NYC area members - Pool Room needs/needed?

[Roscoe]

Boy, am I glad I live in Jersey..

Fuggedaboudit,
Roscoe

 

[pooltime]

First off, it sucks how this post went off on this tangent. I never started this tread to get people speaking about other room's financial statements or to concentrate on the reasons behind the closing of Amsterdam East. This was never about 1 room and for the record I think the Amsterdam people run a great place on the westside and I'm very happy I started going there. There are many rooms around me and I drive in from Brooklyn to shoot there a couple of times a week.

This thread was more to be about how I've seen the landscape change by being away from it for a bit and how rooms like Chelsea were missed. Also to see and get opinions if a room like that could ever exist in NYC again the way the City is structured now.

This was also a post for NYC members to express what was missing from NY pool and why and what they thought could change for the better. I've been around this game since I was a kid and just needed to take a break from it while I started my own business. This is a great game and one that most do not realize how much skill is involved. It is an unbelievable achievement to play great pool.

Jude you nailed a couple of points here: 1) Slate IS more of a nightclub and just seems like they forgot to remove the pool tables. It is an interesting concept, but it is definitely not for a player - they want that yuppie drinker. 2) A bar/lounge will run circles around a pool room with only 1/2 to 1/4 of the space. It's funny how a player might complain about spending $25 on pool for several hours, but not have a problem knocking down $10 specialty martinis at the "IN" lounge and drop a C-note in less time. Jude I've seen you a couple of times in Amsterdam and next time I will introduce myself.

As mentioned the real estate has gone thru the roof in NYC. About 3 years ago I had a pipe dream of opening one of these bar/lounges in Tribeca and for 2500-3000 sq.ft the rents were between $11,000 and $15,000 a month (plus some of these places wanted 3-6 months security). So you can only image what a pool room has to deal with needing 3 times that space and having 80% of the space taken up by tables and not people.

Anyway, a lot of good stuff here, too bad it went off the path a bit. Remember we're all on this board because we enjoy this game enough to waste our work time posting about pool.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

It's economics. Pool rooms don't make enough money on table time. The owners have figured out that players spending 10 bucks an hour for 2 hours is not as lucrative as 4 yuppies running up a $200 bar tab in 2 hours + the table time. The yuppies like loud music and good times, and really don't give a second thought to having an Aramith cue ball or Simonis 860.

I don't think there is an easy solution to the problem as it stands in NYC. With astronimical rents, the owners have to focus on their bottom line first, and then the players. One byproduct is that the best time for the players to play is during daylight hours. Unfortunately, most j*bs are during daylight hours...

IMO, the best pool hall for players in NYC is Racks (in Astoria). Too bad it isn't in a prime location, or easy to get to from Manhattan. As a backup, I give Corner Billiards a thumbs up (despite their mediocre attempt at finding the middle ground between a bar with tables and a poolhall with a bar...)

-td

I like Racks and yes, it's way out in the middle of nowhere. Corner Billiards simply lacks anything resembling specials. Their "free hour after 8" is simply not worth it when you consider what the hourly rate is.

Amsterdam's powerplays are just ridiculously cheap. Of course, during their primetime hours (Fri & Sat. night), the Powerplays aren't quite as good but if you play during the early/late hours, you're stealing. Sunday afternoon you can play from 11am to 6pm for $29. It simply doesn't get any cheaper in NYC.

Really, I beg to differ that Amsterdam holds the regular in total disregard. The owners play pool (they're actually quite good) and have always shown an interest in professional and amateur pool. They host events (local & national) and sponsor players (professional & amateur). They also purchased 30 new Crown IV's just to accommodate their serious players when the eastside closed. Their a diverse business that caters to the broadest range of clients. No other poolroom can say the same and frankly, there's no other room I'd rather play in.

