old school fundamentals

mindtriplx

mindtriplx

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
i was watching the classic pool on espn today and was it just me or did their fundamentals seem much diff then the players we see today. they held the cue right at the front at the rap today most people hold it at he end. and one guy used tons of spin even on a straight in 9 ball shot. is this because they were used to playing straight pool or have times just changed? someone clue me in.
thanks
greg
 
your very observant. yes, you are correct, they held their grip hand at the very front of the wrap. why? because their whole life they played nothing but straight pool, and as you may know, the name of that game, is "don't move the cueball, if you don't have to" in fact, several top players like mosconi, played rack upon rack, with 3 inch shots! so, holding it that way, gives them less power, softer strokes, less speed, etc.etc. you'll also notice to coinciede with the high grip, the amount of cue stick from the tip to the bridge hand was only 4 inches tops! for less speed and less power. also, they almost never played open bridge, almost always closed, men felt, it was for beginers to use open bridges, but in 1993 when the world invasion happened, and gerda,souquet, and the rest happend, we knew better that open bridge is nice as well. very different techniques indeed. conclusion, they would kill any player on earth today in straight pool, however the top 9-ball players today, would kill them in 9-ball.
 
THE SILENCER said:
your very observant. yes, you are correct, they held their grip hand at the very front of the wrap. why? because their whole life they played nothing but straight pool, and as you may know, the name of that game, is "don't move the cueball, if you don't have to" in fact, several top players like mosconi, played rack upon rack, with 3 inch shots! so, holding it that way, gives them less power, softer strokes, less speed, etc.etc. you'll also notice to coinciede with the high grip, the amount of cue stick from the tip to the bridge hand was only 4 inches tops! for less speed and less power. also, they almost never played open bridge, almost always closed, men felt, it was for beginers to use open bridges, but in 1993 when the world invasion happened, and gerda,souquet, and the rest happend, we knew better that open bridge is nice as well. very different techniques indeed. conclusion, they would kill any player on earth today in straight pool, however the top 9-ball players today, would kill them in 9-ball.
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Bernie...Not to rain on your parade, but you're much too young to make comments like this. First of all, you say this generation of players didn't play anything but straight pool? Nonsense! The older generation of 9-ball players, like Wimpy, UJ, Jersey Red, Cornbread, Cowboy Jimmy Moore, and far too many others I could mention, who were top-flight 9-ball players, would wipe the floor with today's players. Those guys were playing for the rent, and every 9-ball was a jug of milk, or a loaf of bread. If they missed, their families went hungry...they didn't miss very often. They also played on MUCH tougher equipment, and didn't have the benefit of today's 'high-tech' balls and cues. They were "in combat" and playing for their very lives. Also your comment about their short bridges is WAY off. If you watched UJ play at all, you saw him playing with a 10" bridge...which was, and still is, common for players over 6' tall (UJ was 6'3", not including the hat!). Mosconi played with a short bridge (usually about 6"), but he was only 5'3". Today, many young players play with a very long bridge, trying to emulate the 'swoopy' strokes of the Filipino players...and usually to their detriment. A longer bridge will often result in mishitting the cueball, since the pivot point of the bridge is so far back. You must have an extremely straight and sure stroke to play with an unusually long bridge (12-15"). Although you saw a closed bridge for many shots on tv from those classic matches, the players of that era, whether gambling or playing tournaments, still swapped back and forth, from open to closed bridge...just like the top players today. I know...I was there to see them.

Scott Lee
 
mindtriplx said:
i was watching the classic pool on espn today and was it just me or did their fundamentals seem much diff then the players we see today. they held the cue right at the front at the rap today most people hold it at he end.
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I noticed this, too. A lot of them used a slip stroke. By this I mean that on the last stroke the back hand was moved back on the butt and then the final stroke was made to hit the ball. Let me go review one of the matches, wait here... Ok, I'm back, thanks for waiting. In the Mosconi/Moore match, 2nd game there is a shot of Moscone shooting the three in which you can clearly see the slip stroke. On the last stroke he moves his hand back about 4-5" and then shoots the balls.
 
just wondering because i hear so many diff things from so many people and i respect peoples opinion here. were do you guys hold the stick and how long of a bridge do you guys use mostly for 9-ball. most people say near the end and 9 in". i see many pros do it, but are there any top players that hold it middle or front mostly??
 
mindtriplx said:
i was watching the classic pool on espn today and was it just me or did their fundamentals seem much diff then the players we see today. they held the cue right at the front at the rap today most people hold it at he end. and one guy used tons of spin even on a straight in 9 ball shot. is this because they were used to playing straight pool or have times just changed? someone clue me in.
thanks
greg
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I haven't been watching but ... some older players don't get their head down real close to the stick because, well, they're older. A more erect stance will cause the back hand to be farther forward.

