Olhausen Grand Champion Questions??

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ndisgii

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Hello everyone, I am new here to the forums. I just got my addition to my home built and am ready to fill it with a new pool table. I am a big internet researcher and love to read through forums to here real world people talk about things, not advertisers. Any input you guys can provide would be greatly appreciated!

After reading so far, I am pretty sure I want to go with Olhausen, and my taste is more-so of the contemporary flavor, so my first choice was the Olhausen Waterfall. What I am finding a pain is the 'no price on the internet' policy. When I check for local dealers, I only found one close to me, so I went there and got pricing. What I was hoping for, is that you guys could tell me if the pricing seems fair or not. For those of you that may sell tables on here, I dont expect you to say what you pay or anything, but please be honest on if the pricing is good or not. If any of you by chance have the same models, please share what you paid for it if you dont mind.

Well, the price I got for the Waterfall was $5995 and that is delivered and setup. Seemed like a very good price for the model, but I really dont have anything to compare to. HOWEVER, what really got me excited because I think it might be a good deal, is an 8ft Grand Champion they had on the floor. He said he would give me a sweet deal on the floor model which is brand new. It has the chrome package on it already and has dark charcoal felt. I configured it on Olhausens website, and it looks exactly like this:

grandchampion.jpg


He said that he would let it go for $3995 delivered and setup, which is $1000 less than he normally sells them for. Is that a good price? And that was his first and only offer. I dont know if he will bargain even further or not? Please give me some input so I can sleep well and know I made a good choice. Thanks everyone and take care!
 
I don't think you will be happy if you go for the 8 foot if you have room to put a 9 foot up. Always get the larger table, it is better for your game. If it is purely for recreational fun, then get what you want. I am sure though you will get more enjoyment making that same great shot on a regulation table though, versus an 8 foot. I think a good analogy is a girl that goes in for a set of breast implants. She goes in thinking she wants a normal size, but statistics show that almost half go in for a second surgery for the upgrade! :cool: Get the bigger table the first time around, you'll never feel like you need to upgrade, you will always have the biggest!

I dont know how much they cost, or how much they should cost. Just wanted to comment about size choice! ;)

girlwon1
 
girlwon1 said:
I dont know how much they cost, or how much they should cost. Just wanted to comment about size choice! ;)

girlwon1
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Uhhhh.. for the boobs or the table? :p :p :p

Sorry Tina, but I thought that was funny!


I have a 9 foot Olhausen, that is an excellent price - make sure you get it in writing - you'll have hours of enjoyment folding laundry on it!!! :D
 
Thanks for the responses everyone. I do have mixed feelings on whether or not to go with the 8 footer. I really want a 9ft table, but also dont want to pass up a good deal on a great table either. Its a tough decision :( . Anyone ever priced out a Waterfall? Thanks again and take care!
 
$4k for an 8ft'er is not too good a deal. I just got a 8tf Bruswick GCIII from someone on the board for $1200 plus $600 for delivery from MI to TN and setup with all new cloth. It formica top isn't in the best shape and it has expected flaws for a 20+ year old table. For the money you have you could get a really nice used 9ft Diamond or Bruswick table which many will agree is better than a new Olhausen. Also I think black felt would suck a big one when it come to shooting but maybe its just me. Also consider if you spend $6k on a new waterfall what it will look like in 10 or 20 years, since its a contemporary look it will probably look hideous due to the aged design where as a Gold Crown will always be a classic design. Also if you get a gold crown or Diamond used you will most likely be able to get back almost every penny you spend on it if you decide to sell which is much more than you'll be able to say for a $6k waterfall olhausen. I hope my opinion helps.
 
Mechanically speaking I love Olhausens. They are very sturdy and built well. Much better than Brunswick's (Excluding the Gold Crowns) tables.

Are there any other tables you have looked at besides Olhausen or are you dead set on Olhausens? There are many great companies out there.
 
FWIW, a NEW 9' Diamond Pro costs under $4,500. Call diamond for additional info. 812-288-7665

Good Luck!
 
Just a few thoughts from someone who just purchased a table (and will have it shortly).

First, get the 9 footer.

Second, seriously consider buying something simple and classic. It will still look good in 20 years.

