only for the instructor that has the answer

[ENGLISH!]

I was going to start a thread in the main forum but this one is close enough. Let's see how it goes.

The best instructor is the best student who also has the best communication skills. Think about that...the best student is the best instructor if he/she can communicate what they have learned.

As far as I am concerned, there are dozens of fine instructors on this forum who have never received a dime for giving pool instruction, but that does not diminish their ability to learn, teach, and communicate.

The solution to the back biting and crap that goes on?

As stated by others, people are people and I doubt that will change much in our lifetimes. So we will continue to fight. But if each and every one of us work to be better students then we will improve our ability to teach and understand each other. As we improve so does our environment...

Fire away! :thumbup:

Ken

Thanks Mr. Ken.

I'm a little more hopeful than you but I am realistic as well. However, we can not get anywhere if we do not take the first step & then one by one , one after another one. First me, then ....whomever.

We will disagree on topics but I think we ALL should agree to do so in a civilized manner & respect each others' 'opinions'.

There is only one thing that I know...& that is that I 'know' nothing. I believe, I suspect, I'm fairy sure, I have my opinion etc.

There are too many that think that they 'know' & that they know everthing. It's either their way or the highway & damn you (insert insult) if you do not side with them & pat them on the back. Demagods, worship them, or else. (insert insult)

When a child mis-behaves you do not reward them by allowing them to continue their bad behavior. I briefly benched my own, then 5 yr. old, son in his first ever baseball game for unsportsmanlike conduct after he was laughed at for making a running error. He quickly got the message, because he wanted to play. He acknowledge his bad behavior & said that he would not do it again & he did not do it again, ever, throughout his entire ball playing career. (perhaps the moderators are too lienant, no offense mods it is a very difficult job)

Sorry for the rant on your nickel Mr. Ken. Please help out whenever you can.

Best Wishes,
Rick

 

[FranCrimi]

A good question, thanks for raising this issue:

*I will continue my policy of pressing others for facts so I can respond/debate like a gentleman.

*Some debate is healthy as long as it is about the facts of billiards, and not someone's personal appearance and etc. Ad hominem attackers should be warned and then banned for a temporary time or permanently IMHO.

*Unfortunately, it is in the nature of some to be low or conniving when arguing. My standards are Christians standards for treating and respecting others. The problem will continue at forums Internet-wide until more people conform to godly standards of decorum.

This is the hypocracy of human nature. This person obviously feels it is not un-Christian to post articles on his web site that mock decent and respectable billiard pillars of our community. There's your double standard, folks.

 

[BilliardsAbout]

Maybe you could devise some kind of spam filter that prevents non-Christians from posting on AZ. Cuz no Christians are aggressive, rude, or close-minded, right? Problem solved!!

Donny L
PBIA/ACS Instructor

Hi, Donny:

I hear where you're coming from, there. There are some closed-minded Christians, even some close-minded born again Christians who have a genuine relationship with Jesus Christ.

I meant by my post I work to follow biblical standards for posting and responding to posts. Christian standards from the playbook of Christianity, not the varying standards of millions of Christians. The invective and even violence of people in the name of Christ does not change the character of Jesus or the standards of the scriptures.

I apologize for not being more clear in my previous post.

 

[BilliardsAbout]

This is the hypocracy of human nature. This person obviously feels it is not un-Christian to post articles on his web site that mock decent and respectable billiard pillars of our community. There's your double standard, folks.

Hi, Fran.

I apologize if something on my website offended you. Please reply to me direct or post a link here and I'll take a look at the site and respond or edit my comments.

I try to be supportive of everyone, even for products I've reviewed that weren't quite up to snuff. So many pros and product makers appreciate what I've done and how I've treated them per the golden rule of treating other people as Christ commands... anyway, I'm all ears if there's something I've written that is off base.

 

[FranCrimi]

Hi, Fran.

I apologize if something on my website offended you. Please reply to me direct or post a link here and I'll take a look at the site and respond or edit my comments.

I try to be supportive of everyone, even for products I've reviewed that weren't quite up to snuff. So many pros and product makers appreciate what I've done and how I've treated them per the golden rule of treating other people as Christ commands... anyway, I'm all ears if there's something I've written that is off base.

No thanks. You've already done enough damage to the reputations of decent and kind and informed people who only contribute positively to our community. I will not draw attention to any specifics that might harm them even more, simply because people who don't know them might buy into that load of crap. Some Christian you are.

 

[Okie]

Thanks Mr. Ken.

I'm a little more hopeful than you but I am realistic as well. However, we can not get anywhere if we do not take the first step & then one by one , one after another one. First me, then ....whomever.