If you're willing to go to Queens, you'll be surprised to know that the scene is still there. Masters & Racks have both been mentioned but Carom Cafe is tops on my "if you're willing to travel" list. Let's not also forget to mention Spin City that maintains a clean and respectable place and Steinway & Olympia Billiards in Astoria. All of these rooms routinely have tournaments and do what they can to accommodate the serious poolplayer.

 

[bruin70]

How can you possibly say that a "poolplayer's poolhall" is missing in New York? Master Billiards on Queens Blvd.

because everything outside of manhattan(aka new york city) is another country!!

 

[bruin70]

It's economics. Pool rooms don't make enough money on table time. The owners have figured out that players spending 10 bucks an hour for 2 hours is not as lucrative as 4 yuppies running up a $200 bar tab in 2 hours + the table time. The yuppies like loud music and good times, and really don't give a second thought to having an Aramith cue ball or Simonis 860.

I don't think there is an easy solution to the problem as it stands in NYC. With astronimical rents, the owners have to focus on their bottom line first, and then the players. One byproduct is that the best time for the players to play is during daylight hours. Unfortunately, most j*bs are during daylight hours...

IMO, the best pool hall for players in NYC is Racks (in Astoria). Too bad it isn't in a prime location, or easy to get to from Manhattan. As a backup, I give Corner Billiards a thumbs up (despite their mediocre attempt at finding the middle ground between a bar with tables and a poolhall with a bar...)

-td

i was there once long ago. very very nice. location is safe and semi residential. unless you drive, you have to walk. my big complaint was that it had "slate"-type lighting,,,ie,,,too dark and yuppie-moody.

has that changed?

 

[lewdo26]

How can you possibly say that a "poolplayer's poolhall" is missing in New York? Master Billiards on Queens Blvd is open 24 hours, has good equipment (tight tables, billiard tables, snooker tables), doesn't have loud music, has plenty of open tournaments, and has tons of action in all pool games, and most certainly does not attract a party crowd. In addition, it is by no means a "ghetto room", either.

I find it hard to believe that you are a hard-core player/gambler in NYC if you don't play there.

BP9B, as I've stated before on this forum, I do think Master is the most undiluted poolhall in this city. Pool culture in New York has moved to Queens. So we're in agreement on that. I doubt, however, that Master would compare to the Chelsea Billiards of old.

I also wanted to say that maybe my previous post was a little too jaded. Amsterdam Billiards is a great place, where I've met some wonderful people and frequently get to see top flight pool and play on good equipment. That being said, I cannot pretend that the nightclub element doesn't annoy me. I'm also not much on the idea of "clean", upscale poolhalls where gambling is close to non-existent. Not because I'm "a hard-core player/gambler", but because I think where you've found gambling, you've found an undiluted poolplayer's poolhall.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

BP9B, as I've stated before on this forum, I do think Master is the most undiluted poolhall in this city. Pool culture in New York has moved to Queens. So we're in agreement on that. I doubt, however, that Master would compare to the Chelsea Billiards of old.

I also wanted to say that maybe my previous post was a little too jaded. Amsterdam Billiards is a great place, where I've met some wonderful people and frequently get to see top flight pool and play on good equipment. That being said, I cannot pretend that the nightclub element doesn't annoy me. I'm also not much on the idea of "clean", upscale poolhalls where gambling is close to non-existent. Not because I'm "a hard-core player/gambler", but because I think where you've found gambling, you've found an undiluted poolplayer's poolhall.

LOL, I'll be happy to help you find some gambling at Amsterdam.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

BP9B, as I've stated before on this forum, I do think Master is the most undiluted poolhall in this city. Pool culture in New York has moved to Queens. So we're in agreement on that. I doubt, however, that Master would compare to the Chelsea Billiards of old.

I also wanted to say that maybe my previous post was a little too jaded. Amsterdam Billiards is a great place, where I've met some wonderful people and frequently get to see top flight pool and play on good equipment. That being said, I cannot pretend that the nightclub element doesn't annoy me. I'm also not much on the idea of "clean", upscale poolhalls where gambling is close to non-existent. Not because I'm "a hard-core player/gambler", but because I think where you've found gambling, you've found an undiluted poolplayer's poolhall.

