I was wondering is it against the law for for anyone in the US to purchase cues from cuemakers overseas that have ivory in them? Wouldnt that be importing of ivory? I know Dick Abbot had some cues taken from him by customs when he came back from Japan once and the cues were made in the US...He was just taking to and from Japan for a cue show and I believe he lost them......Just curious as I see too many Phillipino cuemakers on the rise undercutting American cuemakers because they have access to ivory that is super inexpensive where they come from...Not to mention they have hired help that cost pennies...Just Curious ??????...Cosmo
overseas cuemakers
- Thread starter cosmocues
- Start date
import/export
I had some trouble with customs about 15 years ago. I brought some cues from Tim Scruggs over to London to show to a cuemaker over there. There was some ivory in the cues but English costoms let me through after I filled out some paperwork saying I'd leave with the same cues, and I did. U.S. customs, however, was less accomodating on the way back. I had to provide them with signed sworn statements (with photos of the cues in Tims shop) before they'd let me get them back. It toook about 5 weeks and ther ewas no guarantee that I'd get the cues back (about $10,000.00 worth at the time - ouch!). When you're in customs you're in never never land. They have their own rules and you can't do anything about it if they take your stuff. Ivory is the deal with these problems.
Those Philipino cues are pretty, and some are well made. The only problem is that the environment there is so much more humid than it is here that the cues don't really stabilize very well in relationship to the weather here. I got a cue from there a couple of years ago and it was well made and very nice in every respect. It warped and started to fall apart and buzz about six monthe later. It turned into a basket case. The cheaper ivory isn't the main issue concerning the desirability of those cues.
I had some trouble with customs about 15 years ago. I brought some cues from Tim Scruggs over to London to show to a cuemaker over there. There was some ivory in the cues but English costoms let me through after I filled out some paperwork saying I'd leave with the same cues, and I did. U.S. customs, however, was less accomodating on the way back. I had to provide them with signed sworn statements (with photos of the cues in Tims shop) before they'd let me get them back. It toook about 5 weeks and ther ewas no guarantee that I'd get the cues back (about $10,000.00 worth at the time - ouch!). When you're in customs you're in never never land. They have their own rules and you can't do anything about it if they take your stuff. Ivory is the deal with these problems.
Those Philipino cues are pretty, and some are well made. The only problem is that the environment there is so much more humid than it is here that the cues don't really stabilize very well in relationship to the weather here. I got a cue from there a couple of years ago and it was well made and very nice in every respect. It warped and started to fall apart and buzz about six monthe later. It turned into a basket case. The cheaper ivory isn't the main issue concerning the desirability of those cues.
Purdman
Banned
cosmocues said:
You make some pretty negative statements for someone who is Just Curious!
Do you have some inside info we should know about? What if I sent the Ivory to the Phillipino cuemaker to put in my cue? Would that be OK with you? Are you sure all the Ivory used here in the US is legal?
I personally think we should be more worried about the Chinese and the trade deficit.
Purdman
I guess I struck a nerve huh?.....You should look for a forums about the Chinese and the trade deficit if your so concerned..This forum is about CUEMAKERS...And the cuemaking world....Thanks CosmoPurdman said:You make some pretty negative statements for someone who is Just Curious!
Do you have some inside info we should know about? What if I sent the Ivory to the Phillipino cuemaker to put in my cue? Would that be OK with you? Are you sure all the Ivory used here in the US is legal?
I personally think we should be more worried about the Chinese and the trade deficit.
Purdman
Hi Cosmo,
Yes it is illegal to import the cues with ivory from the Philippines. That does not stop people from doing it. One guy told me he had a cuemakers over there paint over the finished cue with some type of easy to remove black stuff to fool customs. I don't condone such actions. According to a cuemaker from Asia, the Ivory in the Philippines is almost all illegal ivory bought from poachers for $30 or less per pound. Whereas the Americans are using tusks from old Safaris and Estates that obtained the ivory before 1989. I was also told minimum wage there is $5 per day. Doesn't take long to figure out why the cues can be bought as cheap as they can.
Chris
www.cuesmith.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com
Yes it is illegal to import the cues with ivory from the Philippines. That does not stop people from doing it. One guy told me he had a cuemakers over there paint over the finished cue with some type of easy to remove black stuff to fool customs. I don't condone such actions. According to a cuemaker from Asia, the Ivory in the Philippines is almost all illegal ivory bought from poachers for $30 or less per pound. Whereas the Americans are using tusks from old Safaris and Estates that obtained the ivory before 1989. I was also told minimum wage there is $5 per day. Doesn't take long to figure out why the cues can be bought as cheap as they can.
Chris
www.cuesmith.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com
Your right Purdy it was a little bias.....I have to be honest...I also believe 90% of the americans purchasing these cues off ebay and other places do not know they are breaking the law...Im sure they would like to know if they were....CosmoPurdman said:No nerve struck here Cosmos. Just wondering why you phrased your question the way you did. I senced some bias there. Legal isn't always right and right isn't always legal.
