One Rail Kick Shots

[mapman72]

In my quest to improve my game, I have identified a weakness that is costing me matches. I play pretty good and can compete with the best players in my area, but one thing that I'm noticing is that when I'm in a tough match against a pro or pro caliber player, they rarely give me ball in hand, even when I play great safes and lock them down. I cannot say the same for myself. Since I first started playing pool, I have generally just eye balled one rail kicks and I've developed a knack for making good hits 95% of the time. It's the 5% that's killing me. Since I am a geographer and cartographer by trade (go figure based on my SN), I have a high spatial intelligence and I think that has caused me to become lazy and rely on this "eye balling" technique too much. I have been using the two rail, "center point to the pocket to determine angle" (what is the real name for that?) technique for two rail kicks and it's helped. I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions for one railers that may be useful, so that I can assure myself of a 100% hit rate? Hopefully nobody recommends the technique that my opponent used last week when he stretched out his cue to line up his kick shot all the way to the next table and interrupted someone shooting the money ball
Thanks in advance.

 

[Cane]

You'll eventually develope a greater feel for these one rail kicks, but here are a couple of geometrically correct methods that will get you a little more on track and help you start to build that memory for the shots.

I'll do these on the WEI table WEI
This first one is a midpoint kicking system. Works very well. Simple to use. Draw an imaginary line from the center of the CB to the center of the OB. Find the point halfway in between the two balls and then draw an imaginary line from that midpoint to the cushion and that point is your aim point on the cushion to make the hit... or as you fine tune it more, to make the shot.

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Another one is called (or I call it) Paralell Lines. In this one, first, draw a line from the object ball to the cushion, then find the midpoint between the object ball and the CB, represented by "A" and draw a line from that midpoint to where the line from the oject ball intersects the cushion. Now you simply shoot the CB on a line paralell to the line from the midpoint to the cushion and you hit the object ball.

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There are countless methods out there and I'm sure others will post methods that work equally as well, if not better, but these should get you started and make it a lot easier to hit those 1 rail kicks.

Later,
Bob

 

[BillYards]

A long time ago, I improved my one rail kicks greatly by just taking time to look them over carefully from directly between the balls (ideally standing directly across from the contact point on the cushion), not from behind the cueball. It is just too difficult to judge accurately from that position. I simply visualize the lines forming a perfect "V" between the balls, with the angles between the cushion and the legs of the V being equal.

I also sometimes use my cue to help make a line from the ball that is farthest from the rail, but you have to be careful with that method, as it is illegal under some rules (especially if you let go of the cue after laying it on the table).

Also, you must learn to sight from the contact point on the cushion (face of the cushion), not the rail. That threw me off for a while too. After finding your spot on the cushion and you are back behind the cueball make sure you trust what you saw and don't change your mind while you are down shooting.

I also shoot the most difficult ones with center ball to keep it as simple as possible. Consistently striking the cueball exactly on the center axis requires more practice than people realize. I have a tendency to strike the cueball towards my dominant eye (and I think many other players do this too) and have to watch that bad habit to keep it under control.

With this method and a lot of practice, you can start to control which side of the object ball you are hitting, resulting in the ability to play safeties back on your opponent.

The midpoint kicking system listed by Cane is most accurate when the balls are equidistant from the rail used for the kick and becomes less accurate if the balls are different distances.

 

[Cornerman]

I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions for one railers that may be useful, so that I can assure myself of a 100% hit rate?

My single rail kicking (percentage for pocketing, or safety/correct side of the ball) has improved by leaps from this tidbit I picked up from RSB. Probably from Ron Shepard, but it could have been Bob Jewett or Mike Page.

I use the Mirror Method with two things in mind:

A mirrored kick with a cueball that has no spin at impact with the cushion will always come up short. That is, the natural bank of the cushion is shorter than the old "angle in, angle out" mantra. It's a return of energy physics thing.

Secondly, if you use the Mirror Method, the "mirror" exists a line a ball radius away from the cushion nose. There's usually a rut line formed next to the the cushion. I use that, not the cushion nose.

Now, knowing that the non-spinning cueball always comes up short, I stroke to stun the cueball into the cushion with a touch of inside english . That sort of counter-acts the cushion shortness. Don't forget about squirt and swerve.

