Older players vs newer players

Bobby said:
That's quite a bit exaggerated, he may play the best 3 cushion players in the world but he certainly doesn't play anywhere near their speed. The top 3-c players play at about a 1.8 - 2.0 avg. Efren is a 1.0 or 1.1.
that's still an edge though over other pool players.

And I know someone is going to say he's the best straight rail and balkline billiards player in the world and that is simply not true not even close to being true, I don't know how those rumors get started. There are amatuer billiard players that beat him at those games.
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I read somewhere that Efren himself thinks his best game is balkline. Not 1-pocket, not straight pool, but balkline.
 
Hard for me..,

The old timers ALWAYS say the old players were better.....Maybe Ronnie Allen was something, but when I saw him play he was WELLLL past his prime.

Im middle aged so I saw the old players at the end of the careers, and the new guys make me think, "HOW COULD ANYONE BE BETTER THAN THAT?"

Efren is the best all around player I have ever seen.

Is he better than everyone else or just the best I have seen?

Earl and Efren IMO were the best near the same time at nine ball.

Efren is the best one pocket player I have EVER seen.

JMO

Ken
 
Renegade said:
I read somewhere that Efren himself thinks his best game is balkline. Not 1-pocket, not straight pool, but balkline.
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I don't know why he'd think that balkline is his best game because he's light years behind Frederic Caudron who is considered not only far and away the best balkline player today but best balkline player ever.

maybe he was referring to another billiard type of game I've heard he played in the philipenes? I don't know how it's played exactly but it's similar to billiards.
 
Richardson said:
I'll take Steve Mizerak and bet it all.


No disrespect to the other players but at one time or another he was a top player at 9ball and 14.1 and was a very good 1pkt player.
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Steve Mizeak deserved that! ;)
 
Bobby said:
I don't know why he'd think that balkline is his best game because he's light years behind Frederic Caudron who is considered not only far and away the best balkline player today but best balkline player ever.

maybe he was referring to another billiard type of game I've heard he played in the philipenes? I don't know how it's played exactly but it's similar to billiards.
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You are correct; my mistake. Here it is from the horse's mouth:

"Efren: Since I started playing pool at the age of 8, rotation has been the most popular game until the early 90's when 9 ball started to become popular. Rotation is one of my two favorite games. To win, one has to score 61 points. The lowest ball on the table is the object ball and the ball is worth its points. My other favorite game is 18-1 balkline which is billiards. In this game, the playing surface is subdivided into grids. There is one big center grid and those side grids. All 3 carom balls can only be inside a side grid one time. However, the 3 balls can still be inside the same grid but one of the balls must exit the grid before regrouping inside the same grid. There isn't much money to make in carom billiards though and that is why I tried to learn other games like 9 ball and one pocket. My weakest game is 9 ball because you need a lot of weight to be able to break good which obviously I don't have. "

You can read the rest here: http://www.azbilliards.com/interviews/efrenreyes.cfm
 
Renegade said:
You are correct; my mistake. Here it is from the horse's mouth:

"Efren: Since I started playing pool at the age of 8, rotation has been the most popular game until the early 90's when 9 ball started to become popular. Rotation is one of my two favorite games. To win, one has to score 61 points. The lowest ball on the table is the object ball and the ball is worth its points. My other favorite game is 18-1 balkline which is billiards. In this game, the playing surface is subdivided into grids. There is one big center grid and those side grids. All 3 carom balls can only be inside a side grid one time. However, the 3 balls can still be inside the same grid but one of the balls must exit the grid before regrouping inside the same grid. There isn't much money to make in carom billiards though and that is why I tried to learn other games like 9 ball and one pocket. My weakest game is 9 ball because you need a lot of weight to be able to break good which obviously I don't have. "

You can read the rest here: http://www.azbilliards.com/interviews/efrenreyes.cfm
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Actually that is regular balkline billiards, which Frederic Caudron is the greatest at by far. It said it was Efren's favorite game not his best game.

By the way, I think that if Efren had dedicated his life to billiards he would be a champion at that too.
 
Bobby said:
That's quite a bit exaggerated, he may play the best 3 cushion players in the world but he certainly doesn't play anywhere near their speed. The top 3-c players play at about a 1.8 - 2.0 avg. Efren is a 1.0 or 1.1.
that's still an edge though over other pool players.

