Ordering a new cue from a known cue maker. Should you order two wood shafts made or obtain one CF shaft?

Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
Silver Member
Everyone used to order two wood shafts with the new cue being made. BUT, now... most of us have gone with the better carbon fiber shaft made by the major cue makers. I've been convinced that Ned Morris Evolution C/F shafts are better and cheaper than REVO. Let's face it.... no sand paper, no powder and the shaft will last until eternity and will always stay slick and smooth without nicks if it's dropped.
 
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Everyone used to order two wood shafts with the new cue being made. BUT, now... most of us have gone with the better carbon fiber shaft made by the major cue makers. I've been convinced that Ned Morris Evolution C/F shafts are better than cheaper than REVO. Let's face it.... no sand paper, no powder and the shaft will last until eternity and will always stay slick and smooth without nicks if it's dropped.

Personal opinion but if I'm ordering a new cue I would get a shaft to my specs (12.7mm, extended pro taper) and a shaft at regular specs (13mm, standard pro taper) for resale. Not everyone wants my shaft specs and you can't add wood to make it a 13mm.

Your mileage may vary.

I had a chance to test one of his prototypes but was too busy in life at the time and I'm also not a CF fan (personal opinion), I've heard they hit good and he is, to me, one of the true old school builders so I can only imagine his CF shafts are high quality as well.
 
I would order two wood shafts, if I was in market for Carbon. Local guy who is old, retired, does custom Carbon Shafts for 200.00 bucks, if you want Super Tip the uncharged is 15-20 bucks.

Every person who has this guys no name CF Shafts Just loves.❤️
 
Everyone used to order two wood shafts with the new cue being made. BUT, now... most of us have gone with the better carbon fiber shaft made by the major cue makers. I've been convinced that Ned Morris Evolution C/F shafts are better than cheaper than REVO. Let's face it.... no sand paper, no powder and the shaft will last until eternity and will always stay slick and smooth without nicks if it's dropped.
Two wood shafts imho. You can get any carbon shaft you want later on. The market is flooded. Wood shafts especially with ring work that match up with your cue are getting harder to come by especially from top tier makers. Also if your going to use a CF shaft I don't see the point of a custom butt. I would just go production. Custom for me is old school wood all the way. When I drop some coin on a tasc definitely getting two wood 30 inch shafts from Pete.
 
I would order two wood shafts, if I was in market for Carbon. Local guy who is old, retired, does custom Carbon Shafts for 200.00 bucks, if you want Super Tip the uncharged is 15-20 bucks.

Every person who has this guys no name CF Shafts Just loves.❤️

I looked at the Ned Morris CF and some others, the shaft and finish did not look as good as the bigger names. While they all make a tube with a tip, there is still a difference in final quality, hit feel and deflection.

I had two favorites, the Revo and Ignite, after some time with new shafts at SBE I will add the OB Carbon as well, the ball pocketing was on the Revo level with a hit feel more like a natural wood shaft.

I had two cues made recently, neither of them I asked for shafts to be made, but I know for sure I won't be reselling either one of them so what a new owner may want was a moot point in my case. Plus the market for shafts from the cue maker is a lot less in demand now, I would say more pool players use some other shaft that did not come with their custom cue. Talking about actual custom cues here, not Predator, McDermott, etc... I just saw someone at SBE use a Black Boar, must have been well over a 10k cue, with a CF shaft.
 
You can add a CF shaft anytime after you get the cue. I’d get two original maple shafts from the cue maker.
Have him shape the shafts the way you want it but just request that the shafts weigh 3.8 - 4.1 ozs. each. The
cue maker just has to select the right shaft wood. The problem with getting 1 shaft of each is that the two will
play, feel and perform differently. The. defection allowance for aiming can screw up your performance switching
back & forth so get two original shafts made to your exact specifications. Get a CF shaft when you decide it’s time.
 