To find my "mirror aimpoint" I measure it with my stick, again keeping in mind that the mirror is at the rut, not the nose. Where the stick crosses the rail, I shoot at that point.

Fred <~~~ easier shown than written.

The saying in my head is "stun the cueball with a touch of inside."

 

[Secaucus Fats]

A 95% success rate is outstanding. Having said that, here is a percentage kicking system for half of the table kicks.

The system works very well going cross corner or cross side. (I will post the system for length of the table one rail kicks later.)

Cross Corner Half of the Table Percentage Kicks:

12.5% one rail kick. Slow stroke with 2 tips right English, center ball:
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25% one rail kick. Center ball with 1 tip right hand English, medium-soft stroke:
START( %AN6O5%BL7P8%CJ5O4%DL7N1%EM7P1%FK6P1%GK6N8%Hr5Z4%IL7O3%JK6M5 %KJ5P7%LJ5N2%MK6Q4%NJ5R0%OJ5M0%P[3Z3%Ua2B7%V[5Y4%Wq4X7%Xa3A4 %eC1a4 )END

50% (Mid-point one rail kick) Center ball hit on cueball (no English) medium speed:
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75% one rail kick. Center ball with 1.5 tips of left hand English, firm stroke:

START( %AN7O5%BL7P8%CJ5O4%DL7N1%EM7P1%FK6P1%GK6N8%Hr5Z3%IL7O4%JK6M5 %KJ5P7%LJ5N2%MK6Q4%NJ5R0%OJ5M0%P[3Z2%Um1B4%V[9Y7%Wr2Y0%Xm7A5 %eA6a4 )END

87.5% one rail kick . Extreme outside (left) English with draw, cue butt elevated about 25 - 30 degrees, very firm stroke. :

START( %AN7O5%BL7P8%CJ5O4%DL7N1%EM7P1%FK6P1%GK6N8%Hr4Z2%IL7O4%JK6M5%KJ5P7%LJ5N2%MK6Q4%NJ5R0%OJ5M0%P[4Z2%Uo4B2%V[9Y8%Wr4Yo9
A3%eA4b3 )END

 

[kyle]

Easy one to remember when object ball is on rail, OB is at about 3.3, the cue ball lies 3 diamonds from the rail (A,B,C,D) multiply the number of diamonds (3x) to the ob# 3.3 = aiming point (9.9).

 

[mikepage]

You'll eventually develope a greater feel for these one rail kicks, but here are a couple of geometrically correct methods that will get you a little more on track and help you start to build that memory for the shots.

I'll do these on the WEI table WEI
This first one is a midpoint kicking system. Works very well. Simple to use. Draw an imaginary line from the center of the CB to the center of the OB. Find the point halfway in between the two balls and then draw an imaginary line from that midpoint to the cushion and that point is your aim point on the cushion to make the hit... or as you fine tune it more, to make the shot.

[...]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but how does that work here?

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mike page
fargo

 

[Cane]

. After finding your spot on the cushion and you are back behind the cueball make sure you trust what you saw and don't change your mind while you are down shooting.

BillYards... excellent point. You're entire post was good, but that particular sentence was dead on. Second guessing themselves while down and ready to shoot is probably the single most self destructive thing a pool player can do.

OK, after my first post, I decided to try to do another kicking system on the WEI table. Wasn't sure if I could represent it well or not, so didn't do it with the first two. This one simply uses the diamonds. Now the first one is easy because the CB and OB are paralell to each other on the table. Looking at lines 90° off of the OB and CB to the cushion you're going to kick to, you see that the balls are two diamonds apart. Since they are paralell, you simply shoot at the halfway point. In this example, the CB and OB are two diamonds apart, so you shoot to one diamond on the cushion, or half the distance, as in this example

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OK, good starting point and a good place to kick and see if a table is going a little long or a little short, but it's really not very often that we have this "perfect" setup where the OB and CB are paralell on the table, so how do you make adjustments.

In the following example, you know that in a perfect world, with perfect cloth, that the CB, if shot through the second diamond is this case, will go in the pocket, so let's draw an imaginary line for that path, in this case, the red line going into the cushion and the black line coming out. Now draw a line, in this case, the blue line, through the object ball paralell to the ideal cue ball path coming off the cushion to the pocket. You can see the the OB is about 2 balls offset from the projected "baseline" for the kick, so you simply adjust half that distance down table on the cushion, or one ball down table, and shoot the CB for that spot (the yellow line going to the cushion, the green line coming off) and you'll hit the OB. Well, get these systems down pat and you'll be shooting to MAKE the ball, not just hit it.

