3 or low level handicap doesn't have to win any games to be effective. Just out run the ball count. This gives them an opportunity to be effective league players when they are beginners. If all they have to do is clear 3, 4 or 5 balls (whatever) they have a chance to do that. Much better chance than to clear their suit and make the 8 before a 6 or 7 level handicap.

So a handicap system which changes the objective of the game (legally pocketing the 8 ball in 8 ball) is better than a handicap system which takes the objective of the game into account? That doesn't make sense - why call it 8 ball if the goal isn't to pocket the 8 ball? This is why I hate APA 9 ball, since it's not 9 ball at all, it's straight pool, shot in rotation, with only 9 balls on the table. Your example of a low-level player lucking in the 9 doesn't mean anything in APA play except for 2 points and the break.

Factor in the extremely poor handicapping system of the APA and the league is just bad for pool.

That's a stretch. How does a league which boasts a huge membership and sponsors players, tournaments, and TV shows become bad for pool? Most room owners love the APA because it brings in customers. Some of those customers will outgrow the APA and actually become good players. How is that bad for pool?

-djb

 

[Teacherman]

You make some good points........However......

The APA has been around since 1979 I believe. They do have a lot of people playing pool. In bars. They have hit their ceiling. League numbers are down across the country. And their membership is far from what will make pool a better sport. Some fine people I'm sure.

But.....attend one of their events and then think about asking your neighbor, or your doctor, your boss, your insurance agent, your lawyer, or local business owner.....(you pick it).....to come watch, or better yet get involved.

They will have 0 interest. Not the kind of crowd they expect to hang with. Until you can go into the middle, upper middle, and upper class subdivisions and see the guy, and hopefully his wife, leave their house with a pool cue over their shoulder we haven't made it. And, if they have to head to a corner bar and deal with joe sixpack and sleazy mary, it will never happen.

A very high percentage of these people have golf clubs. Many have bowling balls. Next to none have pool cues.

The saying goes.......I opened a billiard room, the APA and the other leagues came, and it turned into a pool hall..........It is quite accurate.

The league has been very successful. The owners make outstanding money. They screw the pool player and you guys like it. They propagandize you into believing how great it is. You buy it. Their handicap system is a joke. On and on and on.

Then you come on here and defend it because it's big.

The only way pool has a chance to be big is through in house league play in upscale billiard rooms. A junior program is necessary also. Needs to come from the upscale pool room.

Out of this, next years pros will arise and a constant influx of new blood will occurr. Pool can then grow.

As long as we rely on Budweiser to sell pool for us...........we'll get what we deserve.

 

[Teacherman]

Sure they can, happens all the time....

If handicapped properly, which they aren't, it is virtually impossible for an APA 2 or 3 to beat a 6 or 7.

Bet what you want. Post it.

 

[Jack Flanagan]

The saying goes.......I opened a billiard room, the APA and the other leagues came, and it turned into a pool hall..........It is quite accurate.
As long as we rely on Budweiser to sell pool for us...........we'll get what we deserve.

I'll drink to that ! <joke> ,,,,If someone could come up with a system that eliminated sandbagging and also had honest handicapping, they'd be rich but I would join anyway,,,local apa leagues here have some professional players in their 'amateur' league,,,these people have no means of support other than fleecing the system and a few 'marks' each week (& they always play on someone else's 'dime')

 

[DoomCue]

If handicapped properly, which they aren't, it is virtually impossible for an APA 2 or 3 to beat a 6 or 7.

Bet what you want. Post it.

And shouldn't it be? What's the incentive to get better if you can beat good players without even knowing how to play? There's a big difference between FAIR chance and GUARANTEED win.... And I'll bet whatever YOU want, 'cause I've seen 2's and 3's beat 6's and 7's. APA 6's and 7's aren't Efren and Archer. Any person can be beaten at any time by anyone.

League numbers are down across the country.

Really? Not around here. Leagues are growing in leaps and bounds. You must have some hard numbers. Would you mind posting those?

They screw the pool player and you guys like it.... Then you come on here and defend it because it's big.

