Pauses in your stroke?

[Snapshot9]

Back to the stroke ...

There's a guy in my league that pauses during the last forward stroke. That's right, during the last forward stroke. This might be what you're talking about. He blazes his warm up stroke, and then on the last stroke, he bring his cue back, then forward, then pauses!!!! Then, he punches the rest of the stroke. I am stunned that he can play with any decency at all.

Fred

A lot of people that have aberrations in their stroke mechanics will pause
as a last second correction for something that does not feel 'right' to them,
where if they were taught the correct stance and stroke mechanics to begin
with, they would not have to do the last second pause, verify, and correct
procedure before the hit stroke. What's ironic, is that I could line up the shot
in less than a second, get down, 1 stroke it, and be more accurate than these
people that go through these freeze frame motions. Part of that is attributed
to how long I have been shooting, and part to my affection and practice of
rolling shots and speed Pool to a lessor degree. Ever notice that these
'machanical' players are never talked about as being an artist or their play as
being an 'art form' like the players that just seem to flow from shot to shot.
An example, well, I would say Allison vs. Earl. Allison is good, but mechanical,
and Earl, he just seems to flow through shots and shape with a beautiful
stroke.

 

[DoomCue]

A lot of people that have aberrations in their stroke mechanics will pause
as a last second correction for something that does not feel 'right' to them,
where if they were taught the correct stance and stroke mechanics to begin
with, they would not have to do the last second pause, verify, and correct
procedure before the hit stroke. What's ironic, is that I could line up the shot
in less than a second, get down, 1 stroke it, and be more accurate than these
people that go through these freeze frame motions.

What are "correct stance and stroke mechanics?" If you've found out what they are, please enlighten the rest of us. Also, if you feel that not pausing results in a more accurate stroke than those who pause, can you explain the aberrations known as snooker players? I'm going to assume that you miss every once in a while. What causes a miss for you? Obviously, pausers miss because they pause. Why do you miss?

Part of that is attributed
to how long I have been shooting, and part to my affection and practice of
rolling shots and speed Pool to a lessor degree. Ever notice that these
'machanical' players are never talked about as being an artist or their play as
being an 'art form' like the players that just seem to flow from shot to shot.
An example, well, I would say Allison vs. Earl. Allison is good, but mechanical,
and Earl, he just seems to flow through shots and shape with a beautiful
stroke.

Pausers can't have beautiful strokes? Pretty strokes are better than ugly strokes? Ever seen KM play (sorry Keith, but I don't think anyone would call your game "pretty" ). Art is fairly subjective, and what does it matter, anyway? Personally, I find so-called "mechanical" strokes like those of most snooker players, Neils Feijen, Jim Rempe, Tiffany Nelson, etc. to show plenty of artistry. In fact, I could watch Niels's and Tiffany's strokes all day long - I think they're technically perfect. To me, that's a beautiful thing.

Obviously, you think pausing is bad, I'm just curious as to why you feel that way.

-djb

 

[mnorwood]

Everyone has their own style...

If your game is better with no pauses stay with it. I am in the pausers camp because it works for me.

Every player I have watched has a their own way of doing it.

Other than Kieth Macready I think Stan Davis has the most unorthodox style I have ever seen or am I thinking of someone else?

 

[Snapshot9]

It is wrong

What are "correct stance and stroke mechanics?" If you've found out what they are, please enlighten the rest of us. Also, if you feel that not pausing results in a more accurate stroke than those who pause, can you explain the aberrations known as snooker players? I'm going to assume that you miss every once in a while. What causes a miss for you? Obviously, pausers miss because they pause. Why do you miss?

Pausers can't have beautiful strokes? Pretty strokes are better than ugly strokes? Ever seen KM play (sorry Keith, but I don't think anyone would call your game "pretty" ). Art is fairly subjective, and what does it matter, anyway? Personally, I find so-called "mechanical" strokes like those of most snooker players, Neils Feijen, Jim Rempe, Tiffany Nelson, etc. to show plenty of artistry. In fact, I could watch Niels's and Tiffany's strokes all day long - I think they're technically perfect. To me, that's a beautiful thing.

Obviously, you think pausing is bad, I'm just curious as to why you feel that way.
-djb

I miss because I lined up on the ball wrong to begin with and didn't hit
the correct contact point.

in the sense that it provides more opportunity for something to go wrong.
You might not like this analogy, but say you were making a cut on a
bandsaw through a piece of wood. Who would you consider the most
skilled? The one that made one fluent pass cutting the wood straight,
or the one that stopped a few times along the cut, paused, then continued.
Which piece of wood would have the truest cut, and which one would have
to be sanded down flat because of little groves? When you commit to a shot,
that should be at the beginning, alignment, warm-up strokes, and shoot, IMO. Pausing or last second alignment is not good, IMHO, and increasing the chances of failure, not success. That's why they tell you to get up off a shot, and only get back down when you are ready to shoot it. Pauses represent hesitation which represents indecision which means they are not
committed to their shot.... That's why. That may not hold true for all cases, but it will for the majority.

