PETITION THE WPA TO MODIFY 10 BALL RULE SET (Public Poll)

  • Thread starter Thread starter Scottster
  • Start date Start date

World recognized 10 ball rules

  • Yes I support the Below set of rules as World recognized 10 ball rules.

    Votes: 9 60.0%

  • No, I don't support the below 10 ball rules and agree with the current WPA 10 Ball Rules Set.

    Votes: 6 40.0%
  • Total voters
    15
S

Scottster

Guest
10 Ball

1 Determining the Break
2 Ten Ball Rack
3 Legal Break Shot
4 Second Shot of the Rack ? Push Out
5 Continuing Play
6 Spotting Balls
7 Standard Fouls
8 Serious Fouls
9 Stalemate

2. Ten Ball
Ten ball is played with Ten object balls numbered one through 10 and the cue ball. The balls are played in ascending numerical order. The player legally pocketing the 10 ball wins the rack.

2.1 Determining the Break
The player who wins the lag chooses who will break the first rack. (See 1.2 Lagging to Determine Order of Play.)


2.2 10 Ball Rack
The object balls are racked as tightly as possible in a Triangle shape, with the one ball at the apex of the diamond and on the foot spot, the ten ball in the middle of the triangle and the two and three ball placed on the left and right corners of the triangle. The other balls will be placed in the triangle without purposeful or intentional pattern. (See Regulation 4, Racking / Tapping of Balls.)


Ten Ball Rack




2.3 Legal Break Shot
The following rules apply to the break shot:
(a) the cue ball begins in hand behind the head string; and
(b) if no ball is pocketed, at least four object balls must be driven to one or more rails, or the shot is a foul. (See Regulation 17, Open Break Requirements.)

2.4 If the ten ball is pocketed in one of the 2 corner pockets at the foot of the table, it is respotted on the foot spot after the players inning is over, or he completes pocketing the nine ball.

2.5 Second Shot of the Rack ? Push Out
If no foul is committed on the break shot, the shooter may choose to play a ?push out? as his shot. He must make his intention known to the referee, and then rules 6.2 Wrong Ball First and 6.3 No Rail after Contact are suspended for the shot. If no foul is committed on a push out, the other player chooses who will shoot next.

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2.5 Continuing Play
If the shooter legally pockets any ball on a shot (except a push out, see 2.4 Second Shot of the Rack ? Push Out), he continues at the table for the next shot. If he legally pockets the ten ball on any shot (except a push out), he wins the rack. If the shooter fails to pocket a ball or fouls, play passes to the other player, and if no foul was committed, the incoming player must play the cue ball from the position left by the other player.

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2.6 Spotting Balls
If the ten ball is pocketed on a foul or push out, or driven off the table, it is spotted. (See 1.4 Spotting Balls.) No other object ball is ever spotted.

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2.7 Standard Fouls
If the shooter commits a standard foul, play passes to his opponent. The cue ball is in hand, and the incoming player may place it anywhere on the playing surface. (See 1.5 Cue Ball in Hand)

The following are standard fouls at ten ball:

6.1 Cue Ball Scratch or off the Table
6.2 Wrong Ball First The first object ball contacted by the cue ball on each shot must be the lowest-numbered ball remaining on the table.
6.3 No Rail after Contact
6.4 No Foot on Floor
6.5 Ball Driven off the Table The only jumped object ball that is spotted is the ten.
6.6 Touched Ball
6.7 Double Hit / Frozen Balls
6.8 Push Shot
6.9 Balls Still Moving
6.10 Bad Cue Ball Placement
6.12 Cue Stick on the Table
6.13 Playing out of Turn
6.15 Slow Play
 
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I wish you had more options because I do not agree with either set of rules.

My main disagreement with your rules is the 10-ball on the break part.

I have held several 10-ball tournaments and to this day I see no reason for this rule. The tracked percentages of the 10-ball on the break in any pocket is less than what is currently in 9-ball.

Mj
 
Hi Mike, I predicated those rules on the break based on the rules from the Florida Pro Tour and Last year's Predator World 10 Ball Championships.
 
Scottster said:
Hi Mike, I predicated those rules on the break based on the rules from the Florida Pro Tour and Last year's Predator World 10 Ball Championships.
Click to expand...

Here is a copy of the response I sent to the WPA through their website which is located at http://wpa-pool.com/index.asp?content=contact .


Please revise the 10-ball rules !

The problem is that the your current rules are no where near or close to the tradition of a rotation game. Whether its 9, 10 or 15-ball, the new WPA 10-ball rules do not reflect the history, tradition or current way the game of rotation is played. They exactly reflect 8-ball and 14.1 and those are not a rotation games.

The ability for a player to make a ball and call safe should absolutely not be an option.

Call shot in my opinion should additionally not be an option.

You would better serve the entire billiard playing community if the WPA 10-ball rules were exactly like the WPA 9-ball rules.

Respectfully,

Mike Janis
President - The Viking Cue 9-Ball Tour
Representing 5317 members in the USA

And YES, over the last 14 years of the Viking Cue 9-Ball Tour we have played using the WPA rules of 9-ball. Thank you for making them available for everyone to use.
 