We will disagree on topics but I think we ALL should agree to do so in a civilized manner & respect each others' 'opinions'.

There is only one thing that I know...& that is that I 'know' nothing. I believe, I suspect, I'm fairy sure, I have my opinion etc.

There are too many that think that they 'know' & that they know everthing. It's either their way or the highway & damn you (insert insult) if you do not side with them & pat them on the back. Demagods, worship them, or else. (insert insult)

When a child mis-behaves you do not reward them by allowing them to continue their bad behavior. I briefly benched my own, then 5 yr. old, son in his first ever baseball game for unsportsmanlike conduct after he was laughed at for making a running error. He quickly got the message, because he wanted to play. He acknowledge his bad behavior & said that he would not do it again & he did not do it again, ever, throughout his entire ball playing career. (perhaps the moderators are too lienant, no offense mods it is a very difficult job)

Sorry for the rant on your nickel Mr. Ken. Please help out whenever you can.

Best Wishes,
Rick

No apology necessary. Good thread you got here! Thank you

Ken, if you don't mind explaining a little more: what does this mean to you: "people are people"?

We are who we are. We cannot change others but we can change ourselves.

Ken

 

[Ghosst]

Rick,

I had one "master instructor" try to insult me, quite deliberately, on this forum a while ago and then had the audacity to pretend it didn't happen. It made me think of making a similar thread, but in the end I chose not to bring it up.

I was quite shocked that someone who calls themselves a professional would drag down the reputation of all instructors (whether by intent or accidental association) with them. Not in my mind, but in the mind of the lurkers who don't post, only read. If they see someone who is supposed to be helpful and supportive act that way it tarnishes all instructors. But reliving it would have made it go on and on, so I chose to just walk away.

This is why I didn't make a thread.

I have to hope people who are new to pool won't think all instructors are like that. Most of them are great people, and like anything else, there are no absolutes so you will find the occasional exception.

I understand the point you are trying to get across and maybe, just maybe, it will be heard. I hope so, not for my benefit or yours, but for the sport itself.

 

[justadub]

No thanks. You've already done enough damage to the reputations of decent and kind and informed people who only contribute positively to our community. I will not draw attention to any specifics that might harm them even more, simply because people who don't know them might buy into that load of crap. Some Christian you are.

Nicely stated.

People should keep their religious views to themselves, or at the very least speak of them in the appropriate place and time. Dragging religion into a pool forum is poor form. In my humble opinion.

 

[KRJ]

Nicely stated.

People should keep their religious views to themselves, or at the very least speak of them in the appropriate place and time. Dragging religion into a pool forum is poor form. In my humble opinion.

^^^^^ Yep.

And if someone truly acts with integrity and honor they surely do not need to go around telling folks they do so, as others will see it. Not really sure why it should be advertised by the person, and so often

 

[BilliardsAbout]

No thanks. You've already done enough damage to the reputations of decent and kind and informed people who only contribute positively to our community. I will not draw attention to any specifics that might harm them even more, simply because people who don't know them might buy into that load of crap. Some Christian you are.

Well, Fran, my offer still stands. It's very hard for me to be a real Christian (repentant, apologetic, willing to change) which are also qualities of any decent person, if you say I insulted people at AZ Billiards at my website but don't tell me how or where. There's something like 700 articles on my site...

Although I can think of two instances, by the way. One is an article about fellow teachers in which names are not revealed and circumstances are kept discreet. That article also came with a lot of disclaimers inside of it. The other is an unflattering book review, which I posted from a reader and actually discussed with the famous pool author regarding the book review, which it turns out, is actually rather complementary to the writer, and the writer thanked me for my time and discussion with him.

Anyhow, my door is always open.

 

[BilliardsAbout]

Nicely stated.

People should keep their religious views to themselves, or at the very least speak of them in the appropriate place and time. Dragging religion into a pool forum is poor form. In my humble opinion.

The thread was appropriate for my comment. It was asked why people are rude to one another at AZ. I am not rude and shared my convictions why I try to be a decent Christian.

I'm not looking to argue with you, but I would ask why when I talk about Jesus it is inappropriate but when you state your religious opinion that it's appropriate.

 

[BilliardsAbout]

^^^^^ Yep.

And if someone truly acts with integrity and honor they surely do not need to go around telling folks they do so, as others will see it. Not really sure why it should be advertised by the person, and so often

Honor is a strong word, I don't think that is justified by my posts at AZ.

But if people will restrain themselves from attacking my Christian character with innuendo (you did something evil but I won't say what it is) then I will restrain from defending my integrity. Likewise, I get tired of constantly defending my teaching from "you're stupid, that's not true" when I'd rather discuss/debate what FACTS are not true.

