Phenolic Tip (or similar) on CF Shaft (Revo) ...?
- Thread starter JessEm
- Start date
No. Phenolic tips damage the cue ball and are technically illegal.
Both good points. Thank you. When you say illegal, I assume pro tournaments? I've been using phenolic for over a year and haven't been called out, nor damaged a cueball. I probably don't break hard enough.
I’ve never heard of phelnolic tips being used on CF.
All phelnolic tips I’ve seen in use were on break cues. I’ve personally seen and heard them used in my local APA, they’re obnoxiously loud.
All phelnolic tips I’ve seen in use were on break cues. I’ve personally seen and heard them used in my local APA, they’re obnoxiously loud.
I think that if you look carefully, you will see that the cue ball is scuffed where the phenolic tip hit it. You have to look carefully and there are some techniques that will help with looking for such scuffs. If the cue ball is all beat up it probably doesn't make any difference. It's not a matter of cracking the cue ball.
Phrnoloc/G10 tips on break cues can leave little circular surface cracks if hit with enough speed.
Phenolic and G10 are very different, with very different hardnesses.
I wonder if Bob Jewett was making this distinction when he said phenolic tips were “technically” illegal. Technically according to whom or what rule set. I know G10 is harder than the cue ball and can cause those half moon fractures. I didn’t think that was the case with phenolic though.
Anyone?
KMRUNOUT
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The WPA equipment specs. They are not perfectly clear, but it is clear that phenolic is illegal:
The cue tip may not be of a material that can scratch or damage the addressed ball. The cue tip on any stick must be composed of a piece of specially processed leather or other fibrous or pliable material that extends the natural line of the shaft end of the cue and contacts the cue ball when the shot is executed..
Why not use let's say Hammerhead, Taom or some other similar break tips which seem to have better results over phenolic?
It seems like for example Cuetec uses Taom break tip for their Breach breaker? So it should be legal. BTW what tips had Predator used for years for their previous very popular break cues?)
Personally I like how Hammerhead works on my purple heart break shaft and I guess it would have good results on a cf shaft too.
So I don't see many advantages of a phenolic over mentioned tips other than it's not hard to make the phenolic tip youself for somebody having a lathe.
It seems like for example Cuetec uses Taom break tip for their Breach breaker? So it should be legal. BTW what tips had Predator used for years for their previous very popular break cues?)
Personally I like how Hammerhead works on my purple heart break shaft and I guess it would have good results on a cf shaft too.
So I don't see many advantages of a phenolic over mentioned tips other than it's not hard to make the phenolic tip youself for somebody having a lathe.
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Thanks again for the input. There seems to be a little disagreement over tip hardnesses, so I found this chart...
Full chart: Tip Hardness Chart
In lite of the info posted here, I'm going to give the Kamui Black Hard that came on this shaft a chance. The KBH's rating is actually high according to the chart, and truth be told, I've been breaking pretty good with it for the couple days I've had it. It's not the distinct snap of phenolic that I'm used to, but I can't complain with the results thus far. It does seem considerably more forgiving in terms of unintended spin, and tip misplacement on the CB, than the phenolic...
Full chart: Tip Hardness Chart
In lite of the info posted here, I'm going to give the Kamui Black Hard that came on this shaft a chance. The KBH's rating is actually high according to the chart, and truth be told, I've been breaking pretty good with it for the couple days I've had it. It's not the distinct snap of phenolic that I'm used to, but I can't complain with the results thus far. It does seem considerably more forgiving in terms of unintended spin, and tip misplacement on the CB, than the phenolic...
A cue maker/repairman I know sorted boxes of tips with a hardness gauge (durometer). A box of "mediums" had quite a spread on actual hardness.
A little more pop with phenolic.
14% more, to be exact. (if hardness factors between the phenolic (99) and my current (85) is a fair equivalency..)
So isn't linen phenolic fibrous and pliable? Aren't really all materials "pliable" to a point?
