no smoking as of 4-15... ways to get around?

W

wannaplaySOME?

stack it up!
Silver Member
so smoking was banned in NJ as of 4-14-06 at 12:01am....

I have a few questions...

1. Is there a way around this?

2. If you make it a private club, I know you can then permit smoking, however, how do you do this and how much does it cost?

3. Also, for those of you that live in states with this already enforced... apparently NJ is also enforcing that you cannot smoke within 25 feet of the building? is this like this in the other states?

Any valuable feedback will again earn my reputation points. Thanks a bunch!
 
wannaplaySOME? said:
so smoking was banned in NJ as of 4-14-06 at 12:01am....

I have a few questions...

1. Is there a way around this?

2. If you make it a private club, I know you can then permit smoking, however, how do you do this and how much does it cost?

3. Also, for those of you that live in states with this already enforced... apparently NJ is also enforcing that you cannot smoke within 25 feet of the building? is this like this in the other states?

Any valuable feedback will again earn my reputation points. Thanks a bunch!
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WA state started back in February of this year... and we have a 25' restriction as well.

Re any way of getting around it depends on how the NJ law reads.

In WA, the law was written around employees... you know, they projected it as an employee health rights issue... and if an entity has employees, the no smoking indoors law applies.

There is NO exception for private clubs or otherwise. Even the Elks, the VFW, the Moose and the like have to comply. Even long-established Cigar Bars have to as well. :(

In our case, the law was passed by public initiative... and when that happens, for the law to be amended in ANY form within the first two years of it being in effect takes a 75% majority of the legislature to agree to the amendment.

Every congress-person that I have contacted re this doesn't want to touch it with a 10-foot pole. :(
 
wannaplaySOME? said:
so smoking was banned in NJ as of 4-14-06 at 12:01am....

I have a few questions...

1. Is there a way around this?

2. If you make it a private club, I know you can then permit smoking, however, how do you do this and how much does it cost?

3. Also, for those of you that live in states with this already enforced... apparently NJ is also enforcing that you cannot smoke within 25 feet of the building? is this like this in the other states?

Any valuable feedback will again earn my reputation points. Thanks a bunch!
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I just looked up a few details on the new smoking law in New Jersey and I have to say, there's little room for maneuvering unless you have a very good lawyer. It affects all work-places which would include "private clubs".

I have to say, as crappy as the law may appear on paper, you'll be surprised by how little it will impact business in the long-term. I'm a smoker and I've grown almost indifferent to smoking vs. non-smoking clubs. In fact, every time I leave the state and find myself in a smoker-friendly place, I'm always a bit shocked and a little disgusted and I assure you, I never thought I'd feel that way 3 years ago.

The fact is, it's a step in the right direction. Because of the smoking-ban, I smoke considerably less when I go out and I've grown accustomed to it. The common associations made with drinking & smoking or playing pool & smoking have weakened considerably for me and for that, I'm grateful.

If you're a smoker, I know that you argue against the law because today, you choose to smoke but let me ask you this: If you had to do it all over again, would you be a smoker?
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
If you're a smoker, I know that you argue against the law because today, you choose to smoke but let me ask you this: If you had to do it all over again, would you be a smoker?
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Unequivocally... YES!! :)

I enjoy premium, handmade cigars.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
I have to say, as crappy as the law may appear on paper, you'll be surprised by how little it will impact business in the long-term.
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FWIW, my home-away-from-home is a combination pool hall and a sports bar... actually more of a sports bar but it does have five 9-footers and eight 8-footers... and I'm pretty good friends with the owner... and he told me that since last February when the smoking ban went into effect here, his business is off 30%.

And the REALLY hard hit bars/clubs are those on or near the state lines... like those just inside WA but near the Oregon border and the Idaho border. They're really hurting.

There's an impact alright.
 
cigardave said:
FWIW, my home-away-from-home is a combination pool hall and a sports bar... actually more of a sports bar but it does have five 9-footers and eight 8-footers... and I'm pretty good friends with the owner... and he told me that since last February when the smoking ban went into effect here, his business is off 30%.

And the REALLY hard hit bars/clubs are those on or near the state lines... like those just inside WA but near the Oregon border and the Idaho border. They're really hurting.

There's an impact alright.
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Well, if you're looking at the initial three months, of course you're going to see an impact. However, in New York City (we bordered two smoking states for a time) after the first two years, most bars & poolrooms returned to normal business and any decent business is going to look beyond a bad season or a bad year.

Trust me, this argument is old. Your state's situation is not unique. This is the direction the country is moving in, like it or not. Did businesses close since the smoking-ban? Yes but new businesses have also opened, including new poolrooms.