Again, all the above is relevant to this thread!

 

[ENGLISH!]

Rick,

I had one "master instructor" try to insult me, quite deliberately, on this forum a while ago and then had the audacity to pretend it didn't happen. It made me think of making a similar thread, but in the end I chose not to bring it up.

I was quite shocked that someone who calls themselves a professional would drag down the reputation of all instructors (whether by intent or accidental association) with them. Not in my mind, but in the mind of the lurkers who don't post, only read. If they see someone who is supposed to be helpful and supportive act that way it tarnishes all instructors. But reliving it would have made it go on and on, so I chose to just walk away.

This is why I didn't make a thread.

I have to hope people who are new to pool won't think all instructors are like that. Most of them are great people, and like anything else, there are no absolutes so you will find the occasional exception.

I understand the point you are trying to get across and maybe, just maybe, it will be heard. I hope so, not for my benefit or yours, but for the sport itself.

Tap! Tap! Tap! No words necessary, but I will say, thank you sir for your words.

With Respect,
Rick

 

[ENGLISH!]

Topic?

Please remember the topic of this thread. The question was, & I paraphrase, how can we put an end to all of the bickering, back stabbing, insults, word twisting, personal attacks, etc., etc., etc.

I did not mean to drudge up past transgressions, truthful or percieved.
There comes a time when we need to get ourselves above all of that & move on in a better direction. An Armisitice.

I am not 'preaching' holier than thou stuff. If my nemesis prods me I will probably want to lay into him as I have wanted to in the past but restraint is the better part of valor. However, that does not mean run. It simply means be tactful & respectful while getting your point or objections out & across.

Lets talk POOL not personality. I think...that we all love this game or we would not be here. If one has an ulterior motive for being here & that motive harms AZB or the game then shame on them. The moderators should probably weed them out. (again no offense mods, I know it is a near impossible job)

Mr. Wilson,

If this thread gets out of hand, please pull the plug. It was intended to be helpful & not harmful to anyone.

With respect to all, even those that I disagree with or do not particularly 'like' for whatever reason.

Hopefully & Sincerely,
Rick

 

[BilliardsAbout]

Please remember the topic of this thread. The question was, & I paraphrase, how can we put an end to all of the bickering, back stabbing, insults, word twisting, personal attacks, etc., etc., etc.

I did not mean to drudge up past transgressions, truthful or percieved.
There comes a time when we need to get ourselves above all of that & move on in a better direction. An Armisitice.

I am not 'preaching' holier than thou stuff. If my nemesis prods me I will probably want to lay into him as I have wanted to in the past but restraint is the better part of valor. However, that does not mean run. It simply means be tactful & respectful while getting your point or objections out & across.

Lets talk POOL not personality. I think...that we all love this game or we would not be here. If one has an ulterior motive for being here & that motive harms AZB or the game then shame on them. The moderators should probably weed them out. (again no offense mods, I know it is a near impossible job)

Mr. Wilson,

If this thread gets out of hand, please pull the plug. It was intended to be helpful & not harmful to anyone.

With respect to all, even those that I disagree with or do not particularly 'like' for whatever reason.

Hopefully & Sincerely,
Rick

Rick:

You are right. How we put an end to all the nonsense is we just don't do it. But the reason why it's done is to drive contrary opinions from the boards.

I know I've thought more than once, "Gee, I'm giving pool lessons for free on these threads and I'm getting back invective, cursing and arguing, constantly."

 

[ENGLISH!]

Rick:

You are right. How we put an end to all the nonsense is we just don't do it. But the reason why it's done is to drive contrary opinions from the boards.

I know I've thought more than once, "Gee, I'm giving pool lessons for free on these threads and I'm getting back invective, cursing and arguing, constantly."

Mr. Sherman,

You may well be correct. That is why I asked that all ulterior motives be put behind that of the betterment of the game. I stumbled onto AZB when looking to buy a LD shaft. After I joined I was shocked at all of the opinions that were being preached as 'god send' & all of the bickering low class arguments about them that were present. Why would I want to take a lesson from any 'prominent' instructor here on AZB? I would rather find one that knows his or her 'stuff' & that can probably help me in a variety of ways. If you only knows how to skin a cat one way, you better not go to work for a fur coat maker than needs it done another way.

There seems to be two(2) factions on AZB. Those with open minded formed opinions & those who espouse a closed minded dogma.

