Our Weekly 9-Ball Tournament - Rule Changes Working

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
For those of you that have followed my previous posts, where I asked for opinions regarding conflicts in our weekly 9-ball handicapped tournament, I made the decision last week, after receiving numerous helpful posts, to return back to old fashioned Texas Express 9-ball rules - anything goes. Yes, we have a push-out rule following the break and a 3-foul rule, but no need to call anything at any time.

Why didn't I do this a long time ago? Absolutely no incidents occurred all night and it was a breeze from a TD's perspective. We still incorporate rack your own balls and a 9-ball made on the break is spotted. Also, only a one race final regardless of whether the undefeated player or the one-loss player wins that set. That can potentially speed up as to when the tournament ends and when I can get out of here.

Now the only conflicts I'll have to settle are two players that have a disagreement on the current game score of the match, and disagreements over whether the lowest ball was contacted first. It's amazing to me how 2 players in a tournament match can fail to agree on the game score.

We did have one minor incident last night - in a hill/hill match, a player made the winning 9-ball shot, and apparently the cue ball came back and hit the tip of his cue at some point after the shot when the cue ball was still moving. Another player witnessing the match told him that was a foul, but the opponent did not call it on him. I told the person who witnessed the foul that as an observer, he is not allowed to call the foul in a match he is not in and that it is up to the opponent to call the foul. The opponent said it was his own fault for not paying attention and calling it, so he let the other player who committed the foul off the hook. I feel I made the correct decision by staying out of it and leaving it up to the 2 players in the match.

In hindsight, I'm thinking I should have spoken privately to the player who committed the foul and questioned him as to whether he has any integrity to do the right thing and call the foul on himself when he knows good and well it was a foul? This is an older guy, a gambler, a pretty good player, has been around the block, and has developed a reputation in here that he'll get away with anything he can to win, particularly against players he figures won't question him and may not call a foul on him. If I remember, I may have that conversation with him next time he comes in. Is that appropriate at this point, or is it too late now to bring it up?
 
Last edited:
I'd say it is too late to bring it up now, but to keep it fresh in your head and say something if it happens again.

I do agree that spectators should not be able to call a foul. It is too easy to see something wrong, misunderstand where they are in the match, etc. and start something over a non-issue. If a spectator wants to point out to the opponent that there was a foul, and the opponent saw it, but maybe didn't realize what was happening, then I think that is completely fine. We sometimes have this happen where someone shooting sees that a ball never hit the rail, but they have brain freeze and don't realize that they don't have ball in hand. You're not calling the foul, just basically reminding the person that there was one.
 
For those of you that have followed my previous posts, where I asked for opinions regarding conflicts in our weekly 9-ball handicapped tournament, I made the decision last week, after receiving numerous helpful posts, to return back to old fashioned Texas Express 9-ball rules - anything goes. Yes, we have a push-out rule following the break and a 3-foul rule, but no need to call anything at any time.

Why didn't I do this a long time ago? Absolutely no incidents occurred all night and it was a breeze from a TD's perspective. We still incorporate rack your own balls and a 9-ball made on the break is spotted. Also, only a one race final regardless of whether the undefeated player or the one-loss player wins that set. That can potentially speed up as to when the tournament ends and when I can get out of here.

Now the only conflicts I'll have to settle are two players that have a disagreement on the current game score of the match, and disagreements over whether the lowest ball was contacted first. It's amazing to me how 2 players in a tournament match can fail to agree on the game score.

We did have one minor incident last night - in a hill/hill match, a player made the winning 9-ball shot, and apparently the cue ball came back and hit the tip of his cue at some point after the shot when the cue ball was still moving. Another player witnessing the match told him that was a foul, but the opponent did not call it on him. I told the person who witnessed the foul that as an observer, he is not allowed to call the foul in a match he is not in and that it is up to the opponent to call the foul. The opponent said it was his own fault for not paying attention and calling it, so he let the other player who committed the foul off the hook. I feel I made the correct decision by staying out of it and leaving it up to the 2 players in the match.

In hindsight, I'm thinking I should have spoken privately to the player who committed the foul and questioned him as to whether he has any integrity to do the right thing and call the foul on himself when he knows good and well it was a foul? This is an older guy, a gambler, a pretty good player, has been around the block, and has developed a reputation in here that he'll get away with anything he can to win, particularly against players he figures won't question him and may not call a foul on him. If I remember, I may have that conversation with him next time he comes in. Is that appropriate at this point, or is it too late now to bring it up?