Lol, putting a cf shaft on a custom cue? That's just bonkers. Can't wait to see a 10 k black boar with a bargain basement Chinese carbon fiber shaft on it! If the cuemaker finishes it and adapts it to the cue or not is just not the point.:rolleyes: It's fucking sacrilege!

In a matter of time most cues will be "all" carbon anyway, shaft and butt. For a collectors item, I think I'd much rather have an all wood cue. As for playing, I want all wood there too, but if I were to go with carbon, it would be carbon all the way. When you pay custom prices, you should expect to get properly aged and selected wood shafts. Not some carbon blank the guy put a joint on. Just my opinion. Plastics and carbon fiber decay, quite badly with time. Properly cared for, a wooden cue could last almost forever.

You want carbon fiber, buy a Cuetec. Best bang for the buck. When you get sick of the "tink" and it starts to degrade, chuck it in the bin and buy another:rolleyes:. I'd love to see the look on the cuemakers face when he puts the chinese blank on his wonderfully crafted, aged and inlayed wood butt. That's got to be heartbreaking. Or maybe he doesn't care, I don't know him. I'd feel sick to my stomach, if it was me. If he actually manufactured the blank, it would be slightly different, but still...Kind of like a plywood or carbon violin.
 
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Lol, putting a cf shaft on a custom cue? That's just bonkers. Can't wait to see a 10 k black boar with a bargain basement Chinese carbon fiber shaft on it! If the cuemaker finishes it and adapts it to the cue or not is just not the point.:rolleyes: It's fucking sacrilege!

In a matter of time most cues will be "all" carbon anyway, shaft and butt. For a collectors item, I think I'd much rather have an all wood cue. As for playing, I want all wood there too, but if I were to go with carbon, it would be carbon all the way. When you pay custom prices, you should expect to get properly aged and selected wood shafts. Not some carbon blank the guy put a joint on. Just my opinion. Plastics and carbon fiber decay, quite badly with time. Properly cared for, a wooden cue could last almost forever.

You want carbon fiber, buy a Cuetec. Best bang for the buck. When you get sick of the "tink" and it starts to degrade, chuck it in the bin and buy another:rolleyes:. I'd love to see the look on the cuemakers face when he puts the chinese blank on his wonderfully crafted, aged and inlayed wood butt. That's got to be heartbreaking. Or maybe he doesn't care, I don't know him. I'd feel sick to my stomach, if it was me. If he actually manufactured the blank, it would be slightly different, but still...Kind of like a plywood or carbon violin.
It’s not bargain basement by any means, but I love the hit of my Becue shaft on my 10k Boar. My ferrule-less shaft from Tony plays great too don’t get me wrong.

Doesn’t bother me with my 5k Tascarella or my 4k SugarTree either.
 
I looked at the Ned Morris CF and some others, the shaft and finish did not look as good as the bigger names. While they all make a tube with a tip, there is still a difference in final quality, hit feel and deflection.
I have to assume you were fooled by the video. Ned's finish is absolutely first class. His cues perform the "hit" on the cue ball is as good as the best.
 
Lol, putting a cf shaft on a custom cue? That's just bonkers. Can't wait to see a 10 k black boar with a bargain basement Chinese carbon fiber shaft on it! If the cuemaker finishes it and adapts it to the cue or not is just not the point.:rolleyes: It's fucking sacrilege!

In a matter of time most cues will be "all" carbon anyway, shaft and butt. For a collectors item, I think I'd much rather have an all wood cue. As for playing, I want all wood there too, but if I were to go with carbon, it would be carbon all the way. When you pay custom prices, you should expect to get properly aged and selected wood shafts. Not some carbon blank the guy put a joint on. Just my opinion. Plastics and carbon fiber decay, quite badly with time. Properly cared for, a wooden cue could last almost forever.

