Thank you.
Opinion question on sportsmanship
- Thread starter Jeff Rosen
- Start date
Thank you.
I am simply saying it is poor sportsmanship to knowingly allow your opponent to foul or for you to not admit to a foul just because your opponent didn't see it.
I had 3 things happen last night in my APA match that showed good sportsmanship.
First, my opponent got down to shoot in a very easy 8 and both myself and my score keep told him to mark the pocket. It was an easy tap in for him, so he just quickly shot it in. I personally did not care, it was obvious. I went and spoke with my team captains to make sure they are OK with that as I have been reprimanded by another team captain for not enforcing the rule. So I not only try to prevent him for losing, but I then allowed him to win and just asked that he mark in the future.
Second, my opponent took a very close hit. One I thought was good, but he said it was not and I was down to my last ball and the 8 ball so he basically gave me the game.
Third, I tried to play a very soft safe using the 8 that would have in all probability given me the win but barely missed the rail (about a millimeter off) on the opposite side of the table from where him and his team were sitting. They all had no clue I missed it and were surprised when I picked up the cue ball and handed it to him. Again, that cost me the game and the match as it was Hill-Hill.
Those 3 examples are players playing with integrity and good sportsmanship regardless of situation. Those that say it depends on the circumstance as to how they will play it then I will simply say that in my opinion, you are a coward and a person that is willing to compromise your integrity if it suits you and I am sure that doesn't end when you pack up your sticks.
I understand what you're saying, and I respect your integrity. However, none of that speaks to the point. The OP's question had absolutely nothing to do with whether you should call fouls on yourself. It is whether you should do your opponent's job by notifying him that you're on two. It's his job to notify me, not mine to notify him. As others have done, I will again pose the question--is it your responsibility to tell your opponent that he's about to shoot the wrong ball? IMO, I think not, and the same applies to telling my opponent that I'm on two. Competitive pool isn't funsies and a nice social occasion. It's war to the knife and the knife to the hilt! Yes, you should fight honorably, but it's not your job to help your opponent!
These are my rules for me.
I would always call a foul on myself, no exceptions.
I am never on '2 fouls' unless I am told I am by my opponent or the referee.
By the same extent I never have a frozen ball unless my opponent or the ref tell me its frozen.
Alot might disagree, but in tournament play when they are using the '3 point rule' for the break.....I expect my opponent to be paying attention to make sure I get the 3 points.
I would always call a foul on myself, no exceptions.
I am never on '2 fouls' unless I am told I am by my opponent or the referee.
By the same extent I never have a frozen ball unless my opponent or the ref tell me its frozen.
Alot might disagree, but in tournament play when they are using the '3 point rule' for the break.....I expect my opponent to be paying attention to make sure I get the 3 points.
I wouldn't. It's up to my opponent or a ref to call it.
One of my team mates will tell his opponent he is shooting the wrong ball. I wouldn't.
My.02....not admitting a foul is not a character flaw or bad sportsmanship.
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I think it's a stupid rule begging to have an argument. The SHOOTER should know he's on 2, why should anybody have to tell him?
How does the guy in the chair get punished for not paying attention if the shooter isn't even paying attention?
It's not like he's gonna try harder to get a good hit if he's on 2. You're either trying to get a hit or not. At least that's my experience. If you are intentionally missing, you are still giving up ball in hand
Another thing - why should somebody lose for fouling unintentionally? The idea of the game is to make the Money Ball not play hide and seek.....just sayin. What other game has a silly @$$ rule like this? I can't think of any
How does the guy in the chair get punished for not paying attention if the shooter isn't even paying attention?
It's not like he's gonna try harder to get a good hit if he's on 2. You're either trying to get a hit or not. At least that's my experience. If you are intentionally missing, you are still giving up ball in hand
Another thing - why should somebody lose for fouling unintentionally? The idea of the game is to make the Money Ball not play hide and seek.....just sayin. What other game has a silly @$$ rule like this? I can't think of any
Snooker has a similar rule
Non "pool/billiards/snooker" game
You again, are skirting the integrity part of it.
Are any of us required to do the right thing by informing them they are doing something wrong or letting them know we did something like fouled 2nd time? No we are not REQUIRED to do it. But should we do it out of good sportsmanship? Absolutely, because as people of integrity, we want to win knowing we did it without "getting by with one" against our opponent.
I think this is more to avoid a stalemate in 9 ball, particularly at the higher levels. In 8 ball, if I keep hitting safe shots to get you to foul it is because I am working my balls for the run out. Eventually, I will either mess up and you do it or the more likely scenario is that I get you to foul a couple times and then run out.
Pools is a game
That is how the game is played. If it were a sport there would be less bullsh%t.
Nick
That is how the game is played. If it were a sport there would be less bullsh%t.
Nick
I think it's admirable to call a foul on yourself each time it happens. However, it is the responsibility of your opponent (or a ref) to keep track of how many fouls you are on and to inform you when you are on two fouls. Therefore if you foul the third time under those circumstances, even if you call the third foul on yourself, it should not be loss of game. But your opponent can wake up at that point and tell you that you're on two and your next foul (your 4th) would be loss of game.
The rule that you have to notify your opponent when they're on two is there for 2 reasons: to reduce the number of arguments about whether the 3rd foul is actually the 3rd consecutive foul and to make it impossible to blindside the shooter with a 3-foul. I have never seen a 3-foul where the shot played immediately before the 3rd foul wasn't played without the possibility of a 3-foul in mind, so it's not really about the guy in the chair paying attention; it's about them making their intentions known when they play the safety to set up the possible third foul.
I can come up with at least a couple situations where knowing that I was on two fouls would affect my shot choice: a very thin cut, a kick at less than the full ball, a shot that involves the cue ball just barely missing an obstructing ball, a 3 rail kick at a hanger, etc. Basically, any sort of high risk/high reward shot when there is another shot available that would make a good hit more likely is less attractive if you are also risking an immediate loss of game.
To answer your last question, the 3-foul rule is there to prevent a drawn-out series of intentional fouls or a stalemate. IMO, it really discourages intentionally risking a 2nd consecutive foul because the risk of unintentionally committing a 3rd foul is too high.
All really good stuff right here imo
So I think this touching on both parties answer to the OP question, including the OP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mHjvFpsjLk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mHjvFpsjLk
I would not, and I think it did happen to me, I was on three, guy never called it. The foul may be tough to notice, especially if it's a double-hit or something close to call, but once you foul, well, they know you fouled. It's not up to you to make sure the other guy is paying attention to what is going on at the table. Only time this would change is if the player was new to the game or 9 ball rules in general, then you should inform them of the rule to make sure they know about it.
Who says that it's "the right thing" to help your opponent?
Been that way forever Matt..It is not your job to make sure your opponent is paying attention!..If your integrity is such, that you feel compelled to call fouls on yourself..you will not survive gambling at pool!...Now 'funsies' is a different matter entirely!..
:grin:
I play in a 14.1 league where most of the players don't know all the rules. Well, maybe nobody knows all the rules. Anyway, when I'm on two fouls and my opponent is saying nothing as I come to the table, I tell them about the rule. Usually they go ahead and tell me I'm on two.
The problem with straight pool is that it might be a rack or two since your last foul and it's easy to forget that it was your second. There is less of that problem at rotation games.
It would be useful to have a card for each player, red on one side and yellow on the other. Yellow up for one foul, red up for two. Then no warning would be needed.
Another wrinkle is that at straight pool you sometimes want to be on two fouls. It's rare and you have play at a fairly high level -- run racks often -- but it can be to your advantage.