Chris - I try to stay out of these things for the most part but, I'll pipe up in this case.

First, you're dead right about the peanut gallery calling a foul. Nope, nope andddddd nope. Not their business, no way, no how, even if they were side betting. Nope.

Secondly, yeah, the "aggrieved" player should've been paying closer attention and, frankly? At hill -hill and the cheese shot? I find it nearly impossible to believe he WASN'T paying attention. Talk about asleep at the wheel! Wow...

Third and most importantly, to me, as far as "too much time going by" for you to say something to the winner? Oh, HELL no. It's YOUR room. You da boss. That, to me, anyway, is 100% within your purview, ESPECIALLY with his ( as you stated ) history of getting away with whatever he thinks he can while no one is looking. That's the stuff that causes trouble in pool rooms, from minor arguments to much, much worse. I would say you have a duty to your business to say something to him. And if it was me? I would state it as more a warning than a simple "Oh by the way..." But, from what I can tell, you're much more a diplomat than I could ever be! But I definitely would have a "talk" with him. :grin:
 
You are creating a lot of drama for something one non-participant claims to have seen.
I didn't create drama - I chose to stay out of it and let the two players that were involved in the match settle it, which they did. I just wanted to post it on here to get some feedback from you guys regarding the situation.
 
Last edited:
If you're not in the match....STAY OUT OF THE GAME.

Will they take it a step further and say loud enough for the player to hear "He should just roll him up behind the 5 now." advising him to play safe?

Does your opponent have to play you and the players in the front row too?
 
I didn't create drama - I chose to stay out of it and let the two players that were involved in the match settle it, which they did. I just wanted to post it on here to get some feedback from you guys regarding the situation.

My bad.

My feedback, since there is no mention of the winning player admitting to the foul, would be to not make any statement questioning another's integrity based on hearsay.
 
My bad.

My feedback, since there is no mention of the winning player admitting to the foul, would be to not make any statement questioning another's integrity based on hearsay.

Quote from OP:

"call the foul on himself when he knows good and well it was a foul?"


So, apparently, Chris seems to feel the winner ( for whatever reason and there must be one, you would think ) had to have known he fouled. Thus, he feels perhaps he should "have a word" with the guy.


That was my take on it anyhow. And if there's evidence the guy knew he fouled, I do think the room owner should say something to him.
 
Last edited:
Quote from OP:

"call the foul on himself when he knows good and well it was a foul?"


So, apparently, Chris seems to feel the winner ( for whatever reason and there must be one, you would think ) had to have known he fouled. Thus, he feels perhaps he should "have a word" with the guy.


That was my take on it anyhow. And if there's evidence the guy knew he fouled, I do think the room owner should say something to him.
Yeah, he knew he fouled, but I didn't witness it, so I stayed out of it and didn't go by what another player standing 5 feet away when it happened said to him and to me. Bottom line is his opponent is not the one who accused him of fouling, so I felt it was best to stay out of it, even if I had witnessed it, which I didn't. This is not the first time I've seen this player take advantage of this same opponent, and I've explained to that opponent that he needs to speak up for himself and shouldn't let this guy get away with it, as sadly, not everyone is honest.

You've got to understand this character, pushing 70, will try to get away with whatever he can. I've walked in on him smoking in the men's room just because he was too lazy to go outside to light up. He asked if it was OK if he relieves himself off the porch just because he's too lazy to go to the restroom. This guy is a piece of work, but he's a lifelong pool player / road player and he drives from over an hour away to come to our tournament. He loves our room and our weekly tournament, and he respects me and will listen to me. There's a chance if I discuss this with him confidentially, one-on-one, he'll at least make me think he won't do it again. And I will warn him that I'll be keeping an eye on him, particularly when he plays against players he knows he can take advantage of.
 
Last edited:
Yeah, he knew he fouled, but I didn't witness it, so I stayed out of it and didn't go by what another player standing 5 feet away when it happened said to him and to me. Bottom line is his opponent is not the one who accused him of fouling, so I felt it was best to stay out of it, even if I had witnessed it, which I didn't. This is not the first time I've seen this player take advantage of this same opponent, and I've explained to that opponent that he needs to speak up for himself and shouldn't let this guy get away with it, as sadly, not everyone is honest.