Purdman
I would say 99% of all ivory American cuemakers use is legal ivory. Here is why. Most ivory we use comes from large tusks and they would be very hard to smuggle back in luggage. Some small tusks might make it back in luggage, but they bring more as decorations than they would for cuemakers. True smugglers would much rather try to bring in drugs or currency or something that is actually worth their time. Now I am told that in the Philippines that the authorities don't inforce ivory laws, so it is profitable to smuggle it there since you won't get prosecuted if caught. I do agree with your statement that "Legal isn't always right and right isn't always legal." I would advise you not to print that you broke the law right or not.Purdman said:Hey Chris, I purchased the Ivory that I sent a Phillipino cuemaker from you. I don't want any illegal Ivory either. I also wouldn't be so sure all the Ivory purchased here in the US is from old Safaris and Estates.
Purdman
Maybe I am missing something here, please enlighten me if I am. Purdman, I read and enjoy many of your posts, in fact, I agree with much you have to say and give you credit for being cognizant of the US economy being sluggish. You elude to concern over the trade deficit, yet you send Ivory to another country to use in making you a cue(?). Aren't you contributing to the trade deficit by doing so? I am aware that a cue going to other countries is subject to import fees. To England I believe they call it VAT (Value Added Tax). When a cue enters the US from (say) the Phillipines, would we pay an import tax on it? I don't believe so...In which case, that REALLY contributes to the Trade Deficit. If that cue had ivory in it, wouldn't it be illegal to import that cue into the US (regardless of the source of the ivory)? I have to say, from reading your posts I know you like well made cues, and am really surprised that you would entertain the idea of having a cue made overseas.Purdman said:No nerve struck here Cosmos. Just wondering why you phrased your question the way you did. I senced some bias there. Legal isn't always right and right isn't always legal.
Purdman
I am quite familiar with Edwins work, and agree he does make a nice cue. Not necessarily better than some of the US makers though.zeeder said:
I do not have a problem with a trade agreement, but when it works to the detriment of the US economy, I feel it's broken and should be fixed. It is not only my belief, but also fact, the US is represented by the best cuemakers in the business. Obviously there are talented persons in other countries that make cues, but that was not the subject at hand. The subject was concerning the legalities of importing ivory and "Phillipino cuemakers on the rise undercutting American cuemakers". I for one, will continue to buy "Made in the USA". If it ever reaches a point that I cannot afford to, then I will find a different area of interest.
Purdman
Banned
TellsItLikeItIs said:
TellsItLikeItIs, after seing ER's cues and his offor to make 12 for AZ members, I chose to give him a try. I sent $135 worth of legal pre ban Ivory for my cue along with the design. The Ivory was not sent to the Phillipines. If a cue is made well and plays to my liking, I will buy it, no matter where it is made. As far as buying American, when was the last time you saw a union lable or made in America on anything. I can assure you that I have supported American cuemakers to the tune of about $30,000. I also have 1 Canadian cue made by Kevin DeRoo.
The only law I have broken was discharging a firearm in the town limits to kill a Mr. G. Hog who was destroying my property.
Best Regards, Purdman
No problem here.
Maybe those Japanese, Filipinos, Taiwanese and Singaporean cue collectors and players ought to stop buying US made cues.TellsItLikeItIs said:
Walmart ought to stop posting those Made in America signs on things made in Mexico.
Edwin Reyes
For some reason I was thinking that he is a US Citizen who lives in the Phillipines. I thought he lived here for years and now resides in the Phillipines to help take care of his father.
It is late in the day and I am tired
For some reason I was thinking that he is a US Citizen who lives in the Phillipines. I thought he lived here for years and now resides in the Phillipines to help take care of his father.
It is late in the day and I am tired
Yes, Edwin did live in the Riverside/San Bernardino area.gforces1911 said:
titlistsucker
Deceased
i didnt do a thing.
Bgrds
RC <--does not own a Lambros, TAD, Southwest
Bgrds
RC <--does not own a Lambros, TAD, Southwest
Now why would they want to do that Joey? They recognize an opportunity to double, triple, or even quadruple the price on cues when they resell them. Unless they are doing some underhanded deals, they are paying their fair share of import fees and their governments are benefitting by that. By one avenue or another, that money may just go to the aid of the citizens of that country. But all that is not germane to the subject at hand (importing ivory etc).JoeyInCali said:
Nope, no problem here either Purdman. I was only using the Phillipines as an example. Actually, I do look for made in USA labels, but have to agree that they are not as plentiful as they once were. I keep on looking though. I am sure ER will do you a good job. I have seen some of his work close up and it does look good. I am aware that he is one of the advanced makers in that part of the world and from what I understand, he does make an attempt to educate the other makers. Too bad some of them are too greedy to listen.Purdman said:TellsItLikeItIs, after seing ER's cues and his offor to make 12 for AZ members, I chose to give him a try. I sent $135 worth of legal pre ban Ivory for my cue along with the design. The Ivory was not sent to the Phillipines. If a cue is made well and plays to my liking, I will buy it, no matter where it is made. As far as buying American, when was the last time you saw a union lable or made in America on anything. I can assure you that I have supported American cuemakers to the tune of about $30,000. I also have 1 Canadian cue made by Kevin DeRoo.
The only law I have broken was discharging a firearm in the town limits to kill a Mr. G. Hog who was destroying my property.
Best Regards, Purdman
No problem here.
I saw Mr G Hog's name in the obituary column. I trust you gave him a proper funeral