Ten Ball

While we are all voicing our opinions on Ten Ball, here are mine.

1) I do NOT want Ten Ball to be played like 9-Ball with one more ball. I prefer it to have a character of its own.

2) I much prefer call shot. Luck has no place in a game of skill and I have seen luck determine the winner at even the highest levels far too many times.

3) Bring back the spot shot. Balls illegally pocketed on a scratch would spot and the incoming player would have ball in hand behind the head string.

Just my two cents.
 
Jerry Forsyth said:
While we are all voicing our opinions on Ten Ball, here are mine.

1) I do NOT want Ten Ball to be played like 9-Ball with one more ball. I prefer it to have a character of its own.

2) I much prefer call shot. Luck has no place in a game of skill and I have seen luck determine the winner at even the highest levels far too many times.

3) Bring back the spot shot. Balls illegally pocketed on a scratch would spot and the incoming player would have ball in hand behind the head string.

Just my two cents.
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Jerry, would the spot shot be only on the 10-ball ? If not then are you suggesting no ball in hand at all during the game ?

Also, if the above assumed is true then lets say there is a poor break and a scratch and there are several balls clustered around the spot and the 1-ball either fell in a pocket or ended up behind the line. This would mean that the 1-ball would go in the back of the cluster (Assuming the spot was covered) and the incoming player would have CB behind the headstring. Wouldn't this be very unfail because that player would have to kick mindlessly at the 1-ball and have almost no clue what the result would be. And with call pocket to boot that incoming player gets the worste of it.

Now you are severely penalizing a player that didn't make a mistake.
 
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I think luck deterrmines the winner in a lot of sports. However the saying, "the better I am, the luckier I get" certainly applies here.

How do two top players make it to the final table? Certainly not through a preponderance of luck.

Any rule that punishes the incoming player is not a good rule in any sport.
 
WOW.......nice john.......i like that....any rule that penalizes the incoming player is not a good rule. RIGHT ON!!!!
Texas Express....the only way to play.
 
MikeJanis said:
Jerry, would the spot shot be only on the 10-ball ? If not then are you suggesting no ball in hand at all during the game ?

Also, if the above assumed is true then lets say there is a poor break and a scratch and there are several balls clustered around the spot and the 1-ball either fell in a pocket or ended up behind the line. This would mean that the 1-ball would go in the back of the cluster (Assuming the spot was covered) and the incoming player would have CB behind the headstring. Wouldn't this be very unfail because that player would have to kick mindlessly at the 1-ball and have almost no clue what the result would be. And with call pocket to boot that incoming player gets the worste of it.

Now you are severely penalizing a player that didn't make a mistake.
Click to expand...

I agree, I was watching a old Sands 9ball match from 87 the other night and player "A" scratched on the break and made 2 balls, they came up and player "B" had BIH behind the head string with no plan for anything, I remember when I first started in pool I hated that and seeing that math the other night reminded of that rule, it clearly penalizes player "B" who didnt foul. How is this a good rule? As it turned out player "B" opened them up an didnt make a ball, player "A" stepped up in his second inning after the scratch and ran out, thus it was a profitable foul and that just dosent make sence to me. If a player fouls on the break let him pay for his foul. The only justification I can see here is it benefits the weaker player who will foul on the break more often and not let the stronger player capatolize on the foul-which is a poor way to level the game.

I like express rules, if player "A" scratches on the break player "B" gets bih and let the party start...


Also if the 10 goes in on the break let it be a win, it dosent happen often anyways.

ten ball is still a short rack rotation game as is 6, 9 ball. If you want to have a difficult level game then play proper rotation with all 15 balls.

All 10 ball is, is a evolutionary thing because 9 ball got to be too easy over the past 20 years with 860 cloth, smarter breaking etc. So when 10 ball gets easy then rotation will logically be the game, like in the PI where they are ahead of the USA in cue sports anyways, or snooker in the UK big tables small pockets, I have noticed pockets shrinking on our tables here since I started in 85, in that old Sands match I just mentioned they were buckets and thats why there were alot of 6 packs back then, you dont see many 6 packs on Diamonds....yet.
 
Spot Shot

Mike, Yes, the scenario you imagine is possible, but in all the years I played 9-Ball under those rules it was by far the exception and not the normal outcome. The whole idea is to bring back the spot shot and the skill that it required. The problem with ball-in-hand anywhere is that it is simply too easy a situation. The penalty for a scratch should be loss of turn and table, not loss of game.
 
I like the way Jerry Forsyth suggested, because it is very close to what I thought 10-Ball was until I discovered there is no magic mystery around it (as it is played just like 9-Ball at the moment) some years ago.
If we make it call shot game we will have to enforce spot shots, just to deal with a situation when a ball accidentally falls in as a result of a safety. But to handle the situation described by Mike Janis we could allow a player to return the shot after a foul to his opponent who committed it - like it is in ring game rules, right?
Thus if a player feels he doesn't want that position because it is too tough, he returns the favor to the shooting player. This makes it fair game IMO.
 
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