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Best of luck,
Bob

PS: Unlike BillYards, I USUALLY use running English on "most" kick shots... usually only a half a tip or so. Running english will make a difference. Not using it is just as accurate, but you have to usually shoot the shot a little different. I'm just used to using running english on kick shots, and won't change my ways! Too hard headed, I guess, plus I've been doing it that way for so long, I probably would whiff the OB if I tried to NOT use spin on the CB!

 

[mikepage]

[...]
Now, knowing that the non-spinning cueball always comes up short, I stroke to stun the cueball into the cushion with a touch of inside english . That sort of counter-acts the cushion shortness. [...]

I'm not sure what inside english is on a cushion.

You hit with a little running english, right? so the cueball rolls off the cushion like a football player might roll off a would-be tackler?

mike page
fargo

 

[mnShooter]

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Drop a line to the rail from the cueball and object ball. Draw a line from cueball to object ball spot and vice versa. Then where they intersect is the point on the rail. This works for banks also.

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Otherwise use the diamonds 4-2*2=0 6-3*2 = 0. Of course you need to know the effects of speed, english and acquired english when hitting the rail or else you might not hit your target.

 

[Cornerman]

I'm not sure what inside english is on a cushion.

You hit with a little running english, right? so the cueball rolls off the cushion like a football player might roll off a would-be tackler?

mike page
fargo

Inside of the bank angle. Sorry about the terminology confusion. Yes, running english.

Fred

 

[Cane]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but how does that work here?

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mike page
fargo

Mike, you're absolutely right. The FIRST one I showed will NOT work there. I should have qualified that midpoint system and said if the CB and OB are on the same side of the table, as in that example. As a matter of fact, that system only works if the CB and OB have very little separation and probably best if they are in the same quarter of the table. It works well for shots like the one I outlined at in the first example, but the other two systems I outlined work in all one rail kick situations. I like the third one (the one in the second post) better than any other. It's just easier to visualize and easier to make work.

Shooting a paralell line from the midpoint that I showed in the second one, should work for this kick, where line from the OB to the cushion, blue line, then draw a line from the midpoint to where the OB line hits the cushion (red line), the shoot the CB paralell to the red line (green line)


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This will give the same CB path that the method I outlined in my second post gives. I like to teach that method a lot more than the second one. It's nothing more that a diamond line up method, but you'd be surprised how many students can't remember which diamonds are the base lineups for even one rail kicks. Unfortunately, not everyone can visualize the method in the second post, although, I think it's a lot easier. For the shot you posted, that other system (the one in the second post) works very well. I like it better for kicks because it's true for all kicks, not just ones where the balls are on the same half of the table. Going to try to line that method out for the shot you posted. Red line in and black line out are your lineups to kick the CB to the pocket. Blue line is a paralell line to your black line. Yellow in and green out are your adjusted path (Halfway between where the red line intersects the cushion and the blue intersects the cushion), and that hits the ball very accurately. Running English is an abolute must in this situation, or a much larger adjustment has to be made. No adjustment and no running english and you'll go short on this shot every time.

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The 2nd and 3rd method work very well and if you'll set them up on a table and shoot them, then you'll see that both methods send the CB to the same contact point on the cushion.


WHEW... I didn't think I was ever going to get those lines straightened out. I found out after a few edits that if you take the arrow end of the lines completely out of the field of view on the table, when you paste it back, they just kind of go where they want to, not where you pointed them! Anyways, I think I've got it now. Disregard the first method if you can visualize either of the second two methods.

Later,
Bob

 

[supergreenman]

mirror system

Hi I use the mirror system as well. I find it quite humorous when I'm lining up the shot and people on the side are wondering what the ---> insert your four letter word here<----- I'm doing, but who cares it works. excuse the diagram, I'm at work.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Hi I use the mirror system as well. I find it quite humorous when I'm lining up the shot and people on the side are wondering what the ---> insert your four letter word here<----- I'm doing, but who cares it works. excuse the diagram, I'm at work.

But as Fred noted earlier, you have to get the reflection point right. In your diagram, the distance between the first diamonds on each table away from the mirror plane should be less than two diamonds, and in your diagram it is more.

