Non-Gambling Pool Players

[nataddrho]

Entering a tournament could be a form of gambling.

The point of playing for money is so that it matters. If you play for free you can just go for the run out every time. you know, "for the love of the game".

"To 'win' is a bad reason for playing because this motive will not help you become good at the game... Those of us who fall in love with the game don't do so because we love to win. We fall in love with it for other reasons: the pleasures of small motions... Focusing on the grace and elegance of your shots, pushes your competitive anxiety away from the center of your awareness."

Bob Fancher, PhD. - The Pleasure of Small Motions: Mastering the Mental Game of Pocket Billiards

 

[gregcantrall]

You ever play at the Hawaiin/Samoan joint in Puyallup

I was there in the early to mid '80s. South Hill Saloon had a Wednesday night B tournament for those not interested in playing the best in the Northwest at the White Spot Wednesday night 9 ball. The South Hill Saloon did have enough small money action to make road players address book. Doug Medina, Denny's cousin entered a one dollar ring game and declined the raise the bet offer. After execution of a jump shot with the Big cueball at 16 inches full ball, he was up 10 and ready to raise the bet. That was before jump cues. (He did have good weed and I enjoyed his road stories)
The other place I frequented was the North Hill Saloon. A spin off from the South Hill. It was adjacent the bar that had wet t-shirt contests. Baldy's Apartment was the name of that place if I remember right. Was my home base for a while as well. The Roadhouse on south meridian beyond the South Hill, had a little action too.

South Tacoma Way had The Creek Water and Red Roof. The Creek was my intro to tournament pool in or around 82. The Red Roof was my first tournament victory. Won 50 and spent 75 celebrating.
University Place had The Ram with a dedicated ring game table that started after work every night. 4 was all that were allowed in, so when more wanted in, raise the bet. Often it was $10 by closing time.
As an aside the only Samoan place I remember was in Sacramento. The American River Lounge had serious Samoan patronage.

 

[markjames]

as hemmingway said,

“The world breaks everyone and afterwards many are strong at the broken places.”

but he also shot himself with a shotgun

 

[DeeDeeCues]

Entering a tournament could be a form of gambling.

The point of playing for money is so that it matters. If you play for free you can just go for the run out every time. you know, "for the love of the game".

Playing well matters to me. That's enough.

It's like driving, I try to be a better driver every time I get behind the wheel. I try to be better at everything I do, every time I do it.

 

[gregcantrall]

amounts of money I couldn't even imagine being able to lose..

Playing on your nerve (broke) is an experience detailed in the book McGoorty. I had a similar story with the same happy ending. Nothing (well other than drugs) could elevat my focus like the taste of blood. Being unable to cover the wager is a sobering experience when playing guys that jump off of running horses to grab a running steer by the horns.
Thankfully I was able to avoid the addiction but do understand the rush of the Fight or Flight situations.

 

[couldnthinkof01]

Sharkstream had a great gambling match last night.
Verner vs young Kaci. Verner got a game going to 10. The youngins are gambling!

 

[gregcantrall]

Jump off of running horses to grab a running steer by the horns.

Just imagine telling this guy you don't have the money.

 

[justadub]

Entering a tournament could be a form of gambling.

The point of playing for money is so that it matters. If you play for free you can just go for the run out every time. you know, "for the love of the game".

That is generally a fixed amount that you're paying in, with a chance of a return on the investment. To me.

Yes, it is playing for money, and there is something on the line, compared to funsies. But it's not quite the same as gambling sets. To me.

 

[Twocylndr]

Historically it was played in horse racing venues in the rooms where bets were pooled, but not pooled on the game of pool. So, slight distinction.

What??? Where did you get that idea???

I believe this is true, I've read about that on the internet and in a book or magazine

 

[Badpenguin]

That is generally a fixed amount that you're paying in, with a chance of a return on the investment. To me.

Yes, it is playing for money, and there is something on the line, compared to funsies. But it's not quite the same as gambling sets. To me.

Well, you can start by reading about it on the BCA site:

 

[briankenobi]

Sharkstream had a great gambling match last night.
Verner vs young Kaci. Verner got a game going to 10. The youngins are gambling!

I think it depends on the player and the area they are at. I saw Verner playing for money at Derby so that seems a norm. When was the last time we saw Joey Tate gambling?

 

[couldnthinkof01]

I think it depends on the player and the area they are at. I saw Verner playing for money at Derby so that seems a norm. When was the last time we saw Joey Tate gambling?

