Opinions/suggestions

RiverCity said:

CueTable Help


What about playing a safety?
This is a one hole kick shot, that would serve this situation well.
Chuck
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I think its too difficult to play this safety jacked up and control both balls. Plus if you hit it poorly, you put the 8 and 9 closer together making it easier for your opponent. The rail first shot it tough as well, but if the safety is just as difficult as the shot, I take the shot and give myself a chance to win. JMO.

Southpaw
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
With all due respect, if we were playing 1-hole, this shot might have merit. However, since it's 9-ball, I just don't see the risk outweighing the reward. Getting out from here actually appears to be a more likely occurance than successfully playing this safety. I could be wrong.
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I agree with this. I don't mind playing safe but with only 2 balls on the table I'm not going to push that 8 down near the 9. Jacked up like that I don't want to promise myself that the 8 isn't going to fall short and end up in front of that pocket.
MULLY
 
To each his own. I know for me, the safe is a much higher percentage shot, giving a better chance for the win.
I could get out from there maybe 3-4 times out of 10. Out of those 3 to 4 times, I may get a GOOD shot on the 9 where I didnt have to sweat the money ball, I may not, and then have to look for a bank or thin cut. On the other hand I can hit the safe 6+ times out of 10, and like my chances of the opponent not getting out from the 8 ball and the cue ball on opposite end rails.
Chuck
 
...do you also agree with the huge potential for caroming off of that 8 and going straight into the other corner pocket with the CB?
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No. It's virtually impossible - you'd have to be able to stun the cue ball to do that, and you don't even have that option shooting over the 9.

pj
chgo
 
RiverCity said:

CueTable Help


What about playing a safety?
This is a one hole kick shot, that would serve this situation well.
Chuck
Click to expand...

In what way is that safe? In the "you're leaving a decent shot on the 8 with doable position on the 9" sense of the word safe? I think you're far better off going for even an extremely difficult out than leaving that shot for a decent player.

-Andrew
 
Andrew Manning said:
In what way is that safe? In the "you're leaving a decent shot on the 8 with doable position on the 9" sense of the word safe? I think you're far better off going for even an extremely difficult out than leaving that shot for a decent player.

-Andrew
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The original way of getting out, is filled with bad possibilities. I would love to see someone make that consistently without practicing it first multiple times. Jacked up over the 9, shooting a table length rail first shot with side spin..... not conducive to a consistent make.
In the safety shot that I posted..... again, I would love to see someone make it with shape on the 9 consistently.
People tend to overestimate their abilities, or what is in the realm of likelihood. The odds on original shot suck. The odds for the opponent pocketing the 8 where I left it suck. If someone pulls off a hail mary, so be it.
I wont pull the trigger on something I know is foolhardy, when there is a relatively easy safe to be had, that gives a good shot at getting back to the table.
Chuck
 
I wouldn't call that an "easy safety" by any means. Same things apply. You're shooting over a ball the length of the table and then you're saying that your speed and accuracy is so good under those conditions that you're definitely going to hit that 8 full on, kill the cue ball, and not come up a little short or a little long and leave a straight in shot or a cut? I'm not saying the safety is a bad shot, all I'm saying is that that safety is about as 100% as any other prospect people have been throwing out.

And the original way of getting out, the way I posted and the way I did it, was a direct hit on the 8-ball and forcing it 2 cushions. Also not the easiest thing in the world. I got out with a really thin cut on the 9 but I wasn't too thrilled about having to shoot it.
MULLY
 
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IMHO.....If given 100 attempts at that rail first shot on the 8 on equipment in reasonably good condition I'd estimate that a competent player would make the 8 a minimum of 80 times, make contact with at least two rails after the pot at least 70 of those 80 times, make contact with 3 rails at least half of those 70 times and scratch in the opposite corner that the original poster is worried about no more than an absolute maximum of 5 times. Jacked up I think its actually quite difficult to make the 8 rail first and scratch in the corner even if you tried.......a scratch in the side after coming round the angles may even be a more likely scratch than in the corner.

The rail first shot with as smooth a stroke as you can muster jacked up seems to be the percentage shot and is obviously easier the better the condition of the balls/cloth.

Note.......if you play the rail first shot on such a bad angle that you hit the short rail jaw with the 8 and fail to make it there is then a higher chance of a scratch in the corner.

PS, forgot to mention......................I don't think there's any absolute need for side on the rail first shot.
 
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I haven't been to the pool hall since I put this up but yeah, I'm going to try all the suggestions here. Even the safety. Either way you do it though I think it's going to be a tough out. I don't see getting 3 cushions after contacting the 8 and falling on the far side of the 9. I could be wrong though. Will give it a shot.
MULLY
will take 10 tries on each shot and see what happens

and thanks to everyone that has tossed an opinion in the ring
 
RiverCity said:
The original way of getting out, is filled with bad possibilities. I would love to see someone make that consistently without practicing it first multiple times. Jacked up over the 9, shooting a table length rail first shot with side spin..... not conducive to a consistent make.
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I agree with you here.

