Opponent conceding by knocking in 8/9 with hand, etc.

It's funny how different people view this type of thing. When playing certain opponents in the tournaments I play in, it's almost considered sharking to LET THEM shoot in an easy 9 ball! Conceding a final shot is usually a sign of respect. Making them shoot an easy shot is almost an insult. The player's skill level does come into play, though. A shot you might concede to one player can be dogged quite often by others. Each situation and each match-up is a little different.

What do you do if you tell another player lining up on a game-winning 9 ball, "That's good", but then he shoots anyway and misses it? I think it should be considered a refusal of the concession and be counted as a miss.
 
No No No

gwvavases said:
It's funny how different people view this type of thing. When playing certain opponents in the tournaments I play in, it's almost considered sharking to LET THEM shoot in an easy 9 ball! Conceding a final shot is usually a sign of respect. Making them shoot an easy shot is almost an insult. The player's skill level does come into play, though. A shot you might concede to one player can be dogged quite often by others. Each situation and each match-up is a little different.

What do you do if you tell another player lining up on a game-winning 9 ball, "That's good", but then he shoots anyway and misses it? I think it should be considered a refusal of the concession and be counted as a miss.
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Sorry but you would never get away with that. Just you saying that while he is stroking is a forfeit by you in itself no matter what he does. Just saying that while he is stroking may be cause for any number of things to happen with his stroke so there is no way you could get away with that. If there was such a rule you could never lose by using the loophole by doing it every game he has an easy shot on the 9. The only outcome would be to your benefit. That suggestion is making me LOL.
 
gwvavases said:
What do you do if you tell another player lining up on a game-winning 9 ball, "That's good", but then he shoots anyway and misses it? I think it should be considered a refusal of the concession and be counted as a miss.
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"That's good", means just that. I like the rule that says no conceding a game or it costs another game as well. I've only seen it in big tournaments, such as the Open, and at the Bicycle Club in California years ago, and I think it's good for the spectators. Also, ya never know when that moment is going to come when your opponent IS going to miss that hanger!
 
Billy_Bob said:
Just playing for fun... But I also play this guy in tournaments.

He is one of a kind and I have not met anyone else like him.

Actually I have a bit of psychology under my belt... I enjoy watching this guy and listening to what he says to other players. I have seen him totally destroy his opponents confidence with his "mouth".

I assure you each and every word out of his mouth has one goal, and only one goal. That is winning.

Most other players don't know what he is doing, they will say: "I can't understand why I can't pocket a ball all of a sudden!" They don't understand that they have been the target of a well thought out psychological attack.
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LOL did you ever stop to think that perhaps the reason why you beat him "just playing for fun" is because the guy can't and won't bear down playing for nothing? You have nothing to be proud of, not until you beat this guy playing for something. Even then you shouldn't be "proud" because you just killed your action!

I wonder why pool attracts such egotistical players. Players that, no matter how the match goes, all they care about is winning. They could play the most terrible game of their life, and get left the 9 hanging in the hole every game by their opponent, and to win like that makes them feel good. Any win makes them feel good. They need all the pride and glory of winning.

Myself personally, if I win a match playing terrible, I hate it, I don't feel good about anything (mainly tournaments). I have always been more concerned with my performance than anything. I want to play solid all throughout the match. If I play solid and still lose, I am happy. I have played against pros just shooting around "for fun", like Tang Hoa, Santos Sambajon, Jose Parica, Max Eberle, Dave Hemmah, Ernesto Dominguez, etc. Every time I won a game against one of them, nobody saw me go dancing around the room saying "I beat a pro nya nya nya"

Billy Bob, I think you need to look at the game in a different light, or quit playing for a while. For you to be upset when a good player "gives" you the match by conceding is one of the dumbest things I've heard of in a long time. You wanted to shoot that last ball because you wanted people there to see you shoot that last ball, it wasn't for yourself. But let me give you a quick explanation that NOBODY that was there watching, GAVE A CRAP about you beating a guy playing for nothing. When you learn to start betting something, then you will realize how much of a blessing it is sometimes when a player concedes a game, because when your nerves are rattled the easiest shot becomes tougher.
 