How does a player get screwed by a league?
I'm not defending the APA because it's big, I'm defending it because the APA, regardless of whether or not you dig their handicap system, does a helluva lot more for pool than you give them credit. BTW, I play in the APA Masters league, which is non-handicapped. I don't dig ANY handicap system. But that's my personal choice, and I'm a good enough player that I don't need a handicap, and I don't want to give up weight to someone who does. Although I don't like handicapped leagues and choose not to play in them, I'm not going to knock the APA because of their handicap system. There are players who need handicaps in order to be competitive - I have no problem whatsoever with that. If YOU do, then don't play, plain and simple. But don't say the APA is bad for pool. I'd wager a guess that room owners who don't care about the growth of the game are far worse for pool than the APA.... Once again, I say, "How does a league which boasts a huge membership and sponsors players, tournaments, and TV shows become bad for pool?"

-djb

 

[Teacherman]

And shouldn't it be? What's the incentive to get better if you can beat good players without even knowing how to play? There's a big difference between FAIR chance and GUARANTEED win....
-djb

There's also a big difference between NO CHANCE and FAIR CHANCE. No Chance is what a 2 or 3 has against a 6 or 7.

I agree there should be incentive to get better. BUT, in the interest of growing the sport of pool, a handicap system has to force good players to play good to win. If they can win and play 75% of their speed it's not a good system.

No rookies will stick around long enough to get hooked.

How does a player get screwed? Get your calculator out and figure where the money goes. It's not close to fair.........but it's very close to stealing.

The only hope of attracting players is offering them a decent system where they can compete. APA doesn't offer it.

Finally, BET. Bring me any properly handicapped 2 or 3 you want. They won't win 1 out of 20 games. Most won't win ever. Too much work to do to pocket their suit plus the 8. Not enough opportunities against a good player.

 

[Rackin_Zack]

There's also a big difference between NO CHANCE and FAIR CHANCE. No Chance is what a 2 or 3 has against a 6 or 7.

I agree there should be incentive to get better. BUT, in the interest of growing the sport of pool, a handicap system has to force good players to play good to win. If they can win and play 75% of their speed it's not a good system.

No rookies will stick around long enough to get hooked.

How does a player get screwed? Get your calculator out and figure where the money goes. It's not close to fair.........but it's very close to stealing.

The only hope of attracting players is offering them a decent system where they can compete. APA doesn't offer it.

Finally, BET. Bring me any properly handicapped 2 or 3 you want. They won't win 1 out of 20 games. Most won't win ever. Too much work to do to pocket their suit plus the 8. Not enough opportunities against a good player.

This is very true. I never lost to a 2 or a 3, although when I was a six I almost lost to a 2...lol. The guy got on hot streak and ran 5 balls in a row and ended up winning the game. His captain told him, "don't worry, he can't beat you six games in a row." Needless to say this pissed me off and I made sure that if he beat me he was going to have to play way above his head. He didn't have an easy opportunity at the table for the rest of the match...lol.

 

[DoomCue]

How does a player get screwed? Get your calculator out and figure where the money goes. It's not close to fair.........but it's very close to stealing.

Oh, I get it, the APA makes money, so that's the problem. Can't have anyone associated with pool making money, can we? Even if they do use some of that money to sponsor players, tournaments, and TV shows....

Most leagues are ENTERTAINMENT, first and foremost. Complaining about a league making money is ridiculous. That would be like complaining about the movie industry making money because you spent $7.50 at the theater. Is pool supposed to be socialist/communistic all of a sudden?

-djb

 

[Teacherman]

Oh, I get it, the APA makes money, so that's the problem. Can't have anyone associated with pool making money, can we? Even if they do use some of that money to sponsor players, tournaments, and TV shows....

Most leagues are ENTERTAINMENT, first and foremost. Complaining about a league making money is ridiculous. That would be like complaining about the movie industry making money because you spent $7.50 at the theater. Is pool supposed to be socialist/communistic all of a sudden?

-djb

I think you should use your calculator and figure out if you think what's happening is fair to the player.

I'm in business. Profit is important. Nothing wrong with them making money. Lots of it.

But..............get your calculator out. No possible way to conclude the player is being treated fairly.

 

[Eric.]

Back to the original topic...

