ok, you tell me what to do

prewarhero

prewarhero

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Silver Member
I have been using my mottey cue that i love, with ivory ferrules. However, I fear I am getting a lot of deflection. I never once cared a damm about deflection before now. So, i was thinking of going with a predator shaft. But I learned from this group that a 314 w/ an ivory ferrule is immposible. Fair enough. Is there anyway I can do either of the following.
Use an ivory ferrule in some way and get less deflection
or
Get a different shaft from another cue maker that makes a radial type shaft and use an ivory ferrule and still have less deflection than what i have now,
or
do i basically have to decide between my current shaft and a 314 with their standard ferrules?
Thanks,
Jordan
 
Go visit ww.viattorre.com and read the testimonials by the customers. They said that the shaft is as good or even better than the 314 shaft. Maybe you can order one from Jack but it may be quite dangerous. You might not like it when you get it, so maybe look for one and try it out first.
 
I_Luv_This_Game said:
Go visit ww.viattorre.com and read the testimonials by the customers. They said that the shaft is as good or even better than the 314 shaft. Maybe you can order one from Jack but it may be quite dangerous. You might not like it when you get it, so maybe look for one and try it out first.
Click to expand...

you bring up a good point. I was hanging out on the easy pool tutor chat room, and i know they have some type of deal with each other, but it seemed that everyone, and i mean everyone in the chat room has all ordered one and loved it (cues i mean) or were on the waiting list. And some really seemed to know their stuff. Not just newbies. I have never seen nor hit with one, but hey. Is this guy another zyrl? I will call him and see what he says.

I owened a dp-r shaft once and didn't really fall in love with it's hit. Nevermind the deflection or what not, but the hit just wasn't grabbin me. it felt more like my old mcdermott than anything else. So.......
Oh well, thanks
Jordan
 
Did you try a plain Predator shaft yet? Or are you determined to have an ivory ferrule without having tried the shaft? Make sure the shaft has the same tip that you are used to for a fair hit comparison. I have several Predator shafts that I tried different tips on. I can go from a nice soft hit to a very hard hit just by changing the tip.

The pie shaped laminations have nothing to do with the Predator shaft's lower deflection. The shaft is hollow for the first 5 inches which reduces the weight in the front of the shaft. That is what reduces the deflection. Their ferrule is also significantly softer than any other on the market. You can read their patents if you are really interested.
 
clear-head

prewarhero said:
I have been using my mottey cue that i love, with ivory ferrules. However, I fear I am getting a lot of deflection. I never once cared a damm about deflection before now. So, i was thinking of going with a predator shaft. But I learned from this group that a 314 w/ an ivory ferrule is immposible. Fair enough. Is there anyway I can do either of the following.
Use an ivory ferrule in some way and get less deflection
or
Get a different shaft from another cue maker that makes a radial type shaft and use an ivory ferrule and still have less deflection than what i have now,
or
do i basically have to decide between my current shaft and a 314 with their standard ferrules?
Thanks,
Jordan
Click to expand...
Jordan, just clear your mind of all the crap you read [ por's and cons] and go about pocketing balls.
blud
 
I Think Blud is right.. Last evening I played with my predator 314 which I love ,but struggled, then changed to one of my ivory ferrule shafts and played terrific. We were playing 9 ball to warm up then straight pool my favorite game. You just go to go with what works, stay down and watch the ball..
 
prewarhero said:
I have been using my mottey cue that i love, with ivory ferrules. However, I fear I am getting a lot of deflection. I never once cared a damm about deflection before now. So, i was thinking of going with a predator shaft. But I learned from this group that a 314 w/ an ivory ferrule is immposible. Fair enough. Is there anyway I can do either of the following.
Use an ivory ferrule in some way and get less deflection
or
Get a different shaft from another cue maker that makes a radial type shaft and use an ivory ferrule and still have less deflection than what i have now,
or
do i basically have to decide between my current shaft and a 314 with their standard ferrules?
Thanks,
Jordan
Click to expand...