You want carbon fiber, buy a Cuetec. Best bang for the buck. When you get sick of the "tink" and it starts to degrade, chuck it in the bin and buy another:rolleyes:. I'd love to see the look on the cuemakers face when he puts the chinese blank on his wonderfully crafted, aged and inlayed wood butt. That's got to be heartbreaking. Or maybe he doesn't care, I don't know him. I'd feel sick to my stomach, if it was me. If he actually manufactured the blank, it would be slightly different, but still...Kind of like a plywood or carbon violin.
Keep in mind some of these CF shafts cost more than a shaft you order from Black Boar or
pretty much most cue makers unless there ringwork involved that can be fancy and ornate.

And degrading…..uh, more likely degradation would occur earlier with a wood shaft versus
CF that last ad infinitum when cared for properly. If the cue forearm is ebony & has veneers,
the CF shaft looks awesome, even better than original wood shafts. CF has revolutionized pool.

Now some folks are set in their ways. Maybe they believe the old way of making cues wasn’t
broken so why change. They may think that one’s skills can accomplish as much with a wood
shaft as a CF shaft. Well, they’d be wrong in both instances. And allow me to set things straight.

I am one of those folks that subscribe to playing with wood shafts. Personally, the only black I
want in the appearance of any of my pool cues are ebony points and ebony butt. That’s just my
taste in cue designs which is basically more reminiscent of the old school motif. And then there’s
having to change after having only played with original maple shafts, not even LD laminated ones.

Changing would become awful since I no longer have a home table and limited availability of pool
halls because of COVID for over two years. Well, transitioning would be frustrating and also involve
years that I don’t have to waste when the status quo has worked just fine for the past six decades.

How many pro golfers still hit their driver using a rigid steel shaft versus an extra stiff synthetic shaft
that does not affect their accuracy but adds a great deal more distance that shortens the golf holes?

Amateurs may use a different flex but enjoy the distance advantage too. CF shafts offer an advantage
derived from equipment technology which is part of all sports. Otherwise men & women tennis players
today would still be playing tennis with Jack Kramer and Chris Everett model Wilson Wooden Rackets.
 
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I have to assume you were fooled by the video. Ned's finish is absolutely first class. His cues perform the "hit" on the cue ball is as good as the best.
I've had a hard time finding information on his CF shafts. Would you consider them LD, and how do you order one?
 
Everyone used to order two wood shafts with the new cue being made. BUT, now... most of us have gone with the better carbon fiber shaft made by the major cue makers. I've been convinced that Ned Morris Evolution C/F shafts are better and cheaper than REVO. Let's face it.... no sand paper, no powder and the shaft will last until eternity and will always stay slick and smooth without nicks if it's dropped.
So your statement is that you like the Evolution shaft. But your thread is asking a question, what would someone else would purchase?

Can I talk you out of this purchase? Or are you going back and forth with you?

Evolution it is...
 

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It’s not bargain basement by any means, but I love the hit of my Becue shaft on my 10k Boar. My ferrule-less shaft from Tony plays great too don’t get me wrong.

Doesn’t bother me with my 5k Tascarella or my 4k SugarTree either.
But then I've got to ask, what is the point? Why not just buy a Cuetec or a Becue? You're not getting a Black Boar playing experience anyway. You're getting a Becue. To me it would be a little like having a luxury gearstick in your Toyota. It's still a Toyota, Toyotas are great, but the gearstick is not really contributing much but looks, even if it came from a Rolls Royce. I mean, if you want to do it, nothing is stopping you and tastes are different. The fact that to me it looks ridiculous is just my opinion, nothing else.
Keep in mind some of these CF shafts cost more than a shaft you order from Black Boar or
pretty much most cue makers unless there ringwork involved that can be fancy and ornate.

And degrading…..uh, more likely degradation would occur earlier with a wood shaft versus
CF that last ad infinitum when cared for properly. If the cue forearm is ebony & has veneers,
the CF shaft looks awesome, even better than original wood shafts. CF has revolutionized pool.