Besides, the worst pausing players are like trying to listen to someone
talk that stutters. Notice that Mel Tillis doesn't have a problem singing,
just talking.

 

[rackmsuckr]

Hi Linda. We find that most good players do just that....randyg

I find that people that have that
long a pause before the hit stroke do not have a 'natural feel'
for speed of the cue ball, and that they are 'logically' trying to
determine speed, kind of like a natural shooter in basketball in
comparison to a educated, or logical, one.

Huh? So is it the good players or the ones who have no natural feel? I think Hsin is a pretty natural player. She pauses with her stick in front right on the cueball, whereas Barry Emerson takes an exaggerated pause on his backswing, just before he swings through.

 

[DoomCue]

I miss because I lined up on the ball wrong to begin with and didn't hit
the correct contact point.
in the sense that it provides more opportunity for something to go wrong.
You might not like this analogy, but say you were making a cut on a
bandsaw through a piece of wood. Who would you consider the most
skilled? The one that made one fluent pass cutting the wood straight,
or the one that stopped a few times along the cut, paused, then continued.
Which piece of wood would have the truest cut, and which one would have
to be sanded down flat because of little groves?

You're right, I hate that analogy. I used to run my father's cabinet shop, so I completely understand what you're talking about, and the real answer is that the wood doesn't care whether you cut it in one pass or 75 - as long as you get it right. The same applies to the cue ball - it doesn't care if you pause or not, as long as you hit it right.

When you commit to a shot,
that should be at the beginning, alignment, warm-up strokes, and shoot, IMO.

I think you're missing something here. What is the point of a warm-up stroke (I prefer the term "addressing the CB")? Most people who haven't taken the time to break down their pre-shot and shot routines don't know the answer to this simple question. Are your eyes busy or not? Do your eyes flip back and forth between CB and OB? What do you look at last? Are your eyes still on the CB when your forward swing starts? If alignment is done before address, do you really need to do warm up strokes? If so, why? If not, why not?

Pausing or last second alignment is not good, IMHO, and increasing the chances of failure, not success. That's why they tell you to get up off a shot, and only get back down when you are ready to shoot it. Pauses represent hesitation which represents indecision which means they are not
committed to their shot.... That's why. That may not hold true for all cases, but it will for the majority.

Do you honestly think that when Allison Fisher pauses, she doesn't know what to do? She must never know what to do - she pauses on every single shot. Every shot, like clockwork. She's not the only one. The majority of pros (snooker or pool) I've seen have a pause somewhere in their stroke. Pauses don't represent hesitation or indecision, they're focus points. Pause upon address at the CB - focus on the contact point between cue tip and CB, focus on the OB or aiming line, or both. Pause at the end of the backswing - focus on the OB or aiming line. Pauses in the stroke are there to guarantee consistency from shot to shot and to trigger concentration points. Not only should a stroke be physically consistent, it should be mentally consistent. Pausing can help both aspects.

Personally, if I had to trust my life to a sharpshooter (not that I'd ever want to be in such a situation, this is just a "fer instance"), I'd want the one who brings the gun up, PAUSES to concentrate and aim, then pulls the trigger, not the one who just swings the barrel up and pulls the trigger. How about you?

Besides, the worst pausing players are like trying to listen to someone
talk that stutters. Notice that Mel Tillis doesn't have a problem singing,
just talking.

Huh?

It sounds like maybe you don't like seeing a pause simply because you just don't like the way it looks. If that's the case, all righty then - to each his own. However, don't dismiss the technique because of perceived aesthetics. Pausing does have a purpose, and for those who do pause, it is a real asset to their games.

-djb

 

[Rod]

I've always had a pause up front and in back. The front is very noticable while the back is pretty short although it depends on the stroke being used. On break shots I have a very noticable pause in the rear as well. I think that pause is important (for me at least) because your going to hit that shot with more effort than any other shot in the game. The purpose (for me) is to be well balanced, aimed perfect, and deliver a smooth agressive stroke with a stable body and no head movement.

When I get to fast it shows its ugly head by miss-hit poorly struck breaks, not to mention the regular game. I've always felt accuracy more than outweighs speed. Kill em if you want, if you can control it fine. However I suspect most here and know most players in general accuracy goes to hell when you exceed your ability.

Rod

 

[Ronoh]

Everyone recognizes the pause in the backstroke of many players who have a snooker background.