Third, they'd probably have to re-felt the Champion if they delivered it to you, and I'm pretty darn sure they wouldn't use the same exact felt. Maybe same color, but not the same felt.
 
There is an in between size called a Pro 8. It's 8 and one half feet long and 4 and a quarter feet wide (playing surface measurements). I got that size because I couldn't quite squeeze in a 9 footer. BTW it's an Ohlhausen and cost me about $4,000.00. It listed for $5,900.00.

I also found out that the space requirement measurements that you get off of all the websites are WRONG. They all simply add 58" from the inside edge of the rails outward. This doesn't allow space for backstroke (about another 12").

I have had my table for three years and it's ok. However if I had it to do all over again I'd not mess around with a new table. I'd make the room slightly bigger and get a good used 9' Gold Crown; maybe an older one. Price is less and quality is better IMO.

Gooduck with your project!
 
i sell olhausens......and that is a kick ass price on the waterfall. my shop sell them starting at $7300 for an 8'.
 
ndisgii said:
Thanks for the responses everyone. I do have mixed feelings on whether or not to go with the 8 footer. I really want a 9ft table, but also dont want to pass up a good deal on a great table either. Its a tough decision :( . Anyone ever priced out a Waterfall? Thanks again and take care!
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If you really want the 9 foot, get it. If you put an addition on your house, you've probably already spend some decent money, so why not spend a bit more to get what you really want? You should consider the table to be an investment in your personal enjoyment, thats worth more than the money (unless it is a serious affordability issue). If you get the 8 foot, I bet you're shopping for a 9 foot within a couple years.
 
HeyYouItsMike said:
If you get the 8 foot, I bet you're shopping for a 9 foot within a couple years.
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Absolutely. DO NOT buy the 8' table just because it is a great deal if you are serious about your game. I made the same mistake and finally was able to rectify it this year, replacing a great bargain of a 7' bar box that I could not stand to play on with a nice used 9' table.

You can absolutely get the same quality in a 9' table for $4000, although it may not be brand new. A lightly used GC or Diamond Pro should be within your range, but you may have to trawl aroud the 'net for a month or two to get it. Or you can get a more worn table for around $2k or less and the rest getting it restored and probably still have change. In fact many skilled table mechanics can make tables like the GC actually BETTER than brand new condition by replacing the factory rubber with top-quality Artemis, re-cutting the pockets, replacing shims with extended rail setups and re-plating the metalwork with better quality processes than Brunswick themselves use.

From what I understand Diamond tables do not generally need such extensive renovation, which is why they can command higher used prices.

Another good tactic is to find out the nearby major Pro tour events as they often sell off practically new tables at the end of the tournament at low cost. If you tell us what region you are in I'm sure someone can point you in the right direction.
 
If your getting the floor model that is good. Especially on an Olhausen commercial style. People don't play on them they just sit there. Even if the shop leaves the felt from the floor model. As long as it wasn't near a window it will be alright. We have moved tables 3-4 times before and used the same felt. Simonis, Champion, etc. If they say they can't do it then don't hire them.

Room measurements...
- First off your absolute minimum from the play surface to the wall (inside of the cushion) is 57" If they have the frame in there it will be where the slate hole screws are. That is basically where your play surface starts.

We try to get a minimum of 60" or exactly 5ft when we put it in a room. That allows for a 3 inch stroke. If you say have a bar you want to add about 12-20" for your bar stools. So basically 80" from your first obstruction.

Room measurements should be (57" cue)
7' (Inside cushion 38"x76") - 12'8" x 15'10"
8' (44"x88") - 13'2" x 16'10"
8' Pro (46"x92") - 13'4" x 17'2"
9' (50"x100") - 13'8"x17'10"

Basically measure from the inside of the cusion and give yourself 57" on each side. 60" for best playability.

Another thing to think about is if you have a window nearby. You want more than 60" because people will put sticks through them. And break away if you can. Wooden or hard plastic blinds will also stop a ball from breaking the window most of the time.

I love Diamonds. But I love Olhausens probably better. They are built awesome. That's just my preference.

As for size. I like 9's but I hate moving them. Get what you feel will be best. If you have young kids a 7-8' would be better. I would like to have 1 size of each.