With all seriousness, Amsterdam does have its gambling. It's just not barked across the room like they do at Masters. It's a private matter that gets settled discreetly. It's no where near the frequency the eastside location had but it's picking up.

 

[cheemagun]

Masters: wed open tournament. flaco franki jalepeno joey k the kid that works there. thurs handicap tournament. most of the action is there. prices are ok. good tables.

Racks: a BIG monday tournament. tables are not that cheap. cheaper then nyc. tabes suck. they roll towards the cushions.

i usually play in brooklyn. and these are the prices i play to practice

Hall of Fame. balukas place. 4 bucks for me to practice a hour. tables are solid. pool room is huge. i think its gold crown 1's ???? im not sure. equipment is good. cloth is not simones and its kinda slow. no real action.

i also play at this other place on 8th ave. they have a couple of gold crown 4's there. i know the owner so i get it for cheap. no action tho.

status. its 3 or 4 bucks an hour for me to practice on gold crown 4's. no real action.

and i go to bdway in nyc somtimes. gold crown 3's. 5 bucks an hour. ghetto pool hall. its nasti and you feel dirty in there. a bit of action.

 

[lewdo26]

With all seriousness, Amsterdam does have its gambling. It's just not barked across the room like they do at Masters. It's a private matter that gets settled discreetly. It's no where near the frequency the eastside location had but it's picking up.

Jude, in all seriousness, I'm aware some action takes place at ABC as I've witnessed some of it. I would also guess that some of it takes place in the VIP room and escapes my attention (too bad, no rail money). Still, ABC is not exactly what we would call an action room. A great place, but not an action room. That's my only point. I would also venture to say that the action takes place discretely because it does not go with the upscale poolhall image.

 

[sjm]

ABC is not exactly what we would call an action room. A great place, but not an action room. That's my only point.

And it's an accurate point, Lewdo.

As many have noted, the action scene is nearly non-existent in Manhattan. Unlike others in this thread, however, I say good riddance to the Manhattan action scene. May it remain in Queens forever.

There is no need for a "players room" in Manhattan. Such a room would cater to a group that has a long and pronounced history of being small spenders and low net-worth individuals. Several have pointed out, quite correctly, that rents are high in Manhattan and catering to those who actually spend some real money when they visit a poolroom is the only route to long-term success.

Nobody shows more skill in running a great poolroom in Manhattan than Greg Hunt, proprietor of the Amsterdam Billiard Club West. Amsterdam West is the perfect poolroom for Manhattan. Beautiful decor, a lounge, and an ambience that make being there a real treat. Also, an open bar with a big screen for sports and TVs (without sound) all over the poolroom.

Yes, there are plenty of yuppies there, but, in my opinion, they don't get in the way of the more serious players, many of whom play very well, but most of whom are happy to play just for the thrill of it. The good players don't prey on each other, and everybody seems to like everybody else. The result is a great pool playing experience and a very congenial atmosphere.

To anyone that can't live without the action, you can get to Master Billiards in Queens in fifteen minutes from Grand Central Station by taking the 7 train.

Despite the many good memories that many of us (myself included) have of the place, I'm hoping that nothing reminiscent of the old Chelsea Billiards pops up anytime soon in Manhattan.

 

[deadstroke32]

And it's an accurate point, Lewdo.

As many have noted, the action scene is nearly non-existent in Manhattan. Unlike others in this thread, however, I say good riddance to the Manhattan action scene. May it remain in Queens forever.

There is no need for a "players room" in Manhattan. Such a room would cater to a group that has a long and pronounced history of being small spenders and low net-worth individuals. Several have pointed out, quite correctly, that rents are high in Manhattan and catering to those who actually spend some real money when they visit a poolroom is the only route to long-term success.