Now some folks are set in their ways. Maybe they believe the old way of making cues wasn’t
broken so why change. They may think that one’s skills can accomplish as much with a wood
shaft as a CF shaft. Well, they’d be wrong in both instances. And allow me to set things straight.

I am one of those folks that subscribe to playing with wood shafts. Personally, the only black I
want in the appearance of any of my pool cues are ebony points and ebony butt. That’s just my
taste in cue designs which is basically more reminiscent of the old school motif. And then there’s
having to change after having only played with original maple shafts, not even LD laminated ones.

Changing would become awful since I no longer have a home table and limited availability of pool
halls because of COVID for over two years. Well, transitioning would be frustrating and also involve
years that I don’t have to waste when the status quo has worked just fine for the past six decades.

How many pro golfers still hit their driver using a rigid steel shaft versus an extra stiff synthetic shaft
that does not affect their accuracy but adds a great deal more distance that shortens the golf holes?

Amateurs may use a different flex but enjoy the distance advantage too. CF shafts offer an advantage
derived from equipment technology which is part of all sports. Otherwise men & women tennis players
today would still be playing tennis with Jack Kramer and Chris Everett model Wilson Wooden Rackets.
The comparison to tennis is not valid.

Pool cues are just sticks with a tip. Lets say you could put a tiny bit more power on a shot with a carbon fiber cue, which IMO has still to be proven (my own "research" does not show this at all) How much of a difference would that make to a persons game? IMO extremely little. Most people hit shots way too hard anyways and tables are getting every faster. After playing on Diamonds for a couple of tournaments years ago, I was actually considering putting some sort of dampening system on my cue! In the end I didn't but as the Diamonds are getting ever more prevalent, the issue has raised itself once again. The last thing I'd want on a tournament Diamond table is a cue that gives me more speed on the cue ball. Again, I've not seen any proof or noticed this when I tried myself, but if that WERE true, it still wouldn't constitute much of an advantage, is my point. For a BREAK cue, I'd agree that any increase would be a benefit, so if a power increase here were to be proven, that would be different.

Deflection...Yes, many people prefer low deflection. But then again, there are allready ld shafts, made of wood, with lower deflection than almost all CF shafts. They are not as popular as more deflecting cues. With the average bridge lengths of most players, those shafts will actually make you miss more straight in shots, due to pivot point effects. So unless your Alex Pagulayan or someone of similar stature, or just naturally have an extremely long bridge, deflection really isn't as big of a deal as you might think in favour of CF shafts. Wooden shafts will cover the entire range nicely.

Spend your money any way you want. IMO, break cues will be all carbon pretty soon and that may also be the case for playing cues. There are logistical and production reasons why this will be the case. My point was merely that putting a synthetic, machine made shaft on a meticulously handcrafted wooden cue, to me seems extremely ridiculous, especially given the pricing of such work. It also is a paradox when considering you're buying a hand crafted cue, which is driving the value of that item, the rarity and the fact that it is made by a known person, not some guy on an assembly line.
 
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I think you oversimplify and consequently misportray pool cues as sticks with just tips.
Even a simple Merry Widow cue involves some wood craftsmanship for balance & feel.

I think you unintentionally demean the art of cue making referring to them sticks with tips.
And BTW, who empowered you to simply out of hand dismiss the tennis racket analogy.

For the longest time, that’s all there was in tennis rackets before tubular steel was used.
The same applies to cue shafts. Now tennis rackets use composite materials construction.

Well, today cue shaft manufacture is changing just like what happened with tennis rackets.
CF shafts are here to stay & get ready because once you invite technology, you can’t stop it.
 
Have you priced original shafts from a cue maker recently? CF shafts actually can cost more.
So using one on a highly crafted cue butt hardly cheapens the cue, except the way you see it.
 
I think you oversimplify and consequently misportray pool cues as sticks with just tips.
Even a simple Merry Widow cue involves some wood craftsmanship for balance & feel.

I think you unintentionally demean the art of cue making referring to them sticks with tips.
And BTW, who empowered you to simply out of hand dismiss the tennis racket analogy.

