Opinions wanted

cueman said:
Capitalism is a two way street. I never heard any American cuemaker complain when Japan was buying nearly every high dollar cue we could produce. Now that the Japan market is down I hear a lot of complaining about foreign cues being imported. But have we not been the exporters of quality cues for decades? And right along side of that our country has always been a consumer of foreign products like cues and such that were cheaper. So should we be against those who want to export to us? If we export and don't import there will be a different kind of trade unbalance.
Something that I think would be good for most Americans and Canadians would be to go on a mission trip or volunteer with a humantiarian group and go visit poorer countries. Just like us they are trying to survive the best they can. And what we would consider just getting by, most of them would consider it living in luxury. It also brings home the fact that we are no better than anyone else. We are all humans and just trying to do the best we can on this fallen planet. I know the rich take advantage of workers in many of those countries and therefore have tremendous advantages over us on selling prices. But my heart still goes out to the workers there that are doing what they have to in order to provide for their families. I do not know which lathe maker this thread was originally made for, but there are not many of us lathe makers. But I bet that if it is one of the well established ones that they export a good many lathes. I know since the dollar has weakened that I now export more lathes than I used to.
Politically and morally these things bring up some really tough issues and I do not know the answers and the more I think on these things the more questions I have instead of answers.
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I agreed with 99% of your statement and perhaps because I do have the experience of knowing how other real people live and dream in other countries I sympathize. Therefore when I see things that are being done strictly for money with disregard for the common good it upsets me.

The word business in this country has been serving as an umbrella for all kinds of criminal, and plain destructive behavior which for the most part remain unpunished. (Wall Street, banking, ) etc.

And yes it brings up more questions than answers. Those that have all the easy answers are usually part of the problem. IT is not the well stablished lathe maker you mentioned or you for that fact. Here again insignificant to identify. It is the process I'm questioning, selling a lathe and at the same time helping to destroy the market for the product it will produce.

Mario

Mario
 
KJ Cues said:
Ah, I see said the blind-man.
Mario, you make an interesting rant, but to what avail?
Is it the person you object to or is it the policy?
I don't see that any laws are being broken and ethics are a personal thing.
We all have our own set.

As far as selling lathes to unsuspecting wannabe cue-makers, well, I'd say buyer beware.
1/2 of the buyers don't have 1/2 a clue about buying a lathe let alone how to operate it.
All they know is that they are going to buy a lathe and be a CM from here on out.
They want to make lots of money to feed their family and pay their bills but don't want
to get the education & experience to actually pull it off.
It's so much easier to just log-on to AZB and start asking questions.
Doesn't work that way. You either pay your dues or pay the price.
I have no sympathy for the whiners & criers. They did it to themselves by thinking they
could jump to the head of the class with short-cuts and rose colored glasses.
When the big dream hits the toilet, they start looking for someone to blame.
In the end, they do get some education. "Unsuspecting buyer's", not really. Just unrealistic.

I'm not so quick to blame the lathe seller. It's not his job to evaluate the buyer's credentials & experience.
Granted it would be to his advantage, so that he can prepare himself for the amount of questions on operation,
etc. that he will encounter but in the end, he's not selling an education, he's selling a tool.
It's up to the buyer to know how to use it.

As far as the Billiards cues, I believe that if there were sufficient market, CMs in this
country would be on it. As you've pointed-out, it's a very small niche market.
Dieckman did it and maybe a few others but they would be a select group.
Nobody's preventing American CMs from building Billiard cues. They just don't want to.

You made a statement that I now find interesting. I asked you about the Ferrari dealership and you responded by saying you'd keep the dealership but take one of the Ferraris apart to see why it's such a great car.
Then you'd build a car based on that gleaned knowledge.
Isn't that pretty much the same thing that the new lathe builders did to Chris Hightower?
They got a hold of one of his lathes and copied it, almost bolt for bolt.
So.........do you want to be the kettle or do you want to be the pot???

KJ
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:) The Ferrari statement was made in gest :) and also expressing the need to put America back to work.

I want to be the boiling water :)

You're right about what was done to Chris Hightower..not nice. Here again competition breeds new ideas when done responsibly and everybody benefits eventually.

Diekman and others have stopped because they could not make a living.

KC, I'm going to try and bring this into a more personal level. We in this part of the forum deal with lots of newbies, dreamers, realist, and whatever else. We're the bait for the fishies. Unfortunately, lots of fishes get taken advantage of by people selling, bad shaft wood, new untried lathes, and other gimmicks. Every transaction is like a wave of bad results. Now, what are we, you and I selling, and what responsibility do we carry. Are we to clarify all the crap that gets sold or do we just keep bring fishies aboard and let buyer beware.
Lots of post are like self serving info-commercials..a lot of good knowledgeable people have left this section.