Nathan Childress is from Joey's area and he's got some gamble.
Joey's a good guy. Last saw him in VA. He won the tournament iirc, not much time for gambling
That match last night was fantastic, for those who didn't see it.

 

[InsertCleverNameHere]

a coin lost in the river is found in the river

 

[grindz]

When I was younger, after a while I learned that I really didn't enjoy taking someone's money.
I hated losing my own..... It was a lose/lose so I stopped.

Now, after many decades I think I see it a little differently.... but still kind of the same. ;-)

td

 

[white1]

Quick general response…in the seventies and 80’s, there were 1 dollar ring games playing nine ball, banks and cut throat then cheap 8 ball-then life happened for me…wife and kids. Now I find only tournaments primarily hosted through fargoish systems. Most people seem afraid to gamble, even cheap. I hate tournaments-I love gambling cheap, and I play bad. Everything about the game I love changed. It happened..I don’t like it.

 

[gregcantrall]

But it's not quite the same as gambling sets.

Well tournament play has a fixed entry and one or two set losses. Playing sets for money allows you to continue if you still have ammunition. My thinking in competition for money.....Not Gambling! Was along the lines of a 10 shot clip. In ten rounds time I should know if I want to hit the cash machine. I had a Tuesday night regular on the east side of Seattle, maybe Totem Lake. We played cheap, maybe $3 nine ball. Nothing sweeter tha sending him to the cash machine. We had great even battles that could take a 10 game swing there were nights I lost but never beyond my pocket. I had a slight edge on the money for the 6 months we did it every week. The next Reno Sands my playmate entered and cashed. Go figure. Having a sparing partner will sharpen your game.

 

[DynoDan]

Interesting aspect of ‘playing for money’:
The old time pool hustlers would NEVER school you (you have to be ruthless I guess, if you make your living that way). I avoided those guys like the plague. The players that I lost to growing up were sportsmen. They had no qualms about giving away useful advice.
Sometimes, less experienced players that WILL play me for money will refer to me as a ‘pool shark’, unaware of what an insult that is. When I take their money, I try to return value, and give away any pointers I feel might help them. Anyone game, but hopelessly inept, gets as big a spot as needed from me, and never has to ask.

 

[markjames]

like the baron told the kid in the 1984 film
starring johnny and june carter cash

“This hotel’s been in his family for three generations son…

…but some stakes are just too precious to put on a lampshade.”

 

[highkarate]

completely untrue

(i understand that it’s true for you
and i can respect that, and i know
a lot of pool players that say the same
thing)

I guess my rebuttal would be, assuming that you agree quality one pocket has much to do with assessing risk vs reward… how can you expect it to be played at a high level when there is no risk or rewad?

 

[Fatboy]

I think I understand what you are saying, but this part isn't clear to me. Do you mean that you respect people that encouraged you go through hard work to achieve your goals? Whether or not you pay cash (be it for a "class" or an "opportunity"), you can have mentors either way. And either way, they can't implant psychological knowledge into your brain without you deciding that it is important to you and to do the work required as a student.

We can have fraternal groups that encourage us based on shared fascination for the game itself, not guarded by the exchange of money. If you literally mean the exchange of money builds character, which I don't think you do, then I don't agree with this at all.

Edit: Additionally, though I've never met you in person, I've only read good things about you and your reputation. I was not alive during the previous era when circumstances and the social relationship to the game were different. Therefore I am not a serious detractor.

This is a deep topic, which is why I prefaced my statement “the world has changed “

meaning, in the past most things were earned not given. And I had more respect for guys who earned it. That’s shifted a bit over time, decades.

These days with all the free information anyone would be crazy to “pay” dues. So my perspective has changed with time.

so I respect your views and my old views. My current view is inline with your views(mostly-I still believe action will develop your full potential-there’s few exceptions in pool, Ralf Soquet is a example of a champion who doesn’t like action & has my highest respect)

that clear things up a bit? I’m not arguing with you at all. I’m old and seen a shift in life, culture, the way things work

I wish with a few clicks I could have learned what took me years to learn.

I can’t get mad at anyone learning a different way than I learned. And how I learned must be respected by others who learned their way. It’s a 2 way street. Mutual respect between the generations.

hope that makes sense,

best
fatboy <——— can’t stand typing on a iPad lol


One last point, if I didn’t respect what you have to say. I wouldn’t take the time to respond to you, I’d just let it go. Your points are valid.