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Conceding a ball

I learned my lesson at Derby City a couple of years ago. I was playing Danny Harriman in the 9 ball tournament and was up a couple of games when I missed a 9 ball leaving it in the pocket with the cueball a foot away. I said "that's good" and went over to rack the balls. I noticed Harriman looking at me strangely and not saying anything. I got the rack and the balls but I still hadn't touched the 9 or the cueball. As soon as I did, he walked away and came back with a tournament official. He got that win and they took a game away from me. The match went to the wire but he ended up winning.

The lesson I learned: 1. make sure you know the rules of the tournament
2. make sure you know your opponent.

Most good players would not do what he did but he had the right to because I did break the rule. (I still think it was chickenshit on his part and not something I would ever do, so I cheer against him but I also understand it was his right and there are others that would do the same under the circumstances.)

Wayne
 
wayne said:
Most good players would not do what he did but he had the right to because I did break the rule. (I still think it was chickenshit on his part and not something I would ever do, so I cheer against him but I also understand it was his right and there are others that would do the same under the circumstances.)

Wayne
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Wayne,
Not to make you feel worse but this year at DCC the same rule was in effect; I saw several different matches involving top players where the 9- ball was conceded - no one said a thing, no penalties were assessed. They really ought to enforce it or ditch it. A rule is a rule, not a suggestion - it cheapens the game if players are ignoring the rules (ask Pete Rose).
 
Billy Bob, I think you need to look at the game in a different light, or quit playing for a while. For you to be upset when a good player "gives" you the match by conceding is one of the dumbest things I've heard of in a long time
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I agree with that

To my eyes this no conceding rules are exagerated or at least should be modified like , you can only concede a game when there are only 1 or 2 balls left or something like that.
 
Excellent post, LastTwo. Behavior that tries to "show up" a player is a good way to lose a playing partner.

I'm one of the better players who chooses to frequent my home room, and when I play, I play for hours on end. Since I play for 7 or 8 hours at a time, my playing partner will change frequently, and I'll pretty much play with anyone, whether it's a pro-caliber player or some banger off the street. Occasionally, I'll get some random numbnut who doesn't understand the things LastTwo talked about in his post.

There's a guy I used to play with on a league team (I no longer play with his team) who actually ran around the room (not the table, the ENTIRE room!) to tell everyone he won a game when we were practicing one night. It was one game out of about 20, not a race, just A GAME. This guy is an APA SL3, so he's no world-beater. Now, when he asks to play and I don't have a playing partner, I tell him, "I'm just practicing alone today, thanks anyway." I've heard him walk back to his friends telling them that I won't play with him because he beat me the last time he played me. He doesn't mention that it was only one game out of 20 or so, and I dogged a 9 at that (which I subsequently conceded). Just that he beat me, implying that he won a race or something. I let him have his little fun - if that's what it takes to stroke his little ego, he can have it, but he'll never play with me again.

If somehow we did play again, I would never concede any ball to him, not even a hanger. I think it's universally understood between better players that conceding balls is a sign of respect. I have no respect for that guy, therefore I would never concede a ball to him.

I think there ought to be some rules/guidelines for beginners/bangers about pool etiquette so there can't be misunderstandings. Conceding a ball during play-play is ok, but generally is not during a tournament since it can be used as a sharking technique (players can start to expect balls to be conceded, then they're not, or Earl's habit of late of raking in 5 or 6 balls after a miss). If somebody does concede a ball to me during a tournament, it's always quickly followed by a thanks because I recognize it for what it is - a sign of respect for my playing ability. It's ridiculous that something better players do as a sign of respect is seen by some as anything else. I think once beginners/bangers get past being beginners/bangers they'll realize that, but maybe there ought to be some unwritten rules written to enlighten them sooner.

