Overcoaching in pool
- Thread starter justnum
- Start date
Unless someone wants help and asks they should be left alone. Over coaching is just as bad.
The best thing a person can do to visualize how to fix something is find someone to watch that
doesn't have the problem. When they are engaged enough to want to fix something that is over
half of the battle. People need to ask for help.
First lesson, don't take coaching from an APA 3 who has been playing for 15 years
. YouTube has a lot of good instructors; Ralph Eckert on Billiards Network, FxBilliards, Tor Lowry, DrDaveBilliards, Darren Appleton, Niels Feijen, Shaivari and others.
jjspelman
Member
There are so may parallels with golf and pool. Information overload is yet another similarity. I was told years ago when I was sick with the "golf bug", not to watch too much gold instruction on YouTube and read too many books and articles.
I think the same holds true in pool. There is just a ton of info out there. I have had to try and contain myself and stick with a few of the available sources so I don't fall into that same problem. This way I will start with a few solid sources for my foundations and then pick and choose as I (hopefully) progress.
Next up: 3-cushion billiards
I think the same holds true in pool. There is just a ton of info out there. I have had to try and contain myself and stick with a few of the available sources so I don't fall into that same problem. This way I will start with a few solid sources for my foundations and then pick and choose as I (hopefully) progress.
Next up: 3-cushion billiards
An extremely good trap shooting instructor tells you to listen to what he says and use what you like and discard what you don't like. You have to know what works for you. It does not hurt to practice different techniques and decide what works for you. For example, in trapshooting, some instructors teach that you have to look through the beads on the rib of the shotgun while others teach that you should look below the barrel ...two fundamentally different techniques and you have to figure out which works for you. In pool there are many techniques for kicking ... number systems, parallel shifts, etc. you have to figure out what works for you.There are so may parallels with golf and pool. Information overload is yet another similarity. I was told years ago when I was sick with the "golf bug", not to watch too much gold instruction on YouTube and read too many books and articles.
I think the same holds true in pool. There is just a ton of info out there. I have had to try and contain myself and stick with a few of the available sources so I don't fall into that same problem. This way I will start with a few solid sources for my foundations and then pick and choose as I (hopefully) progress.
Next up: 3-cushion billiards
Personally, I think some of the burden for avoidance of overcoaching lies in the hands of the student. A student, assisted or unassisted. will benefit if they take the trouble to map out their own developmental agenda in general terms. This will help them to stay on a constructive and feasible path for their learning and to ensure that their plate is never too full. A student who is in a position to say to a coach who overdoes it that "I'm not working on that at present and would like that subject deferred until a later date" will be more likely to avoid overcoaching.
And, of course, too many cooks spoil the broth is a living, breathing reality. There's nothing wrong with bringing on subject matter experts to help you with specific parts of your game (such as getting a banks lesson from Brumback, a pattern play lesson from Souquet, or a safety play lesson from Pagulayan) but one should have a primary coach to steer their overall developmental path.
And, of course, too many cooks spoil the broth is a living, breathing reality. There's nothing wrong with bringing on subject matter experts to help you with specific parts of your game (such as getting a banks lesson from Brumback, a pattern play lesson from Souquet, or a safety play lesson from Pagulayan) but one should have a primary coach to steer their overall developmental path.
One bad general is better than two good generals.
I started playing pool in the Information Age and I did get a bit overwhelmed by learning and attempting to implement too many things at once. Eventually though I started to see what was used the most and what was needed for me ‘right now’.
I still have a binder full of info and some dvds from the good doctor that are in my future. I wish I could fit a table in my current house
I started playing pool in the Information Age and I did get a bit overwhelmed by learning and attempting to implement too many things at once. Eventually though I started to see what was used the most and what was needed for me ‘right now’.
I still have a binder full of info and some dvds from the good doctor that are in my future. I wish I could fit a table in my current house
Spot on Stu. I had a couple I was coaching years ago that thought the way to go was to ask everyone they could how to do everything there was to do and then when we got together on Saturdays they were teaching me and everyone else they were asking weren't teachers so that went splendidly well.
well at least you can easily shut up your coach when you're fed up with him, 'cause they are just a youtube video.
This is a good topic.
Back when I shot league I used to see it so often. Higher level players telling the lower level players to do something the way the higher level player would do it rather then knowing the current capability of the lower player. You need to really know abilities of the person you are instructing and give them the highest percentage option with the most favorable outcome.
As far as doing the drill wrong... as long as the drill is instructed in a specific manner, I don't really see that being an issue. Most drills arent just a ball layout, but the ideal position route with it.
Back when I shot league I used to see it so often. Higher level players telling the lower level players to do something the way the higher level player would do it rather then knowing the current capability of the lower player. You need to really know abilities of the person you are instructing and give them the highest percentage option with the most favorable outcome.
As far as doing the drill wrong... as long as the drill is instructed in a specific manner, I don't really see that being an issue. Most drills arent just a ball layout, but the ideal position route with it.
Although Ralf is a very fine pattern player in 14.1, I was referring to his nine ball patterns, which I believe to be the best of any player of the last twenty five years.
Stu -- With your well-earned credentials via years of up-close tourney spectating (plus careful video scrutinizing); deep knowledge of all the pool disciplines; and acute observational skills -- no one has sounder, continually dependable estimates of these kinds important victory-governing factors.
IMO there's a self-evident, quantifiable relationship between the quality/efficiency of a player's patterns in any pool discipline and the rarity of instances where he/she got the CB into trouble in a given match.
No one in the recorded (170-year?) history of our beloved sport got himself into trouble less often than Mosconi. Any one else on a career-long list would be a far distant second to Willie in that regard, which essentially measures and indisputably announces purity of performance and sustained excellence (in 14.1 anyway).
Arnaldo
Thanks for the kind words, Arnaldo.
As I'm not old enough to have watched Willie in his prime, I'll take your word for it. The popular view is that Mosconi played the best position of anyone in the straight pool era and that Buddy Hall, whom I watched often, played the best position of anyone in the nine ball era. Hence, to clarify matters, I think Souquet is the best pattern player of the nine ball era since Buddy Hall.
Pin
Registered
This reminds me of a teaching style Tim Gallwey (the Inner Game guy) uses - having the player pay attention to particular parts of their actions and letting their body figure out how best to perform them.
I'm skeptical about whether that would work for snooker (and to a lesser extent pool) because for a beginner learning a technically-correct snooker stance, it initially feels uncomfortable and awkward, and you just have to persevere until you get used to it.
I'm reluctant to say Gallwey's approach wouldn't work because (a) I've not seen it tried properly in cuesports, and (b) Gallwey's entire approach is unconventional, and in other sports I know it to work despite that.