Phenolic shaft inserts- good or bad?

[spliced]

What do you guys think of having phenolic inserts in shafts for radial pins to thread into (ex. The new predator shafts)?

I thought that the whole point of having a radial was the maximum (97%) wood contact, resulting in better feel. It seems like with a phenolic insert wrapped around the pin, that feel would be lost. I know they are supposed to be strong but wouldn't sealed wood threads work just as well?

Also, I'm guessing that the insert itself is threaded into place, and it is probably not a radial thread, so again isn't that missing the point?

Thanks
IM

 

[Michael Webb]

The insert itself makes the shaft hit more stiff, atleast it does when I add a phenolic insert.

 

[cuemaker03]

Phenolic inserts

I had a McDaniels cue with phenolic inserts. I really liked the way it felt when you hit a ball with it. The cue played well. I think that the phenolic insert is much better than no insert at all, but have yet to test the theory by trying a cue with a shaft having only wood threads VS. a shaft with a phenolic insert on the same cue. I feel that the phenolic insert may add a little ping to the hit, but it has been a long time since I have played with one because I sold the McDaniels cue. As far a duribility goes I have never seen a phenolic insert stripped out, but have seen wood threads strip out.

 

[curlyscues]

I had a McDaniels cue with phenolic inserts. I really liked the way it felt when you hit a ball with and the cue played well. I think that the phenolic insert is much better than no insert at all, but have yet to test the theory by trying a cue with a shaft having only wood threads VS. a shaft with a phenolic insert on the same cue. I feel that the phenolic insert may add a little ping to the hit, but it has been a long time since I have played with one because I sold the McDaniels cue. As far a duribility goes I have never seen a phenolic insert stripped out, but have seen wood threads strip out.

i could be wrong, but, i think it was gilbert that used something like that. and i have seen his threads turn to dust after about a year.
M.C.

 

[Michael Webb]

I had a McDaniels cue with phenolic inserts. I really liked the way it felt when you hit a ball with and the cue played well. I think that the phenolic insert is much better than no insert at all, but have yet to test the theory by trying a cue with a shaft having only wood threads VS. a shaft with a phenolic insert on the same cue. I feel that the phenolic insert may add a little ping to the hit, but it has been a long time since I have played with one because I sold the McDaniels cue. As far a duribility goes I have never seen a phenolic insert stripped out, but have seen wood threads strip out.

Easy to strip out the threads, I tell people to screw the shaft a 1/2 turn backwards to seat the thread. I do this on everything just second nature.

 

[Cue Crazy]

Easy to strip out the threads, I tell people to screw the shaft a 1/2 turn backwards to seat the thread. I do this on everything just second nature.

Tap Tap Tap. second nature for Me also. Most stripped threads are a result of cross threading. A pilot on the pin seems to help alittle bit with the smaller pins, I have'nt tried It on the 3/8 pins though, but some of those come with one.

 

[desert1pocket]

The phenolic that predator is using in both the shafts and butts seems to be much softer than other phenolics I have seen. They feel like they deaden the feedback to me, and when I poked the phenolic part in my predator butt with a toothpick, it felt kinda soft, almost like a hard rubber. I have played with other cues with the pins and or inserts set into phenolic, and they seemed nice and solid. At first I thought maybe I just got a bad piece of phenolic in my cue, but the shaft I just got is the same.

 

[pdcue]

Not a radial thread on the insert = missing the point?

what is your concern here?
that the thread is a not the same pitch, or that it isn't "radial"?

Dale<inquirn' mind>

 

[J&D CUSTOMS]

I believe you can't beat the hit of wood to wood. Unless specified by the customer , when changing pins in repairs , I always suggest using a rock hard maple plug for the conversion. The feel of phenolic is hard , but the wood to wood feel is where it's at. The feel is deadened to me if phenolic is used compared to the choice wood!
Jim

 

[zeeder]

Easy to strip out the threads, I tell people to screw the shaft a 1/2 turn backwards to seat the thread. I do this on everything just second nature.

My first decent cue was a Huebler which I would always backthread to avoid cross threading, since the linen insert is easy to ruin. I now do it anytime I screw a cue together no matter what! I don't see why everyone doesn't do this...lol.

 

[Michael Webb]

My first decent cue was a Huebler which I would always backthread to avoid cross threading, since the linen insert is easy to ruin. I now do it anytime I screw a cue together no matter what! I don't see why everyone doesn't do this...lol.

Because it takes 1 second.