Think what you will but your opinion is in the minority, it's the plain and simple truth. Non-smokers are adament about getting it banned altogether and the impact public smoking has on others is proven and documented. Was I for it when it passed? No. Would I fight to keep it? Probably not but that's not the point. The point is, get used to it. It's not going anywhere. Smoking is not the only lure for a poolroom and if that was an owner's strategy before, it's imperative that he change that strategy now.
 
cigardave said:
FWIW, my home-away-from-home is a combination pool hall and a sports bar... actually more of a sports bar but it does have five 9-footers and eight 8-footers... and I'm pretty good friends with the owner... and he told me that since last February when the smoking ban went into effect here, his business is off 30%.

And the REALLY hard hit bars/clubs are those on or near the state lines... like those just inside WA but near the Oregon border and the Idaho border. They're really hurting.

There's an impact alright.
Click to expand...

Owners like to complain and they also like to tell their customers what they want to hear.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
Well, if you're looking at the initial three months, of course you're going to see an impact. However, in New York City (we bordered two smoking states for a time) after the first two years, most bars & poolrooms returned to normal business and any decent business is going to look beyond a bad season or a bad year.

Trust me, this argument is old. Your state's situation is not unique. This is the direction the country is moving in, like it or not. Did businesses close since the smoking-ban? Yes but new businesses have also opened, including new poolrooms.

Think what you will but your opinion is in the minority, it's the plain and simple truth. Non-smokers are adament about getting it banned altogether and the impact public smoking has on others is proven and documented. Was I for it when it passed? No. Would I fight to keep it? Probably not but that's not the point. The point is, get used to it. It's not going anywhere. Smoking is not the only lure for a poolroom and if that was an owner's strategy before, it's imperative that he change that strategy now.
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You ought to ask the owners at Chris's Billiards in Chicago what the new ban on smoking in the Windy City has done to their business in the past six months. They told me the bangers are headed to the burbs where they can shoot pool and smoke too. This anti-smoking stuff is the latest liberal political correctness afflicting us all. And I don't smoke cigarettes... A cigar once in a while, but not allowing smoking in the pool rooms won't keep me away. My friends? Several won't go to Chris's anymore. What's that worth to Chris's each month? Not chump change, I assure you.

Flex
 
I can assure you!

Flex said:
You ought to ask the owners at Chris's Billiards in Chicago what the new ban on smoking in the Windy City has done to their business in the past six months. They told me the bangers are headed to the burbs where they can shoot pool and smoke too. This anti-smoking stuff is the latest liberal political correctness afflicting us all. And I don't smoke cigarettes... A cigar once in a while, but not allowing smoking in the pool rooms won't keep me away. My friends? Several won't go to Chris's anymore. What's that worth to Chris's each month? Not chump change, I assure you.

Flex
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Those bangers will be replaced eventually with non-smoking patrons considering the majority of the population is non-smoking. Business will then be the same or even better like mine. I also was adamantly against the law and still am as I believe in the owners right to decide. But it will work out I assure you.
 
nfty9er said:
Those bangers will be replaced eventually with non-smoking patrons considering the majority of the population is non-smoking. Business will then be the same or even better like mine. I also was adamantly against the law and still am as I believe in the owners right to decide. But it will work out I assure you.
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and those patrons will live longer. Patrons in the hospital or funeral home are of a less desireable demographic anyway.
 
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For the record...here in WA, the 25' rule applies to no smoking while STANDING within 25' of any doorway, functioning window, or other air intake. You may, however, smoke while walking down the sidewalk, within 25' of any business.

The problem most smokers is....we pay taxes like everyone else...actually MORE...because the tax on cigarettes is absolutely ridiculous!!! Yet, smokers are treated as if they are second class citizens. That's pretty much the bottom line.

Now, if there were laws banning alcohol from anywhere other than your own home...........the country would be in an outrage, ala Prohibition. Yet, the consumption of alcohol is directly related to more deaths than that of second hand smoke. To argue otherwise would be just plain folly, so don't even bother....there just isn't enough data available yet to prove otherwise, as they have not been studying nearly as long as the effect of drunk driving has been studied, and proven......drunk drivers kill....yet they are allowed back on the roads, time and time again. Now that's where the legislation should be spending their money...let's improve existing laws, before we go off passing new ones.

No one group of peoples, in this country, should ever be singled out and treated like second-class citizens.....but that is exactly waht has happened in this case. It's a violation of our Constitutional rights.....go read it.