There are some articles on banking/kicking at http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/BD_articles.html including
October 1996, December 1999, May, July, August and September 2004, and February 2005. Included in there is a way to practice the "two rail out of the corner, bisect the distance" method quickly so that you can determine when that system will not work.

 

[Bob Jewett]

My single rail kicking (percentage for pocketing, or safety/correct side of the ball) has improved by leaps from this tidbit I picked up from RSB. Probably from Ron Shepard, but it could have been Bob Jewett or Mike Page. ...

It was Ron Shepard, and he had a system for finding about the right amount of running english according to the incident angle.

 

[BRKNRUN]

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Drop a line to the rail from the cueball and object ball. Draw a line from cueball to object ball spot and vice versa. Then where they intersect is the point on the rail. This works for banks also.

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)END

Otherwise use the diamonds 4-2*2=0 6-3*2 = 0. Of course you need to know the effects of speed, english and acquired english when hitting the rail or else you might not hit your target.

I have not figured out why more people don't use this system instead of the "full" mirror system as it really is the same as the regular "full" mirror system, except that you don't have to flip the table over mentally, or stick your cue out into the next table......I never could hold on to the "visuals" required by the "full" mirror system...the "mini" mirror system you describe above is much easier to find that initial "no spin - medium speed" contact point on the rail.....(I think I first read of this system in a straight pool book by Eddie Robbins???)

I have heard and tend to agree that when using this system for banks, the ball tends to bank "short"......but if you know that going in, you just make sure to error on the just long side...

However...as with any system of banking and kicking...(and aiming) ...the "system" is just a tool to help you gain the right "feel" for the shot...

 

[supergreenman]

But as Fred noted earlier, you have to get the reflection point right. In your diagram, the distance between the first diamonds on each table away from the mirror plane should be less than two diamonds, and in your diagram it is more.

There are some articles on banking/kicking at http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/BD_articles.html including
October 1996, December 1999, May, July, August and September 2004, and February 2005. Included in there is a way to practice the "two rail out of the corner, bisect the distance" method quickly so that you can determine when that system will not work.

Hi Bob, thanks for the tip, could you please explain what you mean about the distance away from the mirror plane having to be less than 2 diamonds. I don't see that anywhere in Freds post. And frankly although I have a high percentage of hitting the OB on a kick, my potting rate isn't what I'd like it to be.

 

[Nostroke]

In my quest to improve my game, I have identified a weakness that is costing me matches. I play pretty good and can compete with the best players in my area, but one thing that I'm noticing is that when I'm in a tough match against a pro or pro caliber player, they rarely give me ball in hand, even when I play great safes and lock them down. I cannot say the same for myself. Since I first started playing pool, I have generally just eye balled one rail kicks and I've developed a knack for making good hits 95% of the time. It's the 5% that's killing me. Since I am a geographer and cartographer by trade (go figure based on my SN), I have a high spatial intelligence and I think that has caused me to become lazy and rely on this "eye balling" technique too much. I have been using the two rail, "center point to the pocket to determine angle" (what is the real name for that?) technique for two rail kicks and it's helped. I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions for one railers that may be useful, so that I can assure myself of a 100% hit rate? Hopefully nobody recommends the technique that my opponent used last week when he stretched out his cue to line up his kick shot all the way to the next table and interrupted someone shooting the money ball
Thanks in advance.

First look at the contact point on the rail for the cueball. Then pretend you are shooting the Object ball as the CB and trying to hit the real CB and find the point on the rail that way. If the points are different something is wrong. Either start over or aim for the mid point between the points on the rail and shoot.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Hi Bob, thanks for the tip, could you please explain what you mean about the distance away from the mirror plane having to be less than 2 diamonds. I don't see that anywhere in Freds post. And frankly although I have a high percentage of hitting the OB on a kick, my potting rate isn't what I'd like it to be.

Fred points out that the reflection takes place at the rail groove. Many, maybe most, pool authors get this wrong. In your diagram, you have to mark the rail grooves on each table and move the tables together until the rail grooves coincide.

Similarly, many players have no idea that there is a difference between playing "through" and "opposite" the diamonds.

 

[recoveryjones]

There are 14 systems for a one rail kick at this link:

http://www.jimloy.com/billiard/kick.htm

RJ