--one possible cause
 
be careful of emulating

mindtriplx said:
just wondering because i hear so many diff things from so many people and i respect peoples opinion here. were do you guys hold the stick and how long of a bridge do you guys use mostly for 9-ball. most people say near the end and 9 in". i see many pros do it, but are there any top players that hold it middle or front mostly??
Click to expand...

i am a filipino player and i advice you to find what's comfortable for you and where you feel you are confident all the time thus it will come to you and consistency will follow. although thre are lots of shots that require adjustments on your grip placement. regarding the swoopy filipino stroke that was mentioned by scott lee, if you ahve the chance to visit the philippines you will see bridges longer than 12 inches but they can beat the hell out of the likes of chamat,immonen, soquet you name it. there are filipino players here who work underground from the pool scene. these players are so underrated you will be amazed why they were'nt given the chance like the other filipino pool heroes. mika immonen improved his game when he stayed in the philippines for a little less than a year and thats every year that is. if you notice his bridge was becoming more filipino more swoopy and he has become more relaxed and loose. thus his game became better and much more solid. if you want to become good train here or in taipei. you will be amazed how fast you'd improve. lots of malaysians and singaporeans rent houses here for a year or two just to study our style and when they go back to their countries they always say they will comeback for more.:)
 
Scott,
I watched the match between Deacon and Wimpy, and what surprised me was how Wimpy seemed to not only come up out of the shot early, but his tip almost always seemed to end up in the air. I never studied the older players that much. Was this typical of his style?
Steve
 
Wimpy was 63 when these matches were played. Pretty much at the end of his career. This is not at the height of their playing ability. Every player has their own stroke. If you watch Allen Hopkins stroke, you'd think he can't play a lick.{he played great pool in the 80's and still hits em pretty good. Look at Buddy Hall, Efren, Corey,Keith. They are all individuals and their stroke varies. A lot of the Philipino's strokes look similar, but Parica's don't look long and swoopy.. Sam

Whatever it takes to get the job done.....
 
diablo said:
i am a filipino player and i advice you to find what's comfortable for you and where you feel you are confident all the time thus it will come to you and consistency will follow. although thre are lots of shots that require adjustments on your grip placement. regarding the swoopy filipino stroke that was mentioned by scott lee, if you ahve the chance to visit the philippines you will see bridges longer than 12 inches but they can beat the hell out of the likes of chamat,immonen, soquet you name it. there are filipino players here who work underground from the pool scene. these players are so underrated you will be amazed why they were'nt given the chance like the other filipino pool heroes. mika immonen improved his game when he stayed in the philippines for a little less than a year and thats every year that is. if you notice his bridge was becoming more filipino more swoopy and he has become more relaxed and loose. thus his game became better and much more solid. if you want to become good train here or in taipei. you will be amazed how fast you'd improve. lots of malaysians and singaporeans rent houses here for a year or two just to study our style and when they go back to their countries they always say they will comeback for more.:)
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Diablo,

It's funny you say that about Mika. I have watched him play for the last 5 years or so. In March I saw him play at Valley Forge in the Brunswick tourny and went to his new room. His stroke is absolutely more loopy and I thought nobody noticed. I sure did. He played really loose and strong. Probably the strongest that I saw that weekend, just the balls didn't roll right for him (he beat Corey Deuel 10-1 though). When was he in the Philippines? I didn't know he left NYC.
On another note about the older players, none of them have their chin anywhere near the cue. I know that they are old now and not very flexible but they never played that low on the cue. It was the snooker players that made that popular. My grandfather was and still is a very good player, but he stands very erect to shoot. Flips me out man! How the hell do you pocket a 9 ft. cut standing up?
 
CueHunter said:
Diablo,

It's funny you say that about Mika. I have watched him play for the last 5 years or so. In March I saw him play at Valley Forge in the Brunswick tourny and went to his new room. His stroke is absolutely more loopy and I thought nobody noticed. I sure did. He played really loose and strong. Probably the strongest that I saw that weekend, just the balls didn't roll right for him (he beat Corey Deuel 10-1 though). When was he in the Philippines? I didn't know he left NYC.
On another note about the older players, none of them have their chin anywhere near the cue. I know that they are old now and not very flexible but they never played that low on the cue. It was the snooker players that made that popular. My grandfather was and still is a very good player, but he stands very erect to shoot. Flips me out man! How the hell do you pocket a 9 ft. cut standing up?
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just a side note. Mikka is always here in the Philippines every year he owns a club in Manila and he likes goign to Boracay beach in the South.
 
Try standing up a little more than you usually do and see how comfortable you shooting arm is. You can get a lot more stroke, imho, by standing up just a little. I knew this guy in Southern Cal in the 80's, John (a Mexican guy that they also called the "Cayote") and he stood straight up and his cb control was phinominal!

I've heard that the "slip" stroke works just as you have described it Frank. If that's the case, and I've tried it and can't do it, what do you call letting the cue slip through your bridge a little when you shoot?
 
Rickw said:
I've heard that the "slip" stroke works just as you have described it Frank. If that's the case, and I've tried it and can't do it, what do you call letting the cue slip through your bridge a little when you shoot?
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I don't know. I have heard of people doing this, but I hold the cue pretty loose, and it doesn't do this.
 
There seems to be a recurring theme of mystery players in the Phillipines who will drill anyone on earth but other than Antonio Lining, I have never heard of any of these guys beating champions. I don't mean US tourneys because the costs would be prohibitive to get here,but there are some big payouts in Asia these days and it seems that it still Efren,Busta, etc... who are winning , not some other player. Efren is the greatest player on Earth but Ralf Souquet has done well against him in both nine ball and straight pool. Anyone have some other players in mind who can beat Souqet?
 
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