hang-the-9,
You could ask Mike Webb to use a black Sharpie on the sides of the tip after he burnishes it. That would give it the black color you've become accustomed to.
Roger
Outsville Ki-Tech Single Layered Tips
- Thread starter The Renfro
- Start date
hang-the-9,
You could ask Mike Webb to use a black Sharpie on the sides of the tip after he burnishes it. That would give it the black color you've become accustomed to.
Roger
I always appreciate the feedback... The color thing is something I am working on... I like the tips to burnish into a super dark color as well but the color is part of the final processing and I don't want to penetrate the outside of the tip with the color and hardener to the point that I lose the properties of the elastomers.......
If you have a camera I would love to see the install... if there are any fuzzies sticking up they will change the feel and performance because the Ki-tech fibers won't get beat down easily... A good Ki-tech soft install resembles Toupee Jay without the toupee....
Chris
I remember someone doing the marker thing on the sides of a tip back when I first started playing
I was actually thinking about doing it myself, but I don't really care THAT much about, before the year or so I was using a Kamui I was using Moori tips and those were brown.
I can take some pics and either post them or send them to you, I don't remember seeing anything odd about the tip after it was installed. Webb used a metal cutter while the cue was spinning on a lather to shape the tip, it looks to be very smooth, and maintained the same look for the few hours I played with it afterward.
And about how the tip looks like, well, you could also have said it would look like me :wink:
I can take some pics and either post them or send them to you, I don't remember seeing anything odd about the tip after it was installed. Webb used a metal cutter while the cue was spinning on a lather to shape the tip, it looks to be very smooth, and maintained the same look for the few hours I played with it afterward.
And about how the tip looks like, well, you could also have said it would look like me :wink:
From your description he did a fine job =) I guess I could have said it it should look like me as well at least several months out of the year... I am down to literally my last hair style... If I lose anymore there will be no option but to keep it shaved LOL
I had a phone conversation over the weekend where a chisel had been used and it had not been sharpened so the tip ended up looking like a sheep dog per the description I was given... Luckily the tip had not been torn to the point that it would accordian if pulled on but I have seen that happen as well... A bit of sanding fixed it....
A friend of mine put one on in New Jersey using the equipment that the installer had left at Sandcastle... The installer had taken what he could home so only the lathe and an ancient chisel was left behind... After the attempted install the tip was horrid and I had to run to Auzone for sandpaper and sand the fibers off because they refused to cut and since they are treated you would have spent a month beating them down...
Hope you have a Merry Christmas :thumbup:
Chris
For general information purposes in case anyone has the same question...
The Renfro said:
Installation info
Basically the fibers are treated with chemicals that make them a PITA to cut if your chisel is dull... Blackburn and several other installers will only use a new razorblade to install them... Leave them tall as the tip won't compress unless they cut them to half size and get into the core instead of the outer shell...
If you are using the SS you will likely want to start with the soft.... When they shape the tip have them finish the shaping with sandpaper to sand off any fuzzy fibers that are sticking out... If you like a dark burnish you will have to have them use a sharpie on the sides.. I am working on adding a burnishing compound to the final treatment but It may be a few months until they are as pretty as a Kamui SS on install. They need to be burnished after shaping.. not before or the shoulder my have some fibers as well....
If you have a medium installed the installer is going to freak out... He will tell you it may be the hardest tip he has ever cut... That's just the outer shell on the Ki-Techs... The shell is a little more 1mm thick or 2mm of the 14mm diameter... That means anything over 12 mm is going to have the heat treated shell intact and cut hard.. It won't play hard at 13 or under... The z2 and Classic pro are 11.75 and you are just getting to the core when installing on those shafts.....
The hard... Doesn't have a shell.. It's hard enough at the core that it doesn't go thru the shell hardening step that the medium and soft do in it's final processing.. It's the easiest for an installer to deal with but the elastomers still dull the tools at a very fast rate so a razorblade or sharpening the chisel will be required........
