Now that things seemed to have died down... VERY VERY long post be warned

ForumGhost516

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well everyone another year has passed of the Fury 14.1 Challenge and it had its successes and failures all of which will be addressed in this post.

This is not a thread about results or numbers but a thread about what happened and the new ideas we are putting into place next year.

First and foremost we need to thank our incredible sponsors who made donations and showed their support to keep the event alive and growing.

We need to thank our title sponsor Fury who put up the cue sight page to monetize the $1,000.00 (retail value) raffle cue for us and of course their help and input into the event as a whole including the light situation at the expo itself. If it wasn't for Matt, Scott, and of course Heidi as well as Chad from Diamond we would not have had those lights and the event would have been a bit darker to say the least. Also through Fury came multiple avenues of advertising whether it be in a very classy press release for us or the cards at the event site Fury has made every effort to promote the game of 14.1 and this event as a whole. Not only that but Fury paid for things that may seem arbitrary to others but to us made a world of difference like the cost of having our tables clothed in the beautiful strachan cloth that was on them as the event went on.

Through Fury comes another sponsor that has been with us since the start, Strachan Cloth. They once again donated two beautiful cloths for our players as well as $500.00 for the event itself. We are proud to use Strachan cloth as our cloth year after year and proud to have them on board with us.

Diamond Billiard Products, I mean they were there until three in the morning setting up an entire event and if you were at the venue this year it was massive and the volume of tables that were there was just sheer madness. The fact that they took time to help us with our event is incredible to us and we can not thank Chad, Greg Sullivan and their entire crew for their help the entire weekend. Whether it be from the table light situation all the way to the donation of the industry standard pro am tables. We can not thank them enough for their continued support.

Bob Jewett the man the myth the legend and pretty sporty player as well once again helped out with a massive 1k donation and we had the pleasure of getting the chance to hang out with Bob throughout the week. His knowledge of rules regulations etc just amazes me. Bob thank you so much for your continued support and love for this incredible game.

Allen Hopkins Productions for putting on such an amazing event every year. It really is one of the best events of the year and Allen's entire staff works around the clock to ensure that it goes off to the best of their ability. In addition to this tireless effort Allen makes a huge contribution to us every year in the form of a free booth to house the event.

Kamui Billiard Products who is currently one of the largest and most popular companies out there with top pros all over the world using their tips chalk and accessories.

Our cue makers have been a massive help to us and it seems every year we get more and more cues in our hands to give away to some lucky raffle winners.

Pete Tonkin
Tony Zinzola
Dave Jacoby
Richard Hsu
Ob Cues

To all the private donors of this incredible forum people like Bob Mills, Jim Franklin, Andy Walker, Gene Mann, Stu Mattana, Steve Lipsky, Rich Klein, our very own lovely Linda (Maebelle) and so many more it is with you in mind that we created this event and it is with you in mind that we continue it for the past current and future fans of 14.1.

To our room owners Holden Chin, Bob Maidoff, and of course the Sandman Ed Liddawi we can not thank you enough. Your support in this event was massive and we look forward to seeing you all in your rooms soon. Each of you brings something special to the table in your own rooms and we are proud to showcase that quality through you at our event.

Geoff Conway and the London Bridge, the best billiards accessory in the industry hands down. Players through out the event were treated to using the London Bridge and of course Geoff made a very generous $250.00 donation to the event once again. Simply said if you don't have a London Bridge in your case, YOU NEED ONE !


Now on to the event itself. I am going to be completely honest here and not hold back anything as you deserve to know our side.


Steve and I arrived at the new venue we were in awe of its sheer size. I'm not going to lie not having a hotel attached is always rough. When we walked in it just seemed like everything was hard this year. Whether it be figuring out locations and placement down to simple things like getting electricity.

We already paid for electricity mind you once to power up sound the ball polisher and of course the plasma displays even though every person in there could tap into one of the million outlets just hanging on the large stone columns at no charge but we were made (Fury*) to pay once again for the table lights.

Once we got placed we went over to expo services to start building an arena for ourselves. When we first walked in the door all we had was two strips of carpet two red and white vendor tables a few chairs and two pool tables. Not the event you saw when you walked in the door. So after some logistical planning etc with Allen Hopkins's people and the expo services we had our arena built and we were pretty happy about it. We were in a good spot where people were constantly coming and going.

Day 1 on Wednesday was a bit rough as we were dealing with no table lights but that in all honesty was a planning error on my part and something I should have researched further. New venue new issues and something we didn't have to worry about last year with the lighting we had on hand. So as mentioned above Matt Carter Scott and of course Heidi our title sponsor came to the rescue and paid to have some trussing put up as well as the electrician to hang it and of course Diamond for supplying us with the beautiful table lights. That was at about 9:30 am on day 2 after we had arrived at 7 am to find the electrician after we had left the night before around 3:30 am.