-djb
 
DC,

Do you really think it would help? People like the guy you described above wouldn't attribute the written words with his behaviors anyway. Let's face it, there are a@@holes out there, plenty of them and the door at the pool hall doesn't keep them out!
 
Williebetmore said:
Wayne,
Not to make you feel worse but this year at DCC the same rule was in effect; I saw several different matches involving top players where the 9- ball was conceded - no one said a thing, no penalties were assessed. They really ought to enforce it or ditch it. A rule is a rule, not a suggestion - it cheapens the game if players are ignoring the rules (ask Pete Rose).
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Thanks for the info, that is what I figured most players would do.

I believe the purpose of the rule is to maintain the integrity of the game and maybe prevent sharking or gamesmanship. Harriman's conduct was unsportsmanlike but within the rules. I don't know if he is always anal (I have heard he is a nice guy) or whether it was just the circumstances. He had won the bank pool competition and had a good chance to win the overall so the fact he was losing to me may have put him in a desperation mode.

I have had worse rules violations called on me in tournament play so I just take each of them as a lesson learned (they only hurt at the moment of the call or shortly thereafter). Also, I remember it to get revenge on that opponent and I have often succeeded at some later time.

One example was a person called a foul on me because my tip touched the cueball while lining up a ball in hand shot. I later in the match 3 fouled them twice to win games which I would not have done if I wasn't steamed about the ticky-tack foul.

Wayne
 
DoomCue said:
There's a guy I used to play with on a league team (I no longer play with his team) who actually ran around the room (not the table, the ENTIRE room!) to tell everyone he won a game when we were practicing one night. It was one game out of about 20, not a race, just A GAME. This guy is an APA SL3, so he's no world-beater.
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Hi DC,

I posted this earlier on a thread. I played in a small local tournament (one of the last for me). One of the local bar box players beat me in a race to two, eight ball. When the second eight dropped, he raised his cue in the air and ran around the entire room shouting. There were probably ten or twelve matches still playing. I guess those guys are everywhere. Incidently, he couldn't beat me a long race on his best and luckiest day. Small or large table.
 
I gave up on Bar Tournaments a long time ago. Anybody can get lucky in a single game or race to 2 format. I have also had guys beat me in that format who could never beat me in a race of any length and wouldn't play for a nickel when asked to do so.
 
'that's Good'

In A Recent Usppa Tournament I Chose To Shoot A Little Back Cut 9 Ball Up On The End Rail. My Opponent Had Said 'thats Good' , I Replied: 'the Way I'm Shooting, Make Me Hit This.' I Missed. I Lost
That Game And Eventually The Race To 8.

Worse, In Hindsight I Realize That I Did Not Show My Opponent The Respect That He Had Shown Me By Offering The Concession.

Ed, My Apologies.

I've Learned Something Today From This Thread. Thank You.
 
Not enough good sportsmanship in pool.......

3 years ago I had a gesture of good sportsmanship given to me, and I have never forgotten it. It was a VNEA team event in Georgia is a semi-final match against what was considered the best team in the tourney. I was the 25th game and had to break and run to win the match. I made a ball and proceded to shoot a ball, take a breath, shoot a ball, take a breath.....nervous as could be. I ended up perfect on the 8 and my opponent got up out of his chair and shook my hand without having to shoot it. I have always remembered his actions and considered it a classy move, especially in the mentality of bar box and league pool. I don't think there's enough of these kind of actions in our game. BTW we went on to win it all!!.
 
Guys,

I think some of you are missing a point. No event I've ever attended has penalized a player for conceding the set eight , nine or ten ball. I'm talking about during the match. If I'm straight in and a foot from the pocket on the set nine, I expect my opponent to "throw in the towel". I've done it. I bet all of you have. Mike Zuglan literally threw his hand towel on the table at the end of our match. If it's the third rack. NO way! Shoot it. Even local tournaments or head to head. I just don't believe in throwing them in. Yes, it is a statement of respect!
 
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