 

[Double-Dave]

Easy to strip out the threads, I tell people to screw the shaft a 1/2 turn backwards to seat the thread. I do this on everything just second nature.

Just making sure I understand correctly, do you mean I should "unscrew" my shaft while holding the pin against the threads before I start screwing it together?

gr. Dave

 

[desert1pocket]

Just making sure I understand correctly, do you mean I should "unscrew" my shaft while holding the pin against the threads before I start screwing it together?

gr. Dave

Correct, this helps prevent accidental cross-threading.

 

[Michael Webb]

Just making sure I understand correctly, do you mean I should "unscrew" my shaft while holding the pin against the threads before I start screwing it together?

gr. Dave

By doing about a 1/2 turn, the shaft will automatically sit on the pin. You'll feel it. Full proof everytime.

 

[spliced]

Not a radial thread on the insert = missing the point?

what is your concern here?
that the thread is a not the same pitch, or that it isn't "radial"?

Dale<inquirn' mind>

Both. Say I have a radial pin (U shaped threads) into a phenolic insert, but the insert threads into the shaft with V threads instead of U shaped threads like the radial pin. I now basically have a V threaded phenolic pin with a metal center, instead of a radial thread contacting the wood threads, which sort of misses the point.. right? Unless uniloc or someone else makes an insert for the radial pin that also has radial threads on the outside, it seems to me you are losing the benefit of the radial threads on the shaft pin.

Mr Webb, what thread do you use when threading your inserts into the shaft?

 

[Michael Webb]

Both. Say I have a radial pin (U shaped threads) into a phenolic insert, but the insert threads into the shaft with V threads instead of U shaped threads like the radial pin. I now basically have a V threaded phenolic pin with a metal center, instead of a radial thread contacting the wood threads, which sort of misses the point.. right? Unless uniloc or someone else makes an insert for the radial pin that also has radial threads on the outside, it seems to me you are losing the benefit of the radial threads on the shaft pin.

Mr Webb, what thread do you use when threading your inserts into the shaft?

When using phenolic, I thread O.D. 1/2X13, two glue channels and a 9/16O.D. head about .100 for countersink.

 

[Arnot Wadsworth]

Just making sure I understand correctly, do you mean I should "unscrew" my shaft while holding the pin against the threads before I start screwing it together?

gr. Dave

With the cue's bumper on the floor, rotate the shaft counter-clockwise while applying slight pressure against the pin. You should feel a little "click" as the threads on the shaft drop off the threads on the pin. Now if you rotate your shaft in a clockwise direction you will feel it pick up the threads and start screwing into the shaft.

By the way - Anytime you attempt to join a nut or bolt, do the same thing and you will not ever cross thread them.

Good Cuemaking,

 

[cutter]

Phenolic shaft inserts.

Here's my two cents worth. I'd be surprised if the phenolic plug is threaded in. Probably just a plug. With modern day adhesives doubt if they are taking the time to thread twice. Pretty much all phenolic is the same hardness, at least not noticeable by pushing on it. I'd be willing to bet with a radial pin that if you had two shafts one with and one with out you couldn't tell the difference. Now other threads may be a different story. But you already have phenolic around the outside of the butt and shaft. Look at the joint closely, but the time you take out the area of the pin you have just about as much phenolic as wood in a normal radial joint. Also begs the question, does the compression in the shaft travel down the center, edge or both at the same time. Let's also think sinusoidal wave propagation. Will a plug of phenolic barely longer than the pin it's self make any difference in the stiffness of the joint or not. Brings up a lot of good questions. And a lot of smoke and mirrors. If I had to make a bet, I'd go with the durability of the joint as the main reason they are doing it. The radial design gives you a lot of glue lines to tap thru, maybe they were having problems with returns. I've never seen one that was stripped, but I'm sure they had some. Just a matter of numbers.

 

[bell]

Simple, but this is a great tip. Thanks.

 

[pdcue]

Both. Say I have a radial pin (U shaped threads) into a phenolic insert, but the insert threads into the shaft with V threads instead of U shaped threads like the radial pin. I now basically have a V threaded phenolic pin with a metal center, instead of a radial thread contacting the wood threads, which sort of misses the point.. right?

not right
what you have is the same metal pin, with the same thread,
screwing into phenol instead of wood.

The insert is 'bonded' to the wood with adhesieve, making it
esentially one unit.

screwing threaded parts togrther is not the same as
bonding<glue, weld, etc.> them together

Dale