I was wandering if anyone pauses with the cue almost touching the cueball just before your final backstroke?

I have been experimenting with this pause to ensure that my aim is accurate before I go into my final backstroke.

I am not saying this is effective. I am looking for opinions.

My opinion:

The pause at the cue ball, on the pre stroke, is a confirmation of correct "english" to have optimal position for the next shot. It's like a double check.

I agree with Snapshot9, LastTwo, Cornerman, and DoomCue, on their opinions.

A lot of what I've read of this post, I'm only seeing the responses of "Just making the shot" and not "Making the shot and setting for the next one". A lot of "Eyes wide shut" syndrome.

If a "pause" is working for YOU, then so be it. I'm of the mind set that a "pause" is a double check, and a waste of time (in tournament). Pause in your stroke is only for practice.

But, I've stated in the past on this board, "Practice as hard as you play". If your "Practice" constitutes a pause in your stroke, by all means, put it in play (and most do).

My rythem is, first stroke (smooth stroke), second stroke (concentrate), third stoke (follow through), fourth stroke... ball in hole, position on next ball. No pause.

[words in parentheses are what I say in my mind, when I practice]

Billiards is a one person sport, and everyone is different. Think about it.

Edit: got distracted while writing this, "No pause" added in.

 

[titlistsucker]

From a snooker point of view
i learn from Frank Callan, Hendry n Fisher's coach , that the pause just after the pull back, and b4 executing the shot, allows the eyes one last look on CB b4 to flipping to the object ball.
Most Snooker players find it important to corporate this in their stroke. It helps mentally as it allows ur mind in that split second to gather its thoughts..

Bgrds
Raist

 

[Gerry]

From a snooker point of view
i learn from Frank Callan, Hendry n Fisher's coach , that the pause just after the pull back, and b4 executing the shot, allows the eyes one last look on CB b4 to flipping to the object ball.
Most Snooker players find it important to corporate this in their stroke. It helps mentally as it allows ur mind in that split second to gather its thoughts..

Bgrds
Raist

It's good to hear that's how they teach the pause. That is just how I use it. IMO,

The preshot routine: However you do it, is to get you comfortable with the upcoming shot, get all the info needed for position, and get a feel for it.

The Pause is the END of the preshot and the starting point for the execution of the actual shot.

Whenever I mix these 2 parts with out a pause, things go wrong! Like that hint of doubt while pulling the trigger......the preshot was not complete!....Gerry

 

[SmoothStroke]

controlled force

Everyone recognizes the pause in the backstroke of many players who have a snooker background.

I was wandering if anyone pauses with the cue almost touching the cueball just before your final backstroke?

I have been experimenting with this pause to ensure that my aim is accurate before I go into my final backstroke.

I am not saying this is effective. I am looking for opinions.

Hesitation may be the best way to control the final delivery stroke.
( Inertia ) : a measure of the resistance of a body to angular acceleration about a given axis that is equal to the sum of the products of each element of mass in the body and the square of the element's distance from the axis. 1 a : a property of matter by which it remains at rest or in uniform motion in the same straight line unless acted upon by some external force b : an analogous property of other physical quantities
2 : indisposition to motion, exertion, or change : INERTNESS

 

[randyg]

Huh? So is it the good players or the ones who have no natural feel? I think Hsin is a pretty natural player. She pauses with her stick in front right on the cueball, whereas Barry Emerson takes an exaggerated pause on his backswing, just before he swings through.

Linda, not my quote. We teach SET-PAUSE-FINISH for a valid reason. A reason Scott does not understand....randyg

 

[Egg McDogit]

Linda, not my quote. We teach SET-PAUSE-FINISH for a valid reason. A reason Scott does not understand....randyg

you want to separate the backstroke from the forward stroke...so the forward stroke is a pure motion...kind of like how camps teach throwing baseballs...is that right?

Pausing at the end of my backstroke kills what little speed control I have. I do sometimes hitch/pause in the middle of my backstroke though, but for a diff reason.

 

[Purdman]

you want to separate the backstroke from the forward stroke...so the forward stroke is a pure motion...kind of like how camps teach throwing baseballs...is that right?

Pausing at the end of my backstroke kills what little speed control I have. I do sometimes hitch/pause in the middle of my backstroke though, but for a diff reason.

