Notice to ebay sellers: Global shipping program may snag your cues!!!

[9Ballr]

ALL rosewoods are on the CITIES list now, not just Brazilian and Cocobolo. That means no international shipping period of any rosewoods.

I recently bought a guitar from German maker who had all the CITES regulation papers stamped with beveled stamps from the German Government.

If you can somehow prove the wood was cut before CITES then you can get those papers.

This particular guitar maker had no problems proving his huge stack of Brazilian Rosewood was all cut long before then.

Matter of fact the wood in this particular guitar is from the mid 1960's.

But if you can't prove it you're better of not sending anything made of any wood internationally.

 

[pt109]

I recently bought a guitar from German maker who had all the CITES regulation papers stamped with beveled stamps from the German Government.

If you can somehow prove the wood was cut before CITES then you can get those papers.

This particular guitar maker had no problems proving his huge stack of Brazilian Rosewood was all cut long before then.

Matter of fact the wood in this particular guitar is from the mid 1960's.

But if you can't prove it you're better of not sending anything made of any wood internationally.

Sorta goes against our cultural ethos...now you're guilty until you prove your innocence.:angry:

 

[GideonF]

Gideon, how the hell can they make this retroactive?
I've got plenty of woods in my collection that were perfectly legal when they were made.

I remember getting a $15 speeding ticket in the early 70s...am I going to get a letter that
says due to the new fine increases, I now owe an additional $153?

seems like a case for a class action suit....
...free legal opinions would be appreciated...

PT,

Free legal opinions are worth what you pay for them, but as I understand it the CITES restrictions are on import and export. So I doubt that the cues you legally bought twenty years ago are a problem for you to own. I also think (but am even less sure) that the CITES restrictions don't stop you from selling your legally purchased 20 year old cues domestically (assuming you don't have reason to believe they are going to be exported - see what happened with Ginacue).

If you happen to own and want to export, or you want to import, a pre-ban product (like a 20 year old cue with cocobolo), I think there is a special permitting process that might let you do it, but you will have the burden to prove it is legal (so a signed and dated cue from 1992 that was made with coco might be okay).

What I don't know, and am trying to figure out, is what happens with cues you already own and want to transport for personal use across borders - like if you want to take your 1992 coco cue to the US for a tournament.

 

[michael4]

The item now belongs to the people in the global shipping program and they can liquidate or destroy it at their pleasure. .

someone in the Ebay shipping department wanted your cues..........:yeah:

 

[Bavafongoul]

Folks.......please understand this.......it is very simple.

Ownership of a cue that contains any restricted, or banned, matrials is subject to de facto enactment of the law.
The U.S. Constitution prohibits enactment of any ex post facto laws and so the ivory ban was enacted de facto.

If you acquired your cue before the law was enacted, you are just fine because ownership is not restricted in any way.
It is the sale, purchase, or even one's efforts to do either, of any cues that contain ivory, etc. that these laws regulate.

If you travel internationally, there are going to be risks since you have the responsibility to "prove" your cue was acquired legally.
The only way to to prove that is to have a CITES certificate for every cue which seems to be literally impossible to obtain.

There is nothing you can get from your cue-maker that will substitute for a CITES certificate so there's travel risks.
However, domestic travel within the United States does not require any CITES documentation & is totally safe..


Matt B.

 

[Rain-Man]

Ebay has this super legit feature called the global shipping program. On the seller side, you just tick this box saying you enroll in it, and basically you ship the package to this US sorting center where the buyer pays their fees to get the item sent off to wherever they are. Pretty neat and no funny business.

A few weeks ago I sold a handful of old one piece cues on ebay, and my buyer was international. I had checked the global shipping program option because it's no hassle on my side and opens up more buyers for my item. I ship them out to erlanger kentucky or wherever it designated me to and basically this is another easy transaction from ebay. Today I get a message from the buyer that the item is declared restricted and it has a message that it won't be shipping out from the sorting center. A few hours later, I get an email from ebay that the global shipping program has classified the item as restricted and it won't be shipping out international. It also says the buyer is being refunded and that I can keep the proceeds of the transaction.

I called ebay because this doesn't make sense. THe lady on the phone said since the item was declared restricted/not shippable that Ebay themselves refunds the buyer and I get to keep the money from the sale. The item now belongs to the people in the global shipping program and they can liquidate or destroy it at their pleasure. She also couldn't tell me why the item was declared classified or what the threshold might be to make a package restricted.

So all in all, not a horror story since me and the buyer are not out any money, in fact I still technically made the sale. But 6 great quality one piece cues with that old good wood in them are sitting in some massive warehouse now where they will live out a pathetic life before getting tossed in a dumpster. Word of warning to anyone who was considering using this program for their ebay account.