RiverCity said:
In the safety shot that I posted..... again, I would love to see someone make it with shape on the 9 consistently.
People tend to overestimate their abilities, or what is in the realm of likelihood.
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I guess I may be guilty of overestimating my abilities, but I think a B player should get out from the safety you diagrammed over half the time. The position is natural, all you have to do is make the 8. It's a tough shot, but I don't think it's less than 50/50 for a decent player.

-Andrew
 
Andrew Manning said:
I guess I may be guilty of overestimating my abilities, but I think a B player should get out from the safety you diagrammed over half the time. The position is natural, all you have to do is make the 8. It's a tough shot, but I don't think it's less than 50/50 for a decent player.

-Andrew
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Yeah, looking at the layout, after the safety, diagram I felt that I was favored to get out from there. The only thing to be careful for is that scratch in the upper corner. Hitting it so thin against the rail like that is perfect for going up and down the table again for shape on the 9. I don't specifically practice going up and down the table but I do practice that thin cut along the rail from up table all the time.

Jude gave the answer I agree with the most though:
Yeah, you're not going to find any good answer on this. It's just a crappy place to be. The follow you'll put on the cueball SHOULD keep you from scratching. However, you're still taking a risk since the cueball's path is going to be somewhat unpredictable.
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MULLY
but hey, my original question asked for all opinions so I should at least thank everyone that got involved in this. I'm not against any of the opinions that have been given. Just stating my point of view on them.
 
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My simple thought (before reading all the replies) was rail in with some left of the ball.

But..I blow this kinda shot quite a bit,gonna go give it try a few times and report back in a few.

I love these diagram quizes....always learnin sumtin.
 
av84fun said:
No pipe dream re: hitting the middle of the foot rail. That's where the cb goes...but you'd have to pound it fairly hard...jacked up not being helpful...to get the CB to travel that far.

But rail first is the only reasonable shot.

Regards,
Jim
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I just gave it a good honest ten of so goes with half a tip of left or so,rail first.What av84 says is spot on.

I did however find myself coming up short,as in a damn awkward shot left on the nine,but I was on the right end of the table lol.

Out of those ten shots I made most eights,nailed the shot leaving a relatively easy nine just once though (see the diagram).Heck, once I managed to hit the bottom rail and come right up for nine with only the bottom rail hit after the 8 lol....that one I have no idea wtf happened...but it looked sweet.

Also,per my very short and fast look at this shot,some left and rail first aint gonna scratch in the oppisite corner.
But getting square enough on the nine was a bear for me.
 
Ok, so it's been taken to a table and tried. So, your final answer is that even though rail first seems the best way you still end up tough on the 9 more often than not?
MULLY
 
So, your final answer is that even though rail first seems the best way you still end up tough on the 9 more often than not?
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Well,yes that's the case...but I was dead cold.Just went to the table and did this for a few minutes.I haven't hit a ball in two days otherwise.

Also...and most importantly ...see my sig lol.

Seriously,with a little more stroke it gets there....even I did it once(not counting the one that shot off the bottom rail).I did find it helpful to not "jack up" and just hit what little cue ball I could see with the cue as level as possible.

Mully,I suspect you will get to the nine more often then not imo.Post back when you get back to a table...I'm truely curious as to how you will see this shot after this thread.

Best of luck,(and great thread)
TBall
 
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Yeah, I'll give it a go tomorrow night. Being Friday and all I'll be going to the pool room. Glad you gave it a shot and reported back though.
MULLY
 
Ok, I set her up and found that you guys were 100% correct in that going rail first was the best option. I didn't count how many times I tried it, probably a dozen or so, and found that the biggest problem was just making the 8, which wasn't that much of a problem. I jawed the pocket 2 or 3 times. I got decent position on the 9 all but 2 times but it seemed as if I hit the 8 a little fuller than I wanted to, which took some of the forward momentum off of the cue ball. When it hit well though getting around to the 9 wasn't a problem. I'd say it was about 80% in favor of getting a good shot on the 9. The scratch wasn't even there......neither is that safety. Sorry, but with Cuetable you can diagram anything you want. With the way this shot is set up there ain't no way you're hitting that 8 ball full enough to kill the cue ball up there.

Anyway, my test of this shot was done on a Brunswick Metro with Simonis 760 cloth and Brunswick Centennial balls.

If this shot comes up again during a game I will definitely look at rail first as my first option.

Thank you to everyone involved and thanks to the people that took it to the table and gave it a shot.
MULLY
 
Agree. a nice clean and accurate hit off the rail will not scratch. The cueball, struck with appropriate speed, will have picked up sufficient overspin during its trip to the eight to cause it to take the path as drawn by Jude.

_Rick
 
Hmmm...I did not see any suggestion of just pocketing the 8 and playing the bank on the 9 to the same pocket.

Seems like being jacked up and juicing the CB like that could lead to a jarred 8 and or very unpredictable shape on the 9-ball.

He said you could get to a rail in the OP...so how about just a smooth follow two rails out and take your chances on banking the 9-ball.

You have been practicing your banks for when you need them havenet you????? ;)
 
Well, the bank is an option. But from what I saw last night I think the rail first is higher percentage. You can jaw that bank just as easily as jawing the rail first shot. The bank is there though. I actually like that bank too....but I think I'd stick with the rail first shot. hehe!!
MULLY
 
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