Fundamentals is a strange word. Arnold Palmer's father taught him 'the golf grip' & told him to never change it. Mr. Palmer has siad that he never did. Many would point out that his golf swing was certainly not 'classic'. Neither was Jack Nicklaus's. They have different grips & different bodies. Then there's Bobby Jones, Harry Vardin, Walter Hagen, Sam Snead, Byron Nelson, Ben Hogan, Gary Player, Lee Trevino, Billy Casper, Chi Chi Rodrigez, Johnny Miller, Tom Weiscoff, Tiger Woods, & many many more. All great Champions! They all swung the golf club differenty. The only fundamental that they all had in common was the ball impact position. You can look at hundreds or even thousands of pictures & would probablly be hard pressed to find two(2) that do not match that position & those 2 were probably bad shots.

As Mr. Wiley said in another thread, & I paraphase, you have to put the stick through the cue ball in a straight line, how you get there is up to you.

We are going to disagree as we all come from different backgrounds with regards to playing (& teaching) the game. I simply ask that we ALL do so with a civil repect for one another and each others opinions.

They are still searching for 'The Perfect Golf Swing' & I think we are ALL still searching for 'The Perfect Cue Stroke' Why can't we search together in some semplence of unity as the more experienced or learned of the cue sports community as the golf professional do. They teach different 'fundamentals' but they do not put down those of others. In fact almost all golf instructors would agree that one needs to find a grouping of certain fundamentals that fit one's own body & natural abilities. There is no one 'size' fits all & there should not be 'my way or the highway'.

Well, there is another rant on someone else's nickel. I simply ask that we ALL put in a concerned efffort to be civil in our disagreements. I think we all revert to childish behavior at times, certainly myself included, let's just try to limit it as best that each one of us is capable.

Sincerely with Restrained Hope,
Rick

 

[KRJ]

Honor is a strong word, I don't think that is justified by my posts at AZ.

But if people will restrain themselves from attacking my Christian character with innuendo (you did something evil but I won't say what it is) then I will restrain from defending my integrity. Likewise, I get tired of constantly defending my teaching from "you're stupid, that's not true" when I'd rather discuss/debate what FACTS are not true.

Again, all the above is relevant to this thread!

Yes, Honor is a strong word, and I'm giving you the benfit of the doubt, and I'm not questioning your integrity for a second... though you are questioning mine? Is that correct, you're judging me for doing something "evil" ??? Really, "evil"... yowser

And then you use the "you're stupd, that's not true" remark in the post back to me. really, I did nothing to insult you, and never mentioned anything about you "teaching" or anything else for that matter. I did not even know you were a teacher/instructor.... was I suppose to know that ??

For some reason you took it as an insult that I agreed with JustaDub. Or you were insulted that folks with integrity don't have to keep reminding folks they have it... just act like you have it and folks will notice.

Pretty defensive and paranoid, and a little bit "spiteful" for a person following the good book, no ??

Other than that, keep up the good work, I think ??

 

[Neil]

Mr. Sherman,

You may well be correct. That is why I asked that all ulterior motives be put behind that of the betterment of the game. I stumbled onto AZB when looking to buy a LD shaft. After I joined I was shocked at all of the opinions that were being preached as 'god send' & all of the bickering low class arguments about them that were present. Why would I want to take a lesson from any 'prominent' instructor here on AZB? I would rather find one that knows his or her 'stuff' & that can probably help me in a variety of ways. If you only knows how to skin a cat one way, you better not go to work for a fur coat maker than needs it done another way.

There seems to be two(2) factions on AZB. Those with open minded formed opinions & those who espouse a closed minded dogma.

Fundamentals is a strange word. Arnold Palmer's father taught him 'the golf grip' & told him to never change it. Mr. Palmer has siad that he never did. Many would point out that his golf swing was certainly not 'classic'. Neither was Jack Nicklaus's. They have different grips & different bodies. Then there's Bobby Jones, Harry Vardin, Walter Hagen, Sam Snead, Byron Nelson, Ben Hogan, Gary Player, Lee Trevino, Billy Casper, Chi Chi Rodrigez, Johnny Miller, Tom Weiscoff, Tiger Woods, & many many more. All great Champions! They all swung the golf club differenty. The only fundamental that they all had in common was the ball impact position. You can look at hundreds or even thousands of pictures & would probablly be hard pressed to find two(2) that do not match that position & those 2 were probably bad shots.

As Mr. Wiley said in another thread, & I paraphase, you have to put the stick through the cue ball in a straight line, how you get there is up to you.

We are going to disagree as we all come from different backgrounds with regards to playing (& teaching) the game. I simply ask that we ALL do so with a civil repect for one another and each others opinions.