I've had a few cues snagged now with the Ebay GSP as well.

The email from ebay said the same thing, item was restricted, buyer refunded, I get to keep the funds.

The first one I had no Idea why, but then after the second one, it was easy to see that it was cause of them being Rosewood, or Rosewood looking.

I assume Ebay isnt going to keep taking it up the arse, so I cant see that 'we refunded the buyer, and you get to keep the funds' policy being around for very long (lol)...

Rain-Man

 

[KRJ]

I used it recently to sell an expensive Surefire flashlight with batteries to a guy in the 'Russian Federation'. I shipped to Kentucky also, the whole deal was quick and without a hitch!

So, do you collect the shipping charge, or does Ebay tell the customer how much the shipping will be, and the buyer then has to make a second payment ??

 

[billiardthought]

So, do you collect the shipping charge, or does Ebay tell the customer how much the shipping will be, and the buyer then has to make a second payment ??

RJ, the buyer is on the hook to get the item from Kentucky to their location. On your end, it looks like a regular sale that you ship to Kentucky. In fact, of the two items that used this program, I didn't even know they were international items until I received emails from the ebay global shipping program updating me on the status...

 

[KRJ]

RJ, the buyer is on the hook to get the item from Kentucky to their location. On your end, it looks like a regular sale that you ship to Kentucky. In fact, of the two items that used this program, I didn't even know they were international items until I received emails from the ebay global shipping program updating me on the status...

OK, cool. So, the buyer already knows it's shipping from the US and can expect the $75 or more shipping price for the item. Just didn't want to get some customer giving me bad rep because I failed to disclose the shipping costs.

 

[fastone371]

So let me see if I have this straight.

Indonesia's rain forest has been completely stripped and they try to grow oil palms in the few places they might survive a couple of months.

Africa's rain forest has been largely decimated of valuable wood in favor of oil palms.

All of the valuable wood has been harvested and already sold internationally and a few crooked people in the guilty parties countries profited nicely and at this point in time in 2017 they are going to start to worry about international trade on valuable hard woods??? Isnt that kinda like putting on a condom after you find out your girlfriend is pregnant???

 

[Johnny Rosato]

So, do you collect the shipping charge, or does Ebay tell the customer how much the shipping will be, and the buyer then has to make a second payment ??

I offered free shipping conus. I didn't realize that it was available for sale world wide. My other sales I was able to check a box for US only, didn't see it on this sale. I still only paid about $4.00 from B'ha, Al to Kentucky.

 

[Johnson]

This is basically what's called a courtesy refund, Ebay did away with them in the past year or so when they switched from actual cases to Nazi executions for sellers that disagree with buyers! If you ever have a disagreement with a buyer CALL before opening a case and ask if you'll win, otherwise you will lose and your account(s) can be limited, suspended or terminated. I sell on Ebay fulltime and 5% or so of my items are through the GSP and I've never had a single issue with any intl buyer (knock on wood).

 

[justinb386]

Ebay has this super legit feature called the global shipping program. On the seller side, you just tick this box saying you enroll in it, and basically you ship the package to this US sorting center where the buyer pays their fees to get the item sent off to wherever they are. Pretty neat and no funny business.

A few weeks ago I sold a handful of old one piece cues on ebay, and my buyer was international. I had checked the global shipping program option because it's no hassle on my side and opens up more buyers for my item. I ship them out to erlanger kentucky or wherever it designated me to and basically this is another easy transaction from ebay. Today I get a message from the buyer that the item is declared restricted and it has a message that it won't be shipping out from the sorting center. A few hours later, I get an email from ebay that the global shipping program has classified the item as restricted and it won't be shipping out international. It also says the buyer is being refunded and that I can keep the proceeds of the transaction.

I called ebay because this doesn't make sense. THe lady on the phone said since the item was declared restricted/not shippable that Ebay themselves refunds the buyer and I get to keep the money from the sale. The item now belongs to the people in the global shipping program and they can liquidate or destroy it at their pleasure. She also couldn't tell me why the item was declared classified or what the threshold might be to make a package restricted.

So all in all, not a horror story since me and the buyer are not out any money, in fact I still technically made the sale. But 6 great quality one piece cues with that old good wood in them are sitting in some massive warehouse now where they will live out a pathetic life before getting tossed in a dumpster. Word of warning to anyone who was considering using this program for their ebay account.