All three grades are different tips.. They are not just the same tip pressed differently but I can do exactly that and I will be doing it in the future as boutique tips... I can take the soft and up the PSI to make a medium or hard and that design will have more COR than the standard medium and hard...
The idea was to make the grades so that as you went harder in grade you traded spin for speed... If you were short on shape with the soft you could go up one notch and get more travel and a little less spin... This should let you figure out which grade you prefer in short order just by playing a few racks and seeing how the cueball reacted vs what you had in your head when you hit it....
Chris
private PM said:
Basically the fibers are treated with chemicals that make them a PITA to cut if your chisel is dull... Blackburn and several other installers will only use a new razorblade to install them... Leave them tall as the tip won't compress unless they cut them to half size and get into the core instead of the outer shell...
If you are using the SS you will likely want to start with the soft.... When they shape the tip have them finish the shaping with sandpaper to sand off any fuzzy fibers that are sticking out... If you like a dark burnish you will have to have them use a sharpie on the sides.. I am working on adding a burnishing compound to the final treatment but It may be a few months until they are as pretty as a Kamui SS on install. They need to be burnished after shaping.. not before or the shoulder my have some fibers as well....
If you have a medium installed the installer is going to freak out... He will tell you it may be the hardest tip he has ever cut... That's just the outer shell on the Ki-Techs... The shell is a little more 1mm thick or 2mm of the 14mm diameter... That means anything over 12 mm is going to have the heat treated shell intact and cut hard.. It won't play hard at 13 or under... The z2 and Classic pro are 11.75 and you are just getting to the core when installing on those shafts.....
The hard... Doesn't have a shell.. It's hard enough at the core that it doesn't go thru the shell hardening step that the medium and soft do in it's final processing.. It's the easiest for an installer to deal with but the elastomers still dull the tools at a very fast rate so a razorblade or sharpening the chisel will be required........
All three grades are different tips.. They are not just the same tip pressed differently but I can do exactly that and I will be doing it in the future as boutique tips... I can take the soft and up the PSI to make a medium or hard and that design will have more COR than the standard medium and hard...
The idea was to make the grades so that as you went harder in grade you traded spin for speed... If you were short on shape with the soft you could go up one notch and get more travel and a little less spin... This should let you figure out which grade you prefer in short order just by playing a few racks and seeing how the cueball reacted vs what you had in your head when you hit it....
Chris
So as stated already if you are getting a medium PLEASE make sure you take off the top layer of the mediums...
My installer came to me with the most worried look on his face and just said "Good luck" when handing my shaft back to me.
I went to the hall down the street and felt like I was playing with a phenolic tip. I hated it.
PM'd Chris and got it all square and settled. I took it significantly down and it played great.
I had the medium on for a few weeks and though I kept wanting to go back to the hard, there was definitely something special about the medium.
I didn't have to mess around with it at all, I broke and played with the cue.
I did scuff it a few times but that is normal with these. You won't have to shape them but you should scuff em every once in a while.
Overall the medium to me was VERY VERY comparable to a milk dud from pooldawg8 on here. I really enjoy both of them very very much.
BUT HOWEVER, I firmly believe if you have one of the hards and leave it pretty high you won't regret it. I can't get enough of this tip. I REALLY REALLY love these things. I'm going to order a couple handfuls to have on hand just in case something were to ever happen (god forbid) because I really never want to have to use another tip on a playing cue again.
These things are not hype or some gimmick.
If you order the sampler pack and don't like them at all feel free to send the medium or hard to me any time!!!
My installer came to me with the most worried look on his face and just said "Good luck" when handing my shaft back to me.
I went to the hall down the street and felt like I was playing with a phenolic tip. I hated it.
PM'd Chris and got it all square and settled. I took it significantly down and it played great.
I had the medium on for a few weeks and though I kept wanting to go back to the hard, there was definitely something special about the medium.
I didn't have to mess around with it at all, I broke and played with the cue.
I did scuff it a few times but that is normal with these. You won't have to shape them but you should scuff em every once in a while.