They are still searching for 'The Perfect Golf Swing' & I think we are ALL still searching for 'The Perfect Cue Stroke' Why can't we search together in some semplence of unity as the more experienced or learned of the cue sports community as the golf professional do. They teach different 'fundamentals' but they do not put down those of others. In fact almost all golf instructors would agree that one needs to find a grouping of certain fundamentals that fit one's own body & natural abilities. There is no one 'size' fits all & there should not be 'my way or the highway'.

Well, there is another rant on someone else's nickel. I simply ask that we ALL put in a concerned efffort to be civil in our disagreements. I think we all revert to childish behavior at times, certainly myself included, let's just try to limit it as best that each one of us is capable.

Sincerely with Restrained Hope,
Rick

You've made it quite clear that you don't like instructors with the exception of a few. So, one has to ask why are you even posting in the instructor section, and why the guise of trying to make peace while at the same time knocking instructors and what they teach?? Especially, when you put out false info on what they teach with the sole intent of demeaning them. Why don't YOU try "live and let live" like you want others to do, instead of knocking every chance you can?? Disagreement and discussion are one thing, what you are doing is quite obvious. "oh, I'm here to make peace, so don't look at the misinformation I'm spewing to start flame wars".

 

[ENGLISH!]

You've made it quite clear that you don't like instructors with the exception of a few. So, one has to ask why are you even posting in the instructor section, and why the guise of trying to make peace while at the same time knocking instructors and what they teach?? Especially, when you put out false info on what they teach with the sole intent of demeaning them. Why don't YOU try "live and let live" like you want others to do, instead of knocking every chance you can?? Disagreement and discussion are one thing, what you are doing is quite obvious. "oh, I'm here to make peace, so don't look at the misinformation I'm spewing to start flame wars"

Neil,

Where I have I said that I do not 'like' instructorS? I have said that it is fairly obviuos that Mr. Lee & I do not like each other, even though we have never met. There are underlying & publicly unknown reasons for that.

As to why I am posting in the instructor section, I have asked a question of an instructor(s) & have already explained why.

What false information have I 'put out' about what any specific instructor teaches? I have no real knowledge of any of the specifics that any instructor, teaches. I have only seen what I have seen here on AZB. My comments have been generic.

Who specifically have I 'knocked'? Again, my perceptions have all been generic.

Who are you quoting with this quote, "oh, I'm here to make peace, so don't look at the misinformation I'm spewing to start flame wars" ? I certainly have never said anything like that & I am not doing that, nor is that my intention.

It appears to me that you may be one that thinks you are clairvoyant & can both read minds & intentions. With this post you 'basically' are calling me a liar & a hypocrite without using those words. This is offensive in the quise of calling one out for 'supposed' mis-information or ill intent with no such proof.

Yours is a type of post to which I have been referring. What good can come from this post of yours. It is instigative. If I would allow it to do so, it could insight me into a retaliatory response. Why do you verbally attack me? Where & when have I done so to you?

Please re-read this thread up to this point & make note of the totally different tone of your two(2) posts from all of the others.

I believe that you are operating & responding under a mis-conception. No offense meant. I simply 'feel' & think that you have made a mistake, as we all can & I most certainly have in the past & will most certainly do again in the future.

We ALL make mistakes. One of the biggest is to NOT appolgize when we suspect or know that we may have made one.

I honestly do not know why you appear to be so upset with me.
What did I do to you other than not totally agree with your assesment of the 'pendulum' stroke. I thanked you for your efforts. I simply do not agree & it is not my fault that it does not stand up to my investigation, IN MY OPINION!

Best Regards,
Rick

 

[ENGLISH!]

Yes, Honor is a strong word, and I'm giving you the benfit of the doubt, and I'm not questioning your integrity for a second... though you are questioning mine? Is that correct, you're judging me for doing something "evil" ??? Really, "evil"... yowser

And then you use the "you're stupd, that's not true" remark in the post back to me. really, I did nothing to insult you, and never mentioned anything about you "teaching" or anything else for that matter. I did not even know you were a teacher/instructor.... was I suppose to know that ??

For some reason you took it as an insult that I agreed with JustaDub. Or you were insulted that folks with integrity don't have to keep reminding folks they have it... just act like you have it and folks will notice.

Pretty defensive and paranoid, and a little bit "spiteful" for a person following the good book, no ??

Other than that, keep up the good work, I think ??

Gentlemen,

I think there is a bit of mis-communication at hand here. I believe the 'you're stupid, that's not true' quote was an example of what others say to Mr. Sherman. I do not believe he was directing that to anyone.

Just trying to help,
Rick