Nobody shows more skill in running a great poolroom in Manhattan than Greg Hunt, proprietor of the Amsterdam Billiard Club West. Amsterdam West is the perfect poolroom for Manhattan. Beautiful decor, a lounge, and an ambience that make being there a real treat. Also, an open bar with a big screen for sports and TVs (without sound) all over the poolroom.

Yes, there are plenty of yuppies there, but, in my opinion, they don't get in the way of the more serious players, many of whom play very well, but most of whom are happy to play just for the thrill of it. The good players don't prey on each other, and everybody seems to like everybody else. The result is a great pool playing experience and a very congenial atmosphere.

To anyone that can't live without the action, you can get to Master Billiards in Queens in fifteen minutes from Grand Central Station by taking the 7 train.

Despite the many good memories that many of us (myself included) have of the place, I'm hoping that nothing reminiscent of the old Chelsea Billiards pops up anytime soon in Manhattan.

I'm from NYC and i'll tell u this, I miss home jus cause the action was sick .Make a Game and play .Chelsa was a Jam up room .I played the tourments and gamble a little ,But anytime of the day or nite there was action .So u can never find a better room then that ..Now ABC west .i was jus up there, and there was some action but nothing to call home about .i got some 14.1 action but that was all..And ( Jude) don't Call out peoples name on this .I Don't know if Chris would like his mane put into this ...But we can always ask him .Jude" u should know better.. But that cool( cause u and him r friends Right ?) .Jude hope we can play next time i come to Abc ..i'll be there in June,,Get back to me and see what we can get into.. ..

 

[lewdo26]

As many have noted, the action scene is nearly non-existent in Manhattan. Unlike others in this thread, however, I say good riddance to the Manhattan action scene. May it remain in Queens forever.

There is no need for a "players room" in Manhattan. Such a room would cater to a group that has a long and pronounced history of being small spenders and low net-worth individuals. Several have pointed out, quite correctly, that rents are high in Manhattan and catering to those who actually spend some real money when they visit a poolroom is the only route to long-term success.

Despite the many good memories that many of us (myself included) have of the place, I'm hoping that nothing reminiscent of the old Chelsea Billiards pops up anytime soon in Manhattan.

Hey, sjm. Good to hear your input on this thread. I will only disagree with one point brought up in your post. Like you, I think ABC is the type of poolroom which will survive the Manhattan real estate market due to its ability to attract a mix of perpetual and recreational players alike (the latter group being where the money is). That's all fine and great!

However, I'm saddened by what's become of Manhattan in general... I don't think that the fact an entire borough has become an emporium for big spenders is an unqualified reason for celebration. Though, I understand, it's good for the bottom line.

That tendency has a lot to do with the reason why so many New Yorkers have become disafected from it. And, in saying good riddance to establishments like Chelsea Billiards, you are also saying good riddance to some of the people who have made New York such a colorful place throughout its history.

 

[sjm]

...in saying good riddance to establishments like Chelsea Billiards, you are also saying good riddance to some of the people who have made New York such a colorful place throughout its history.

That's not really true, Lewdo.

Most of the old Chelsea crowd play at either Corner Billiards, Broadway Billiards, Master Billiards, or Amsterdam Billiards now. Most of those who often played at Chelsea are still in our midst. Also, let's not forget that the New York City action scene died long before Chelsea Billiards closed.

I do understand your lament about the fact that Manahattan has, at least to some extent, become an emporium for big spenders, though I think "emporium for big spenders willing and accustomed to paying a premium price for a premium product, service or experience" would have been more accurate.

Changing times and economic conditions have transformed and continue to transform Manahttan, but Chelsea Billiards and the culture that it represented, obsolete in Manahttan, are part of NYC nostalgia. Like so many other aspects of NYC nostaliga, it can be pleasant to reflect on. Good memories are for keeps.