Overall the medium to me was VERY VERY comparable to a milk dud from pooldawg8 on here. I really enjoy both of them very very much.
BUT HOWEVER, I firmly believe if you have one of the hards and leave it pretty high you won't regret it. I can't get enough of this tip. I REALLY REALLY love these things. I'm going to order a couple handfuls to have on hand just in case something were to ever happen (god forbid) because I really never want to have to use another tip on a playing cue again.
These things are not hype or some gimmick.
If you order the sampler pack and don't like them at all feel free to send the medium or hard to me any time!!!
My several days of use update:
The soft tip I got looks like new after hours of play. Feels the same as it did the first day. No mushrooming or even needing scuff the thing. I even broke with it a few times just to see how it held up. Grips the cueball like a rubber eraser.
I wanted to take some pictures of the installation but my cell camera can't focus well on a close up, and my regular camera looks to have a broken lens that also won't focus properly :frown:
These things are like magic.
The soft tip I got looks like new after hours of play. Feels the same as it did the first day. No mushrooming or even needing scuff the thing. I even broke with it a few times just to see how it held up. Grips the cueball like a rubber eraser.
I wanted to take some pictures of the installation but my cell camera can't focus well on a close up, and my regular camera looks to have a broken lens that also won't focus properly :frown:
These things are like magic.
hahah glad you are liking them.. Hope that new tip smell lasts awhile... Is your son liking the medium or did he move on???
Appreciate the order =) The Ki-Techs and Accu-Racks are still pretty much here and on the Outsville website for now... I am selling more orders to installers every month so hopefully it is a matter of time before you can find them locally....
No pool on TV makes it kind of rough to get new products out in front of the players and I resigned myself to the fact that this was likely going to be a 3 year process... We are at the end of year one and I would like to thank everyone on AZ who has bought product and given feedback... One of the main reasons for going slow was to be able to listen and adjust what we are doing.... Here's to hoping to pickup steam in 2014....
Chris
I figure if I like them as much as people posting here do, I have a friend that will be flying to DCC to play. He can pick me up a couple of spares. If he likes the accu-rack might pick up a few for his pool room. Just something with no exposure on this part of the west coast.
I got the medium and soft put on. After years of buying every kind of tip and settling in with kamui and moori.... I have finally found a "perfect" tip
The mediums are the best tips I've played with . Nothing not to like
The softs are what a soft should be in my opinion but the mediums are perfect .
Congrats on an amazing product. I guess we will be doing business for a lifetime
Appreciate the feedback Petey =) I'd like to think I'll be making tips for a long time... Actually had a major industry player ask me what I was going to do if I exceeded my production ability... I'll add on to the house and hire people... I have full intentions of keeping everything made in house or by local job shops if it's outside of our current equipment tasks....
I am working on a few projects that will bring other offerings to our line but the Original Ki-Techs are complete and the only changes I can see to them is if I can alter the finishing process and chemicals to allow the tips to burnish to a shine...
It's purely aesthetics tho and so far changes to the finishing process has altered the COR and Durometer readings so it may be awhile... I take several batches out of standard production each month to alter so it's definitely gonna be a long process....
If you make it out for Derby make sure and stop off and yell at me....
Chris
How to actually burnish your tips? I purely sand them with a 1500 then 200grit. I'm not sure whether I should apply Porper's Tip Touch to it.
As tough as the fibers are on the soft and medium the sanding is usually required unless your cutting tool was super sharp... The porpers tip touch is a decent product... I have also seen people use padding lacquer... I have a burnishing compound that I am working on and have given a few bottles out but so far it doesn't do a superior job to the porpers IMHO.... I have not given up on that route yet and I have an idea on a few changes I can make to my current formula but I haven't had the time to fool around with it anymore.....
Chris
Quick update... Orders after tomorrow will not ship until we return from The Derby City Classic.... If you are coming to Derby Tips and Rack templates will be on sale at the Accu-Stats booth....
Chris
Chris