That is kind of sad, for the buyer, who received a full refund, and was unable to receive their order. It sounds really strange. Very strange that ebay would be willing to refund the buyer, as if it was their fault. The fault is on the person who shipped the cue to the intenational buyer. They must have messed up.some how on the Customs form. I am curious, did you lose any money by using the Global shipping program? Would you have made more money on the deal by lesser fees, if you had shipped it to the buyer yourself? It really does sound like a great program, because the seller does not have to worry about the item getting to the buyer safely. I think I would use it, even if there were a small fee envolved. There is always a lot of worry (for me) when shipping something like a laptop or a pool cue, to europe or asia, or anywhere that is outside of the US.

 

[MitchAlsup]

Ebay has this super legit feature called the global shipping program. On the seller side, you just tick this box saying you enroll in it, and basically you ship the package to this US sorting center where the buyer pays their fees to get the item sent off to wherever they are. Pretty neat and no funny business.

A few weeks ago I sold a handful of old one piece cues on ebay, and my buyer was international. I had checked the global shipping program option because it's no hassle on my side and opens up more buyers for my item. I ship them out to erlanger kentucky or wherever it designated me to and basically this is another easy transaction from ebay. Today I get a message from the buyer that the item is declared restricted and it has a message that it won't be shipping out from the sorting center. A few hours later, I get an email from ebay that the global shipping program has classified the item as restricted and it won't be shipping out international.

It is situations like this that I keep a lawyer on retainer.

 

[GideonF]

PT,

Free legal opinions are worth what you pay for them, but as I understand it the CITES restrictions are on import and export. So I doubt that the cues you legally bought twenty years ago are a problem for you to own. I also think (but am even less sure) that the CITES restrictions don't stop you from selling your legally purchased 20 year old cues domestically (assuming you don't have reason to believe they are going to be exported - see what happened with Ginacue).

If you happen to own and want to export, or you want to import, a pre-ban product (like a 20 year old cue with cocobolo), I think there is a special permitting process that might let you do it, but you will have the burden to prove it is legal (so a signed and dated cue from 1992 that was made with coco might be okay).

What I don't know, and am trying to figure out, is what happens with cues you already own and want to transport for personal use across borders - like if you want to take your 1992 coco cue to the US for a tournament.

Okay, so I got some information from the Canadian CITES people. I was asking about travel from Canada to US, so people should make your own inquiries if you are thinking of going elsewhere. Also, it was a premise of my question that the cues I own were all bought years ago and that I was travelling with my cues to use, not selling, importing or exporting. I also only asked about cocobolo and ebony, because I don't have any other exotic woods in my cues. What I found out was:

1. For cocobolo, if you are traveling with your cue (personal possession) it is outside of the CITES permitting requirements. This assumes (amusingly for me) that the cue has less than 10kg (!) of cocobolo. Also, the cue has to travel with you, so you cannot send it out by mail or courier.

2. For Ebony, they are not concerned with it when it is in a finished product. They are only concerned with Madagascar Ebony and it is logs, sawn wood and veneer sheets.

Even with all the caveats, I hope this helps.

 

[pt109]

Okay, so I got some information from the Canadian CITES people. I was asking about travel from Canada to US, so people should make your own inquiries if you are thinking of going elsewhere. Also, it was a premise of my question that the cues I own were all bought years ago and that I was travelling with my cues to use, not selling, importing or exporting. I also only asked about cocobolo and ebony, because I don't have any other exotic woods in my cues. What I found out was:

1. For cocobolo, if you are traveling with your cue (personal possession) it is outside of the CITES permitting requirements. This assumes (amusingly for me) that the cue has less than 10kg (!) of cocobolo. Also, the cue has to travel with you, so you cannot send it out by mail or courier.

2. For Ebony, they are not concerned with it when it is in a finished product. They are only concerned with Madagascar Ebony and it is logs, sawn wood and veneer sheets.

Even with all the caveats, I hope this helps.

Thanx, Gideon....free advice can be worth a lot.
Gonna be crossing in the next while....I was concerned about my old Joss and Black...
...lotta ebony in them....and if I lost them, money could not console me.

 

[GideonF]

Thanx, Gideon....free advice can be worth a lot.

Gonna be crossing in the next while....I was concerned about my old Joss and Black...

...lotta ebony in them....and if I lost them, money could not console me.

No problem. I asked for my own selfish reasons - my own cues!

Make sure your Joss and Black don't have any of that controversial white stuff! That's no doubt a whole other issue.

 

[pt109]

No problem. I asked for my own selfish reasons - my own cues!

Make sure your Joss and Black don't have any of that controversial white stuff! That's no doubt a whole other issue.

They used to have ivory ferrules....but I have replaced every ivory ferrule I've ever owned.
I hate the way ivory hits on spin shots.