Day 2 went off without a hitch the event ran well and we were getting people in and out as quickly as possible keeping the event moving. Our incredible core group of people that were helping us were doing a great job, Mike Panzarella and Mark Hadley as well as our new friend and comrade Bob Mills, Sean Leinen, Ron Faraday and even Bob Jewett took some time to help out as well.

Day 3 - this is where things seemed to take a turn for us in our format. I want it to be known that we will no longer be using our current format and will be adopting a new one next year. Basically we were going by if you had broken 90 in your five attempts you would be moved up to the "pro" or advanced bracket. Again we know the mistake we made here and are rectifying it next year. Keep reading and you will see how. One player in particular was very upset and made it known to basically anyone and everyone who would listen including John Schmidt, Shane Van Boening, and of course Mark Griffin. The other side to this of course that most people don't know as they weren't in the booth with us but behind a computer screen making blind observations is how angry and rude this player became calling our event bullshit etc. By this time folks we were all running on no sleep basically as we do every year and tempers were running high. I don't think anyone in this situation was right or wrong i just think tempers got the better of everyone in a bad situation and looking back on it I wish it had happened differently.

Day 4 Saturday the pros come out to play, we had had a number of pros coming through the booth to try the event to get into the top 8 to take a shot at the prize money at this point but what you guys need to understand from our perspective is that the pros can take up to an hour and a half sometimes two hours on a table which is great for them but horrible for our list and our players who are waiting to get in the event. This unfortunately is the nature of the beast and just something that has to run its course. At this point the decision was made to expand our tables to two of the artistic pool tables in their arena. The people from that event were gracious enough to let us use their equipment and we greatly appreciated it. Multiple players amateur and pro alike came over to those two tables to take their chances as well as the ones playing on the tables in our booth.

Now here comes the rub. The issue with this is that certain people misconstrued this as an attempt to show favoritism to other players. This was just not the case. No player chose where they played simple as that. They did not choose what equipment they played on or with. We used what was available to us at the time including one of Steve's personal Aramith Ball sets and delta rack. As was mentioned in other posts we run this event off of donations, and this was no different. We used what we had and what was given.

The issue with this and i do agree with this is that it simply wasn't fair. You had one player playing on a table with a blue spot aramith cue ball with strachan cloth and table lights while another player played with a measle ball on simonis with no lights. That being said it was an idea that had the best intentions in mind but unfortunately its execution was flawed. The last players left us around 5 am and the finals were set.

The finals.

The chop, it happened it shouldn't have but it did and in all honesty we recognize how foolish it was. A lot of people are blaming me for not enforcing there be a final etc. and that is fine it is my fault. I also however will not be having my players sign a contract or legally binding document next year either though as some have suggested as that is just ridiculous.

Now that being said we had spoken to Allen and JR days before the event the days of the event and the day of the final and still it came down to people. It was just bad timing. It is very easy for everyone to sit back and say it should have been done this way or that way but those people are not in our shoes and do not have to worry about an entire expo being torn down around you or planning this event and putting it on year after year. It really is a thankless job where you are most times wrong in pretty much every decision you make as someone is bound to be pissed if you decide one way and somebody else will be pissed if you decide the other way. lol That being said however next year there will be a final i don't care if we have to drive down the block to Sandcastle to the lovely room of our sponsor Ed Liddawi and I have to pay to have it streamed myself there will be a final. I do not blame Charlie or Mika personally. Mika is a champion pure and simple who got stuck playing in another event that ran longer than expected. Charlie as well is a champion and contrary to popular belief didn't just leave to go down the road and watch the beauties play. He was there at around 4 or 5 pm when the finals were set to be played. He waited over an hour for us before he left and when Mika was finally finished it was well after 8 pm. Putting the finals in motion around 8:30 closer to 9:00 pm.

Guys I said it before and I will say it now it was just a no win situation. Yes we acknowledge that the sponsors and fans got screwed out of the final via live stream and we can do nothing but apologize for that profusely learn from the mistake and move on. We are not professional tournament promoters by any means and are definitely learning the ins and outs of it.
 
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ForumGhost516

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
That being said here is the good.

1. We are working with a large sponsor for next year who is supporting us both in ideas and funds to keep the event growing.

2. We have a new format that will split the field evenly in half. Bracket 1 will consist of players who score 0-139 balls in 5 attempts. Bracket 2 will consist of players who are name pros, people who have made our top 8 before, and of course anyone who scores a 140 or above.

Now here is the difference Bracket 1 and Bracket 2 will now both have a tournament offering our "amateur" players a better pay day and their chance to claim the title. Brackets 1 and 2 will now take the top 4 from their respective brackets to move forward into the tournament stage. It used to be top 8 pros now it will be top four from each.