KMRUNOUT
As I understand the Shore D durometer numbers, the maximum is 100, so something infinitely hard would be 100 and something slightly less hard would be 99. If you want more cue ball speed for a given stick speed by changing the tip, there is a page on Dr. Dave's website and a video that discusses cue efficiency, which depends on tips a lot. Here's the page: https://billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/efficiency/
I believe there is or was something on Predator's website as well.
Bottom line: harder tips usually get more speed into the cue ball. Something like 15% higher speed than standard playing tips.
No, I meant to ask why would you use a revo as a breaker?
Just personal preference. I like the feel of CF. Particularly its smoothness. I think the combination of lighter, yet stiffer, also plays in a little.
I was breaking with my CF shooter for a couple weeks while my break-shaft was getting fixed and really liked it. However, the smaller, softer tip wasn't ideal for breaking.
Well, the BK Rush is extremely popular and Predator put the REVO on it, so it seems to be working for a lot of people.
I know that I love mine...
According to Pred. the front-end of a playing Revo is not designed to take the constant pounding from breaking. The Revo break shaft is.
Well when it comes to those cf shafts on such break cues as BK Rush and Mezz Power Break G... the best thing about them in my opinion is their low deflection combined with good energy transfer.
For example BK3 already had quite low deflection...noticeably lower than Mezz Power Break Kai while energy transfer felt fairly similar.
Now both Predator and Mezz top break cues are pretty close either for deflection which is quite low or energy transfer.
One of our best players got his Mezz Power Break G two days ago. So now he'll be getting used to it after his Power Break Kai he used for a few months. It should be easier than after switching from BK3 to Power Break Kai a few months ago.
BTW he used Taom break tips on his BK3 and Kai being friends with Fedor. Now when he got his Power Break G the only thing he was not impressed about was the tip on it. So he's going to replace it to the one he got used to.
So I had possibility to test all mentioned break cues and my major interest was to compare it with what I built for myself.
When it comes to energy transfer and spreading the balls easily using less effort = more accuracy...I have better results with my purple heart break shaft (hammerhead tip) on a full spliced butt which also contributes a lot. Of course it is built due to my preferences when it comes to the length/weight/balance.
As I said the only advantage of those cf shafts for me is their lower deflection...ok their smoothness is also a plus. Is it worth $$$ asked? Everyone is free to make his own choice.
When it comes to the butts of Rush and G ...well for that amount of $$$ they could spend more time designing something more interesting than so similar black sticks with huge letters / logos on them. Jacoby did not want to go too far too). So it seems to become a trend.
P.S. here is a recent match of 10-ball with a mentioned player where you can see how his break works).
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For example BK3 already had quite low deflection...noticeably lower than Mezz Power Break Kai while energy transfer felt fairly similar.
Now both Predator and Mezz top break cues are pretty close either for deflection which is quite low or energy transfer.
One of our best players got his Mezz Power Break G two days ago. So now he'll be getting used to it after his Power Break Kai he used for a few months. It should be easier than after switching from BK3 to Power Break Kai a few months ago.
BTW he used Taom break tips on his BK3 and Kai being friends with Fedor. Now when he got his Power Break G the only thing he was not impressed about was the tip on it. So he's going to replace it to the one he got used to.
So I had possibility to test all mentioned break cues and my major interest was to compare it with what I built for myself.
When it comes to energy transfer and spreading the balls easily using less effort = more accuracy...I have better results with my purple heart break shaft (hammerhead tip) on a full spliced butt which also contributes a lot. Of course it is built due to my preferences when it comes to the length/weight/balance.
As I said the only advantage of those cf shafts for me is their lower deflection...ok their smoothness is also a plus. Is it worth $$$ asked? Everyone is free to make his own choice.
When it comes to the butts of Rush and G ...well for that amount of $$$ they could spend more time designing something more interesting than so similar black sticks with huge letters / logos on them. Jacoby did not want to go too far too). So it seems to become a trend.
P.S. here is a recent match of 10-ball with a mentioned player where you can see how his break works).
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