I want a 6' valley coin-op. A 7' 3peice. 8' CL Bailey Forsyth, 9' Gold Crown 4 black. And a 10' Peter Vitalie Snooker. With an antique 12' Snooker T-rail in perfect shape. I wish I had a bumper pool table now. Oh yeah. I forgot to mention a Billiard table.

Your table looks awesome. I bet it would be more beautiful in person.
 
smittie1984 said:
Basically measure from the inside of the cusion and give yourself 57" on each side. 60" for best playability.
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I'd go at least 66". Cues are 58" nowadays and 66" gives you 6" of stroke with a little "slop" room (longer stroke, not having to worry about hitting the wall when you reach 6", etc.).
 
You only have to worry about that 60" if it is dead on the rail and a straight shot. If it rolls out 3" you have that much more playability.
 
For some reason, I am just not really wanting to go with a used table and possibly deal with a bad seller that is hiding something, because I really wouldnt know what to look for. I hear more mixed opinions on the Brunswicks than I do the Olhausens. Diamonds seem to get excellent praise, but I dont think I can find one locally which insures a greater delivery/install fee, but I have tossed it around.

I posted this same thread on multiple forums, and I am getting mixed opinions on whether or not it is a good deal, but more-so leaning towards that it is. It seems that the price on the Waterfall is a better deal the the Grand Champ is, but I dont know if I want to spend that much. If I went with the Grand Champ, I would ask him to refelt it in the lighter grey color using the newer Accu-Guard felt, and also throw in a set of Aramith Super Pro balls to seal the deal. I think the 8ft table may be ok, and my frame of thinking is that it is right in the middle. So, if I play on a 7ft bar table or a 9ft tournament table, I should do ok on either because I will be used to being right there in the middle as opposed to learning on the 9ft and then playing on the 7ft. I played on an 8ft table last night and its not bad at all. I do NOT plan on playing professionally or in tournaments, I really just want to have fun with it and be able to practice more often for when I go out with friends and play for fun. Just for reference, the room that it will be going in is 20x23. I wouldnt mind having that little extra room around the edges also. So, I may just go ahead and go with it if he will throw in the re-felt and balls. Thanks again everyone!
 
Man I would REALLY suggest going used for a $4,000 table. Like mentioned before try to hunt down a table used just for a tournament. IMO you see so much back and forth discussion on GC's because they have been around so long and they are so widely used. Many will say GC III's and IV's are not as good as the I's and II's but I think they're still damn good sturdy tables. If you get used I would suggest trying to pay with paypal because they will take your back if there's anything wrong with the deal.

Best of luck to ya.
 
ndisgii said:
For some reason, I am just not really wanting to go with a used table and possibly deal with a bad seller that is hiding something, because I really wouldnt know what to look for.
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I like to buy new too. Cars, etc. Though I did buy someone else's house instead of building... ;)

ndisgii said:
I think the 8ft table may be ok, and my frame of thinking is that it is right in the middle. So, if I play on a 7ft bar table or a 9ft tournament table, I should do ok on either because I will be used to being right there in the middle as opposed to learning on the 9ft and then playing on the 7ft. I played on an 8ft table last night and its not bad at all.
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I remember reading somewhere that it was easy to go from a 9-footer to a 7-footer (the shots are all so short!), very hard to go from a 7-footer to a 9-footer, and harder still to go from an 8-footer to a 7 or a 9. Which kinda makes sense, because the only places you really find an 8-footer are homes, while bars and pool halls have either 7 or 9 footers. So if you own an 8 and play outside your house, you're virtually guaranteed to be playing on a different table size. If you have a 7 or a 9 in your house, the odds are much smaller than 100%.

I could be wrong about how I heard the above, but I'm pretty sure I've paraphrased what I heard accurately.
 
sneaky_pete:
I will check into a used tournament table, but dont know where to start to look? Any suggestions on where to start? Oh, and the Paypal thing....lol...dont even get me started on Paypal. I have heard so many disaster stories for people getting screwed by Paypal, and I have had my own bad experience as well. I really dont want to go that route again :o

iacas:
Yeah, I guees I can see that as being true. Being good on a 9footer, probably would make it easier to make shots on the smaller table.

I hate making decisions :(
 
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