Anyone hear about anymore people selected? Anyone from NYC make it? Will the Yankees choke again? Anyone?? Bueller?


Eric >curiosity

 

[landshark77]

If handicapped properly, which they aren't, it is virtually impossible for an APA 2 or 3 to beat a 6 or 7.

Bet what you want. Post it.

When I was a 3 I beat several 6s and a 7. You can further bet I was handicapped right.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[girlwon1]

in reply

From what I know, I think Melinda Huang made it. I also made it. What they said that they really want is someone who will miss here and there. Makes it more exciting. They said that getting players that can run out all over the place can be watched on ESPN. What one of the people before commented which would be benificial is to maybe educate (in a small way) the difference in the levels out there that play pool. Sometimes it can be unnerving to hear for the nth time that someone's dad was a really great player because he won the City Championships on the bar box back in '79. It also focuses people on watching the game of 9 ball on a big table. Pretty soon, show that enough, and you may see more people abandoning their regular 8 ball/bar night out with the boys and head to the local pool room. What ever the case, the more hours logged on TV, people playing pool, is good for the sport. Showcasing people of all abilities, of all sizes, of both genders is a GOOD thing. Everyone can play this game! Let's get everyone wanting to.

Tina Pawloski
San Diego, Ca

 

[frankncali]

Good luck to you and Melinda
Both of you two can play well and should make it interesting. I was
wondering what "cast" they were shooting for. Do you know what day
you are filming? Myself and a couple others are going to go to a taping
next week.
Counting you two I know or know of 4 girls that have made it. All are very easy on the eyes!!
Good luck again
frankncali

From what I know, I think Melinda Huang made it. I also made it. What they said that they really want is someone who will miss here and there. Makes it more exciting. They said that getting players that can run out all over the place can be watched on ESPN. What one of the people before commented which would be benificial is to maybe educate (in a small way) the difference in the levels out there that play pool. Sometimes it can be unnerving to hear for the nth time that someone's dad was a really great player because he won the City Championships on the bar box back in '79. It also focuses people on watching the game of 9 ball on a big table. Pretty soon, show that enough, and you may see more people abandoning their regular 8 ball/bar night out with the boys and head to the local pool room. What ever the case, the more hours logged on TV, people playing pool, is good for the sport. Showcasing people of all abilities, of all sizes, of both genders is a GOOD thing. Everyone can play this game! Let's get everyone wanting to.

Tina Pawloski
San Diego, Ca

 

[girlwon1]

I am personally taping on Tuesday, March 15th. I know that in general they are taking a diverse group, players that have personality, good playing ability, or looks. Some of the people have only one of these things, some have all. I would love to see you come out on Tuesday, would love to see some familiar faces....

Tina

 

[vapoolplayer]

can someone please BEG them not to call the show "BALLBREAKERS" like they have apparently changed it to............

VAP

 

[Nostroke]

can someone please BEG them not to call the show "BALLBREAKERS" like they have apparently changed it to............

VAP

Im with you. Get ready for the shaft and stroke jokes. I have douche chills already.

PS-I think Steph Boch made it and a kid named James who is shooting real well from Florida, Didnt hear anything about any NY'rs.

 

[Reverse English]

Ball Breakers

Well unfortunatly they have changed the name to Ball Breakers...

Anyways, My episode was filmed today.

One girl from SanDiego One Girl from Los Angeles
Myself from Los Angeles and a youngman from Chicago
I can't reveal who won but I can comment on the game itself

I concider myself a traditionalist when it comes to pool but i found the format for this game exciting and origional.
3 rounds as well as mini games in between to determine table control.
The hosts we're fun, Sal Masacara(sp) and Ewa.
The players were interrupted inbetween shots or before a 9-ball attempt for a brief interview. (sort of takes you out of rythym)

well to give you a hint on how I did... I missed 2 shots durring the entire show, and the 20 grand came down to the nine ball..

I recommend everyone interested in pool atleast give it a chance, Take it for what it is. Strong C and low B players infront of 150 people and a half dozen cameras. The play was good and exciting... some nice shots made and a couple easy shots Dogged.
Mars was a great guy and the cast and crew were excellent. I had a great time.

I think it's going to do well if the right audience finds the show..

thanks