You just have to adjust to the hit of the ivory ferrule when applying left or right english. Having radial laminated shafts is not a concern here. either you aim thicker or thinner depending on the english you apply and the stroke you have plus the speed or power too.

In my experience, ivory ferrules deflect the cue ball more than composite ferrules. IMO, hard ferrule materials deflect more than softer ones.

Fact of the matter is, deflection will always be there and those who claim to have zero deflection on their shaft is crap.

The best thing for us players to do is get used to it, in this case you have to learn how to compensate for deflection :cool:
 
I play with ivory ferrules and joint. I have no trouble with deflection. I even switch shots with a predator that belongs to a friend. I can't switch using a shaft with another kind of ferrule so I have to disagree about the ivory deflecting more. And I use a fiber pad under the tip. I would never do an ivory ferrule with out it. I'm sure people will disagree about the fiber pads but most cue makers who understand deflection and ivory will insist on the pad.
 
pad

Michael Webb said:
I play with ivory ferrules and joint. I have no trouble with deflection. I even switch shots with a predator that belongs to a friend. I can't switch using a shaft with another kind of ferrule so I have to disagree about the ivory deflecting more. And I use a fiber pad under the tip. I would never do an ivory ferrule with out it. I'm sure people will disagree about the fiber pads but most cue makers who understand deflection and ivory will insist on the pad.
Click to expand...

Hi Mike, yes I disagree. The pad was used in the past and put on to keep the ferrule from cracking. To me, it muffles the hit, feel and does not deliver the true ivory hit and feel. So, with a pad, why have ivory? The pad just takes away the hit and feel and action of ivory.
Works for me and my crew.
It's all in what one, likes.
Adjustments, come easy after a while.
blud
 
Now you know I posted that knowing that you would reply. We are very good friends but that doesn't mean we will agree on every thing. Different strokes for different folks but still very good products. I will not today or ever put an ivory ferrule on with out the pad. It doesn't mean I'm wrong, just different. I have done a lot of research on deflection, for my cues and my repairs, If it's ivory they get the pad.
To quote your own words
WORKS FOR ME!
 
Thanks so much to all of you for all your input. I would agree Blud, I SHOULD just pocket balls. But, I can't seem to tear myself away from the concern of the best equipment that works for me. I went from one cue to another, gradually rising in quality. I would find a few things here and there that i noticed I liked or did not. BUt now as my game has become more solid and I can attribute certain things on the table to its cause I am focusing more on things like tip/ferrule/joint/ and junk.... They say old habbits are hard to break, one being I grab my cue in the butt a little to strong. Tried to change can't. I know I needed a softer tip to help with english I was loosing from my grip.
I have been playing with this mottey for several hundred hours of table time. When I miss shots now, it is for two reasons. One, improper pre-shot routine or deflection. I never worried about deflection before because I would rarley attribute a miss to it. BUt this cue is causing more than I care to admit. I assume it was the ferrules but for some reason (maybe only god knows why) I just don't shoot that straight with it. When I tried another cue (A jensen with a 314) I was pocketing those long tough shots with ease (dead center of pocket). The cue was stiffer, longer taper, shorter, and softer ferrule and lighter weight. Can any of those other factors make the difference?

I can't see anything below the shaft having any effect so I want to play around with shaft, ferrule and tip idears.
That is why I come to you cuemakers and you just aren't any old cuemakers you guys are the best. So again,
Please take the time to help me with my ills.
Thanks so much
Jordan
 
prewarhero:
Every thing you mentioned makes a difference. Mottey cues are one of the best you could choose. I suggest you have the shafts turned to 12.75 mm with moori mediums with a pad. Lengthen the taper a little more. I have done this for others with good results. It is also possible that your personal mechanics require a Predator. Only you can decide what is best for your game.
 
First of all, I wouldn't put a pad under the ferrule. I put it under the tip, and whether it muffles the sound or not, if deflects less.
 