It takes a differant set of muscles to draw the cue back than it does to propel it forward. The pause is to allow a smothe transfer of the muscles preventing the muscles from interfering with the transfer. There will always be a pause, we just suggest that you make it a two second pause.
Purdman

 

[Cane]

Linda, not my quote. We teach SET-PAUSE-FINISH for a valid reason. A reason Scott does not understand....randyg

Allow me to take that a little more down the line. SET, the rest of the cue tip at the cue ball, for me is so that my eyes have time to focus properly on my target. It takes the eyes about two seconds to focus properly and take in all the information that's out there on a target line. That "set" gives my eyes time to do that. I don't do it consciously, I do it because I've practiced it in 2 second incerments regularly for the past two years. Two second SET, Two second PAUSE (at the end of the backstroke), two second FREEZE after I finish my stroke. Am I an analytical player? Absolutely not. I am very analytical during practice, but not during play. I'm a very instinctive or a better word 'intuitive' player when I play competitively. I don't think about a SET, or a PAUSE or FINISH & FREEZE when I'm playing, it just happens. Now, it doesn't occur for a full two seconds like it does during practice or stroke drills, but it does happen.

As for Buddy Hall, Buddy has a very long pause at the end of his backstroke because his eyes are in Transition from the CB to the OB during his backstroke. He performs that long pause at the backstroke because his eyes need time to focus and evaluate (all going on subconsciously) his target and target line before he fires. Allison has the same eye pattern, therefore the same extended pause at the end of her backstroke. My eye pattern is different. I take my eyes to the CB at the SET, so my pause is ever so brief at the back of my stroke, but my SET at the cue ball is a little longer.

Preshot routine, Bridge hand to table, double check target line, two warm up strokes, SET, Slow backstroke, brief pause, Finish and freeze (I freeze so hard that I've been accused of dying on the table... I only move if a ball is headed for me or my cue). Works for me, and it works very well for me. If someone doesn't like it or can't stand to watch it (love ya, brother Scott, so don't take this personal), then screw 'em! What bothers them even more is my ability to cut a 80° or thinner cut shot 6 diamonds down table to the center of the pocket. I blame that on my stroke and aiming style, all of which requires that I SEE what I'm doing well... two seconds (or a little less) of focus before I start that backstroke.

Later,
Bob

PS: My speed control does NOT suffer because of my set or pause. I don't need a "continuous motion" cue to have a good "feel" for speed controle. As a matter of fact, I do speed control drills daily and have very good speed control and can adapt my speed to any table or any cloth in just a few shots.

 

[Ronoh]

PS: My speed control does NOT suffer because of my set or pause. I don't need a "continuous motion" cue to have a good "feel" for speed controle. As a matter of fact, I do speed control drills daily and have very good speed control and can adapt my speed to any table or any cloth in just a few shots.

I'm listening.

Do you use the diamond method or rail method dills for judging speed of tables?

If you'd rather PM, I'm game

 

[Cane]

I'm listening.

Do you use the diamond method or rail method dills for judging speed of tables?

If you'd rather PM, I'm game

Ronoh, PM not necessary. My "stroke speed" or the speed that I base all of my other speeds from, is a judged in diamonds. I sit the CB or an OB, doesn't matter, on the headstring, send it down table, back up table then back to center with one tip high. Regardless of table or cloth, I can usually calibrate that speed in within 3 strokes. After that, it's easy to move up and down anywhere from finesse speed strokes to break speed.

Later,
Bob

 

[buddha162]

I don't know if Juli Kelly pauses at the backstroke.

I'm not sure if JK even has a backstroke.

-Roger

 

[BRKNRUN]

I think I may be able to "sum" this up for both sides...

There is a definate "set" at the CB and final backstroke....It could possibly be better referred to as "transition"...

Some are slight, some are pronounced but everyone has one....This is one area that IS very similar to the full golf swing...ALL good golfers go through thier particular waggle (fast or slow) bet every one will "set" the club even for a brief moment before they start the back swing and at the top of the backswing...(referrred to as "transition" points)

The pool stroke is very similar in that respect.

Where people get into trouble is the "overpause". This is what I believe Snapshot is trying to refer too....If a player sits (pauses) too long in Golf or Pool at the ball, the body will start to settle...or go flat so to speak...You will lose your rythum or tempo, and thus you lose feel. (muscles tend to "jerk" as they are trying to recover from being flat)

As long as the "transition" or "pause" is being used to maintain a "tempo" or "rythum"...its fine...Pause too long...and you go flat...

Also...watch the "nature" of a person and you can pretty much guess the tempo he will play with, or need to play with in order to get better......Nick Price is a fast swinging golfer... He also walks fast and talks fast...that is his nature....Fred Couples has a slow tempo and pronounced "pause" at the top of his swing...He is a slower walker and talker...(more layed back)....Same applys to pool....Keith Mcready is a rather quick natured individual, so his stroke is on the quicker side.....Nick Varner is a slower more layed back natured individual.......he has a slower stroke and more pronounced pause...

What is that line..."everyone walks to the beat of thier own drum" .....If you try and walk to the beat of someone elses drum....you might trip....