And I know someone is going to say he's the best straight rail and balkline billiards player in the world and that is simply not true not even close to being true, I don't know how those rumors get started. There are amatuer billiard players that beat him at those games.
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I never said he was one of the best. Simply that he gets down with 'em. And that is fairly well know. What pool player in the US has done that in the last 20 years? That was my point. To say he is world class at billiards at this point would be a joke. No offense to him, as he has played guys like Bloomdahl(sp?), etc, but he isn't in their caliber. Having said that, he has played 2 ways with more than a couple and came out ahead, from what I understand. What I was saying is that there is little comparison between him and most pool players in the billiards discipline.
 
muttley76 said:
I never said he was one of the best. Simply that he gets down with 'em. And that is fairly well know. What pool player in the US has done that in the last 20 years? That was my point. To say he is world class at billiards at this point would be a joke. No offense to him, as he has played guys like Bloomdahl(sp?), etc, but he isn't in their caliber. Having said that, he has played 2 ways with more than a couple and came out ahead, from what I understand. What I was saying is that there is little comparison between him and most pool players in the billiards discipline.
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I agree 100% that no pool player can touch him in billiards....although I haven't seen every pool player actually play billiards, I trust we'd have heard if any pool player can play it that well.
 
I only know of a couple that have even tried. I personally love 3 cushion, but would never be any good at it, as I have this nasty habit of aiming the first ball at pockets that aren't even there, lol. I think most guys who have played anywhere near as much pool as I have would probably have the same problem. Plus, the lack of tables within 100 miles of where I live is a bit of an issue, lol.
 
muttley76 said:
I only know of a couple that have even tried. I personally love 3 cushion, but would never be any good at it, as I have this nasty habit of aiming the first ball at pockets that aren't even there, lol. I think most guys who have played anywhere near as much pool as I have would probably have the same problem. Plus, the lack of tables within 100 miles of where I live is a bit of an issue, lol.
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Yeah, billiards is definitely a game you have to play a lot to get used to. I've seen a couple of world class pool players play 3 cushion and believe me they looked like any other joe off the street. In fact, the amateur 3 cushion players who played in a 3 cushion league were watching them and they couldn't believe the basic mistakes they were making!
 
Bobby said:
Yeah, billiards is definitely a game you have to play a lot to get used to. I've seen a couple of world class pool players play 3 cushion and believe me they looked like any other joe off the street. In fact, the amateur 3 cushion players who played in a 3 cushion league were watching them and they couldn't believe the basic mistakes they were making!
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To me that is what makes the differences so interesting. There is usually 10 different ways to get the cue ball from point a to point b, but rarely is the best way(or second or third, lol)in one the best way in another. The patterns in each pool game tend to be different, the pattern play in billiards and pool are often light years apart, imo,
 
muttley76 said:
To me that is what makes the differences so interesting. There is usually 10 different ways to get the cue ball from point a to point b, but rarely is the best way(or second or third, lol)in one the best way in another. The patterns in each pool game tend to be different, the pattern play in billiards and pool are often light years apart, imo,
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It really is light years diffrent. Jeanette Lee was once practicing this 3-cushion shot and she asked Sang Lee "where on this rail (long rail) do I have to hit with my cue ball to make it hit this spot on the short rail. Sang Lee said "anywhere from here to here" he indicated two spots on the rail that were 3 feet apart! He said it depends on the english you're using. Jeanette was just dumbfounded, lol
 
tom mcgonagle said:
How about "Larry, Boston Shorty," Johnson. Not only a great nine-ball and one-pocket player, his three cushion skills may put him in a class of his own.
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Harold Worst was a 3-cushion world champion and a Johnston City all-around champion.
 
After playing pocket billiards basically my whole life I tried 3 rail more than a few times. To me, I just stare at the table and try to see the trails the balls will take while trying to make a billiard. My best is a 5......timid at best, but to me it was a 100 ball run!

Going down to the basement to make a few measurements.....maybe a 10'billiar table will fit :)


G.
 
Bobby said:
Actually that is regular balkline billiards, which Frederic Caudron is the greatest at by far. It said it was Efren's favorite game not his best game.

By the way, I think that if Efren had dedicated his life to billiards he would be a champion at that too.
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OIC, thanks for clearing that up. It just seemed to me that his favorite game would be his best game....guess that's not always true.
 
Renegade said:
OIC, thanks for clearing that up. It just seemed to me that his favorite game would be his best game....guess that's not always true.
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Yeah I think most people would agree that their favorite game is their best game but not everyone. My favorite game is one pocket but everyone that's seen me play will tell you that 9-ball is by far my best game.
 
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