3. If you are not available for the finals when we are ready to play within a certain time period you will forfeit your spot and any prize money that would have been awarded to you and the next player in line will take that spot. This goes for both bracket 1 and 2. This we feel will stop any scheduling conflicts from arising. Your schedule as a player will no longer be our responsibility. Our event is a great one and deserves the scheduling respect of any other. We know our event is small but its not small to us or our sponsors. This will be made aware to all players before even putting together their cues so there will be no confusion as to our new stronger stance on this.

4. There will be no chop period. Finals will be played out even if the expo is being torn down around us.

5. We are looking into our own live stream for next year in association with InsidePool. JR and of course Alvin do an amazing job and we will look to their guidance for this. We would like the entire event to be streamed with round the clock commentary in the booth etc.

6. We are very excited about next year and we are rich with time to plan and make arrangements so the problems we faced this year can be behind us and as mentioned we continue to grow.

I am sorry for the long post but it had to be put out there.

To all of our winners we congratulate you and we hope to see you next year. To all of our sponsors and fans we thank you for your support and love in this event. For those of you that won't be back next year we understand and again apologize but just know you will be missing out on something great next year.

Best to all.

Charlie
 

BayGene

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
SBE 14.1 Challenge

Thank you, Charles, for your long considered response to all the criticism you faced this year. You and Steve have addressed many of the concerns. As brutalized as two sleepless guys can be by relentless sniping, you have answered every fair objection constructively.

Rest up, guys, I can't wait until next year and I will increase my widow's mite in support.

And, as always, thanks...
 

Rich R.

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Charlie, you and Steve do not do a "thankless job". There are many of us who really appreciate all of the hard work you, Steve and all of your helpers do. If I haven't said it before, I'll say it now. Thank you everyone, for doing everything necessary to make this event happen.

Although I was one of the many who were not happy with the chop, I have total confidence in you, Steve and everyone else involved and I know next years event will be bigger and better than ever.
 

ForumGhost516

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Charlie, you and Steve do not do a "thankless job". There are many of us who really appreciate all of the hard work you, Steve and all of your helpers do. If I haven't said it before, I'll say it now. Thank you everyone, for doing everything necessary to make this event happen.

Although I was one of the many who were not happy with the chop, I have total confidence in you, Steve and everyone else involved and I know next years event will be bigger and better than ever.

Rich I meant no offense man esp to you, believe me this forum is the reason Steve and I did and do this event. It's for all of us in here to keep this great game going. It's for old and new fans alike to keep the sport in the forefront of everyone's minds. It's going to be a great year next year. Rich thanks so much for your support in everything we have been doing.

Charlie
 

DogsPlayingPool

"What's in your wallet?"
Silver Member
Sound like you've put a lot of thought into resolving the issues and improving the event.

I've a quick question about the new format. Do you foresee the potential for a player to stall out his attempts at right around 139 in order to stay in the "Am" group and assure themselves a spot in the playoffs? For example, I'm an unknown. So if I score a 139 I'm basically tied for first on the amateur side, but if I score 140 or above I'm thrown in with the big boys who knows if I'll get a spot.

As a spectator on the internet I had no knowledge of all the other issues that cropped up during the event. For most of us the issue was the lack of the final and no stream. I like your idea of looking into a dedicated stream for the final so it isn't contingent on the 10 Ball stream table being available. I'd watch the 14.1 final over the 10 Ball event for sure (yes, even the 10 Ball final). Conduct a final and stream it and I believe the event will be considered a huge success by most of us.

I appreciate all the effort. ;)
 

Demondrew

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Charlie and Steve,

I know of no endeavor that goes off perfectly. I and others appreciate the initiative and time you put into this event. I will be here to support the Challenge next year. Keep up the good work.

Hit 'em where you want 'em to go!

Andy
 

Rich R.

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Rich I meant no offense man esp to you, believe me this forum is the reason Steve and I did and do this event. It's for all of us in here to keep this great game going. It's for old and new fans alike to keep the sport in the forefront of everyone's minds. It's going to be a great year next year. Rich thanks so much for your support in everything we have been doing.

Charlie

Believe me Charlie, no offense was taken. I'm sorry if it sounded that way.
In fact, I'm am sorry for not being able to do more to support this event.
 

obe1

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Contest winners

Pictures of twinners/ prizes for the lucky winners ?

..just curious ...
 

8BallWonderland

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I also think that the new format suggested will not work.
Some players will get close to 139 and then miss to end their 5 innings and stay in the lower bracket.

I still think as I mentioned before the start of the Fury 14.1 Challenge, you should perhaps have two divisions.
Any Male player on the BCA Masters List and above is in with the pros.
The rest are in with the amateurs.

The format of the amateur division is not going to be perfect as players like Bob Madenjian will slip through somehow and get in the wrong division.
Going on the AzBilliards player finder and searching the player would help.
You would have seen that Madenjian has cashed in Pro tournaments and is even better at 14.1.

But the 139 idea will not work.

Also please address the issue of never having any set time to the end of the qualifying period.
Players should know by around 11pm at the latest if they need to stay an extra night for the playoffs the next day.
 
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