For the longest time, that’s all there was in tennis rackets before tubular steel was used.
The same applies to cue shafts. Now tennis rackets use composite materials construction.

Well, today cue shaft manufacture is changing just like what happened with tennis rackets.
CF shafts are here to stay & get ready because once you invite technology, you can’t stop it.
The point is that the flexing (or not) of the pool cue doesn't contribute as much to the power as a tennis racket or golf club shaft. I don't have to be empowered to have an opinion. Whatever can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence, as Christopher Hitchens famously said. I've seen zero evidence that carbon shafts or cues have anywhere NEAR the same effects as changing a tennis racket into carbon from wood. So I don't have to be especially "empowered" by the high council of pool cue fanciers to dismiss claims of that nature. If evidence were to be provided, I'd test the claims, then revise or keep my opinion. So far, nothing but opinion and anecdotal evidence have been provided, so I provide my own, which you are likewise free to dismiss.

I'm far from demeaning pool cues, in fact I'm standing up for them. The cue maker is making a cue with the shaft and playability of the whole package in mind. It is YOU that demeans the work by putting an aftermarket shaft on it, thus destroying the intent of the cuemaker almost completely. It's not a "crime". I just think it's a shame, that's all. That is just my opinion, nothing more. Nobody is taking you to pool cue jail.

I don't want to stop technology. Specifically, I don't want to stop OTHERS from using fancy schmancy new tech if they want. Personally I'd much rather keep playing with more traditional equpiment. I'm not that guy who wants to ban cf. I'm just pointing out the absurdity of ordering a custom cue, at huge cost, then destroying it and making it into a cuetech or J-flowers. Lets say the cuemaker designed their cue around a carbon shaft that they themselves made. It would be different to some extent, but to me personally, it would still not be as desirable as an aged wooden shaft. To ME, that is all, I'm not claiming that this is some magical, universal truth.

BTW, arent you the guy always singing the praises of ivory joints? How does a synthetic carbon shaft fit into this? I'm only asking.
 
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Have you priced original shafts from a cue maker recently? CF shafts actually can cost more.
So using one on a highly crafted cue butt hardly cheapens the cue, except the way you see it.
Well "the way I see it" is the whole point of my post, isn't that the whole reason for posting on a forum such as this? Anyway, putting a high price on something doesn't necessarily make it a higher value to me, in the sense of making it desirable. A pool cue gets a high value in my eyes if it helps me play better or is beautifully crafted with materials that I like and that are rare. Secondarily comes the sentimental factor of liking the cuebuilder or admiring the process of cuemaking. So if someone suddenly cranked up the price of Cuetecs to 5k, I'd give zero fucks, no matter how many people bought them. If you are buying pool cues merely as a monetary investment, then I don't have anything to add, as I don't have much knowledge in that field. It seems risky to me, that is all I have to say on that front.
 
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I've seen zero evidence that carbon shafts or cues have anywhere NEAR the same effects as changing a tennis racket into carbon from wood.
The evolution of tennis racquets changed the game. I feel my CF shaft is better than wood shafts but not what I would consider revolutionary. I get low deflection but without giving up accuracy. I've played with a low deflection wood shaft (314-3) and felt I was giving up accuracy. I've played with wood shafts that seemed to make potting balls effortless. With the carbon I have both. I don't feel like I gain noticeable power, if any. There may be an LD wood shaft that I can shoot as accurately, to be honest, I would prefer one if I could perform as well. The hit feels better to me and I prefer the feel of wood sliding on my bridge hand. At some point I will probably try another wood shaft but I'm still learning this carbon shaft. It's even possible that after learning to shoot sidespin with this shaft, I will be able to adapt to with shafts with more deflection.
 
I’d order two old school shafts, and that is the aircraft mechanic in me wanting redundancy in case I have a failure of the primary shaft. You always gotta have a backup plan!
 
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