Joseph Cues said:
Jordan, where does your Mottey shaft flex?
Is it whippy or stiff, if I might ask.
Click to expand...
I dont know where it flexes but i think it is not very stiff at all.

Mike, you are right on. I think the taper needs to be lowered and I did notice that the 13mm was too big. a 12.75 is a great idea. Thanks again
Jordan
 
prewarhero said:
I dont know where it flexes but i think it is not very stiff at all.

Mike, you are right on. I think the taper needs to be lowered and I did notice that the 13mm was too big. a 12.75 is a great idea. Thanks again
Jordan
Click to expand...

The things you mentioned a few post ago about the ferrule, tips etc. were also the same observations I had when I tried to fine tune my aim.

If I shot with a predator 314 applying say inside english and fine tuned my aim at that and then take the same shot with a shaft with ivory ferrule and aim exactly where I do with a 314 and I can't pocket the ball. Same as when I do that with an ivory ferrule then switching to a 314... has anyone tried this?
 
works

Michael Webb said:
Now you know I posted that knowing that you would reply. We are very good friends but that doesn't mean we will agree on every thing. Different strokes for different folks but still very good products. I will not today or ever put an ivory ferrule on with out the pad. It doesn't mean I'm wrong, just different. I have done a lot of research on deflection, for my cues and my repairs, If it's ivory they get the pad.
To quote your own words
WORKS FOR ME!
Click to expand...

Hey Mike, we been friends to long to have a problem. It ain't broke don't fix it.

I, too have done much research over the last 50 years or so.This also includes my 33 years at repairing and building cues.

My problem with pads, is that they do in fact "muffle" the hit of ivory. Think about it, it's got to. So, if you cover up the "hit" why have ivory in the first place.

Maybe have ivory for it's clean look, with a pad attached. Ivory with a pad will not produce the same clean hit and feel, much less the action is gives off.

All ferrules deflect. Some more than others, I am sure

Ivory has it's own hit, feel and sound.It also deflects differantly than other materials.
After using ivory without a fiber pad, one will get accoustomed to it just as fast as using a pad. But, with a pad, you do change the feel, hit, and sound.

So why cap the ivory? Capping it, does change the feel, sound, and hit. If the pads are used to help with deflection, why use an ivory to start with? Use something else.

I personally like the ivory hit, sound and feel. I have tired ivory with a pad also. It plays differantly with a pad, and produces a "thud" or dead sound and hit. Not clean and crisp as without a pad. I have had many ask for pads, and after I explained my findings, they for the most part, went with my advice. No pads..If a customer ask for one, he gets it.
Just my opinion.
blud
 
words

blud said:
Hey Mike, we been friends to long to have a problem. It ain't broke don't fix it.

I, too have done much research over the last 50 years or so.This also includes my 33 years at repairing and building cues.

My problem with pads, is that they do in fact "muffle" the hit of ivory. Think about it, it's got to. So, if you cover up the "hit" why have ivory in the first place.

Maybe have ivory for it's clean look, with a pad attached. Ivory with a pad will not produce the same clean hit and feel, much less the action is gives off.

All ferrules deflect. Some more than others, I am sure

Ivory has it's own hit, feel and sound.It also deflects differantly than other materials.
After using ivory without a fiber pad, one will get accoustomed to it just as fast as using a pad. But, with a pad, you do change the feel, hit, and sound.

So why cap the ivory? Capping it, does change the feel, sound, and hit. If the pads are used to help with deflection, why use an ivory to start with? Use something else.

I personally like the ivory hit, sound and feel. I have tired ivory with a pad also. It plays differantly with a pad, and produces a "thud" or dead sound and hit. Not clean and crisp as without a pad. I have had many ask for pads, and after I explained my findings, they for the most part, went with my advice. No pads..If a customer ask for one, he gets it.
Just my opinion.
blud
Click to expand...


I wish I could spell good and not have so many typeo's

blud
 
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