Lisa
 
I believe that there is no law that states, at least in NY, that requires an establishment to call the local authorities if someone is smoking in the establishment. In fact all that the establishment needs to do is to is to post the signs and ask those that are smoking to stop. The law also does not state that you are required to bar a smoker who is smoking either.

Most establishments get nervous and pay the fines as they receive them for fear of losing their liquor license. They can't, that is unless the do not post the required signs.

I know many places that posts the signs, ignore the laws and win in court simply because they did everything they were suppose to do..

Smoking is not a good thing but pumping gas at a gas station is a horrible thing due to carcinogens. Brain tumors are more prevalent since the advent of the vehicle.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
... most bars & poolrooms returned to normal business and any decent business is going to look beyond a bad season or a bad year....
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I remember 2 years ago when the law was being instituted there somebody mentioned that places in CA had recovered after a couple of years. Looks like the same thing happened in NY.
All I know is that there is a room 5 miles from me in So. NH, but I drive 20-25 minutes to play in non-smoking MA. The place I drive to is 2 miles from the NH line, but they seem to be maintaining pretty well. The smokers seem to except having to step away to smoke without a lot of complaining. They do however have an attached Cigar shop where people go to smoke so they don't have to face the weather.
 
catscradle said:
I remember 2 years ago when the law was being instituted there somebody mentioned that places in CA had recovered after a couple of years. Looks like the same thing happened in NY.
All I know is that there is a room 5 miles from me in So. NH, but I drive 20-25 minutes to play in non-smoking MA. The place I drive to is 2 miles from the NH line, but they seem to be maintaining pretty well. The smokers seem to except having to step away to smoke without a lot of complaining. They do however have an attached Cigar shop where people go to smoke so they don't have to face the weather.
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Good idea on the cigar shop. Regarding NYS, no big rebounds. many bars have closed and pool halls have lost lots of business in upstate NY. I think there has been a small rebound but clearly not like it used to be. I think after a whole generation moves ahead we will see an improvement, that is also assuming the economy picks up.
 
ridewiththewind said:
For the record...here in WA, the 25' rule applies to no smoking while STANDING within 25' of any doorway, functioning window, or other air intake. You may, however, smoke while walking down the sidewalk, within 25' of any business.

The problem most smokers is....we pay taxes like everyone else...actually MORE...because the tax on cigarettes is absolutely ridiculous!!! Yet, smokers are treated as if they are second class citizens. That's pretty much the bottom line.

Now, if there were laws banning alcohol from anywhere other than your own home...........the country would be in an outrage, ala Prohibition. Yet, the consumption of alcohol is directly related to more deaths than that of second hand smoke. To argue otherwise would be just plain folly, so don't even bother....there just isn't enough data available yet to prove otherwise, as they have not been studying nearly as long as the effect of drunk driving has been studied, and proven......drunk drivers kill....yet they are allowed back on the roads, time and time again. Now that's where the legislation should be spending their money...let's improve existing laws, before we go off passing new ones.

No one group of peoples, in this country, should ever be singled out and treated like second-class citizens.....but that is exactly waht has happened in this case. It's a violation of our Constitutional rights.....go read it.

Lisa
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It's for the best. There was a time when chemical plants dumped in our rivers, places that manufactured auto batteries so polluted areas they still can't be inhabited. Just because it may impact a business is not a reason to allow them to do what ever they want. No one has made smoking illegal, Your welcome to sit home and kill yourself, it is just becoming more difficult for you to kill me with your addiction.
 
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wow...

some very passionate responses on here... i didn't' know i would stir up such a debate... i will respond to these comments when i have time, thanks for the feedback though!
 
nfty9er said:
Those bangers will be replaced eventually with non-smoking patrons considering the majority of the population is non-smoking. Business will then be the same or even better like mine. I also was adamantly against the law and still am as I believe in the owners right to decide. But it will work out I assure you.
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That's pie in the sky stuff, IMHO. Besides the anti-smoking laws, video poker is taking an effect too. This doesn't mean poolrooms will close, but some may. One of the folks who works at Chris's but doesn't smoke said that something like 70% of pool players smoke. I have no idea where she got that. But I see my friends heading out the door to smoke. Happened night before last during a tournament, several times.

What's really at work here is the be-safe-at-all-costs crowd getting their way. The trial lawyers love it. And so do their political buddies, who, in large measure come from the leftist party... It's the kind of thing that leads to a crazy society. Criminalize infractions that were taken to be more or less normal, say speeding, by imposing 6 months in jail and/or a $5,000 fine, and treat the killing of the unborn by abortion as a "pregnancy management decision."

Flex
 
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