You've got to understand this character, pushing 70, will try to get away with whatever he can. I've walked in on him smoking in the men's room just because he was too lazy to go outside to light up. I've caught him relieving himself off of the front porch just because he's too lazy to go to the restroom. This guy is a piece of work, but he's a lifelong pool player / road player and he drives from over an hour away to come to our tournament. He loves our room and our weekly tournament, and he respects me and will listen to me. There's a chance if I discuss this with him confidentially, one-on-one, he'll at least make me think he won't do it again. And I will warn him that I'll be keeping an eye on him, particularly when he plays against players he knows he can take advantage of.


Chris - I absolutely think you did the right thing by not saying anything at the time and I would say that even if you actually saw it happen, instead of getting it 2nd hand. Saying something to him in front of everyone ( i.e. just after it happened ) would be tantamount to your boss calling you out in front of your fellow employees. And I think everyone knows how the "called-out" would feel abut that. But the more I hear from you about this character, the more I think you really should not only say something to him in private, but, once in private and before you say a word, you should introduce the side of his head to a Louisville Slugger a good 4 or 5 times first, just to make sure you're both on the same page! :grin:
 
Damn, if a guy pisses on the outside of my building, he ain't never gettin back in
We are out in the country it's dark outside, the porch is located in the back, and by that time of night there were no female customers or employees here - so not nearly as egregious as you may have pictured in your mind, but just the principle that he thought he could do it. He didn't actually do it, he just asked me if it was OK to do it, and naturally I responded very firmly - NO. After reading my post you're responding to, I edited it to correct my error - I didn't catch him in the act of doing - he did at least have the courtesy to ask if it was OK.
 
Last edited:
We are out in the country it's dark outside, the porch is located in the back, and by that time of night there were no female customers or employees here - so not nearly as egregious as you may have pictured in your mind, but just the principle that he thought he could do it. He didn't actually do it, he just asked me if it was OK to do it, and naturally I responded very firmly - NO. After reading my post you're responding to, I edited it to correct my error - I didn't catch him in the act of doing - he did at least have the courtesy to ask if it was OK.

I'm not so sure it was courtesy as much as fear of being shot if he got caught!

:rotflmao1: :rotflmao1: :rotflmao1:
 
You have made quite a few threads about incidents that occur in your room.

I must say ....you have quite a cast of characters in your neck of the woods.
 
You have made quite a few threads about incidents that occur in your room.

I must say ....you have quite a cast of characters in your neck of the woods.
I don't think we have any a stranger cast of characters than most pool halls manage to attract. If you don't have them, it's probably not a pool hall most of us would enjoy hanging out in! Honestly though, it's rather dead in here most days/nights these days, and it's the food operation that has kept us going. But once a week, on Monday nights, this place comes alive with our tournament players!
 
Last edited:
I don't think we have any a stranger cast of characters than most pool halls manage to attract. If you don't have them, it's probably not a pool hall most of us would enjoy hanging out in! Honestly though, it's rather dead in here most days/nights these days, and it's the food operation that has kept us going. But once a week, on Monday nights, this place comes alive with our tournament players!


I have played at hi pockets in Memphis as many as 4 nights a week ..league..in house money leagues ...apa..napa..tournaments....you name it
. Sure ther has been a lil drama a few times over those years but very little .

I have seen waiting lists on getting a table sometimes. Hey also hold pro tournaments...ooen tournaments....even challenge matches between pros . Most have been streamed by big truck..

Its a pool hall..not a bar with pool tables and have never read anything negative about the room ...or its owner from posters on here who have visited.

Not saying the place or the regulars here are perfect but i think its a place most people would enjoy hanging out or playing in.
 
Not going to bother editing my post due to spelling errors.. I believe you can understand it. I gotta get a phone with a bigger keypad. :angry:
 
We just had this happen last Monday. 2 really good guys were playing each other. One guy called the 8-ball in the corner clean as it was really close to the opponents ball.

He made the ball and a few people clapped. The guy who runs the bracket pipes up and says "no, he hit the 14 ball but it didn't move but it went off the 14 ball"

I was watching the game and didn't see it go off the 14 but was keeping my mouth shut nonetheless.

After 10 minutes of arguing back and fourth, someone asked me if I saw it. I said that it didn't matter if I saw it because no one asked me to pay attention to that shot.

We have a rule that if it is going to be a close shot for any reason...ask a 3rd person to watch the shot. If no one asks a 3rd person to watch...the shot goes to the shooter.
 
Back
Top