The lathe maker has not taken any responsibilty for promoting and selling a machine that produces a product whos market he destroys at the same time in his cross country trips.

I'm asking for a more responsible way of conducting ourselves, and treating others.

Mario
 
Mcues said:
A specialty cue lathe maker goes around the country promoting his products which end up in the hands of American cuemakers, wannabe's, repairman, and future cuemakers. At the same time he promotes lines of foreign Billiard cue makers. Is there something wrong with this? Honest question...no flaming please.

Mario
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No,not at all.Anyone of any creed, country,color or billiard back round should have the equal right within the boundaries of the forum or anywhere else to promote or try to sell what he or she pleases.Its up to the public or the potential buyers to dig up the proper information on the product and the person and make an educated decision whether they want to buy it or not.Its Capitalism at its finest and really not an issue...imho.Takecare:)
 
"It is the process I'm questioning, selling a lathe and at the same time helping to destroy the market for the product it will produce."

OK, 21 posts later we now know why you started this thread.
Had you said this in post #1, we'd have had an idea where you are coming from.
When you speak in generalities, you're likely to get non-specific answers/opinions.
Let's put this puppy to rest.

This mystery lathe seller can't scratch the surface of the cue market.
He's a single seller, selling a few European Billiards cue to a niche market.
Who really cares that he happens to also sell lathes. I know I don't.
I own a machine shop. A cue specific lathe would only take-up space and collect dust
in my shop. I have no use for one.
I don't build or sell Billiards cues so this seller's activities present no threat to me.
Even if he were selling European POOL cues, still no threat.
I don't make my money building and selling cues. I make my money doing custom work on
everybody elses cues. True, I do build cues but it's not for the money. I know better.

Again Mario, while it's admirable that you would consider the ethical nature of this
seller and how his activities 'could' affect his lathe clients, the reality is that they don't.
He sells cues to a specific niche market that quite frankly, we have no interest in.
As I stated previously, those cues have to come from somewhere.
You could also look at this as he is providing a service, selling quality Billiards cues
that in all rights may be difficult to come by in this country. It's a matter of perception.
I really don't see that he's harming anyone.

Your principles are honorable. You should save them for an issue that's worthy of them.
In other words, choose your battles wisely.

KJ
 
Last edited:
KJ Cues said:
"It is the process I'm questioning, selling a lathe and at the same time helping to destroy the market for the product it will produce."

OK, 21 posts later we now know why you started this thread.
Had you said this in post #1, we'd have had an idea where you are coming from.
When you speak in generalities, you're likely to get non-specific answers/opinions.
Let's put this puppy to rest.

This mystery lathe seller can't scratch the surface of the cue market.
He's a single seller, selling a few European Billiards cue to a niche market.
Who really cares that he happens to also sell lathes. I know I don't.
I own a machine shop. A cue specific lathe would only take-up space and collect dust
in my shop. I have no use for one.
I don't build or sell Billiards cues so this seller's activities present no threat to me.
Even if he were selling European POOL cues, still no threat.
I don't make my money building and selling cues. I make my money doing custom work on
everybody elses cues. True, I do build cues but it's not for the money. I know better.

Again Mario, while it's admirable that you would consider the ethical nature of this
seller and how his activities 'could' affect his lathe clients, the reality is that they don't.
He sells cues to a specific niche market that quite frankly, we have no interest in.
As I stated previously, those cues have to come from somewhere.
You could also look at this as he is providing a service, selling quality Billiards cues
that in all rights may be difficult to come by in this country. It's a matter of perception.
I really don't see that he's harming anyone.

Your principles are honorable. You should save them for an issue that's worthy of them.
In other words, choose your battles wisely.

KJ
Click to expand...

To rest it is..we've both have found lots of details as to each others characters and views. I consider progress has been made, peacefully. :) Always a pleasure,

Mario
 
I wonder what would happen to Haas Machinery if they sold import parts at the manufacturing shows.
Joey~ Thinks if you sell machinery and make the ocean deeper for the buyers to sink, more would sink~
 
JoeyInCali said:
I wonder what would happen to Haas Machinery if they sold import parts at the manufacturing shows.
Joey~ Thinks if you sell machinery and make the ocean deeper for the buyers to sink, more would sink~
Click to expand...

Joey,

You are forever surprising. :)

Mario
 
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