Phillipino's and English(spin)

[ENGLISH!]

Here's my take on why that is. Most of the better players in the past had no formal instruction. They learned just by playing, and by a few "tips" passed on from other players. When one only learns through playing, they tend to key in on certain things that worked for them.

For example, they one day had a soft shot with a good amount of spin required. What is now known as a finesse shot. They just happened to use a light grip on it with just their fingers on the cue, and found that they were successful. So, the next time a shot like that came up, they tried it again, and were successful again.

So, to them, that shot required a different grip and different way of shooting it. A different stroke. And, they passed that on to someone along the way.

What they didn't realize, is how the balls actually "work" with everything. They didn't realize that they could have made the shot with the same results using a standard way of shooting, and only varying the force behind the shot.

Today, much more is known about ball reaction and all the rest that goes into a good stroke. One of the things that we have learned, is that there is a way to play without having all the gadgets and bells and whistles that some think are dark, hidden secrets that only a few know about. While a lot of that "stuff" may work, it really isn't necessary and only adds to what can go wrong.

Or...they tried shooting the shot many times with their standard way of shooting but with less force & never got the complete result that they wanted, so...they tried it a different way & found success.

Each individual reader can make their own determination as to which seems more logical & makes more sense.

 

[CJ Wiley]

the truth from playing him many, many hours gambling and in tournament play.

In answer to the OP's question, I believe (after watching 100s and 100s of hours of Efren on video) that he uses primarily BHE. He uses an exceptionally long bridge, and BHE is just easier/more natural. There are some cases where he will use a combination of BHE and FHE, usually when he's trying to get more out of the CB no a reasonably straight shot. He's also a master of slow spin shots, making the CB actally curve just using low outside/inside to get around an interfering ball edge. Most folks would jack up and masse, he sees the potential of just slowly twisting the ball around the edge. Lots of top players can and do use it, but nobody does it as well as Efren.

He also uses a LOT less spin than most folks accuse him of. He prefers natural angles when they are open and will draw or follow to get there instead of automatically spinning it two rails and out. Why go two rails the long way when the shortest distance to center table is off one or no rails?

You are exactly right, when I ask Efren what his "secret" was he simply said "No Spin".....everyone knows what Mike Lebron said about him "he uses a touch of inside"......I know many don't want to believe this is what he does, however, I know the truth from playing him many, many hours gambling and in tournament play.

On fast, tournament cloth everyone has to adjust their game accordingly.

 

[garczar]

Gotta hand it to 'ya, you're more relentless than a used-car dealer. TOI to the rescue!

 

[garczar]

Just a 'lil dig CJ. Love what you're doing for pool. This darn game requires passion to play and even more to teach. Rock on brother.

 

[Danimal]

I was chatting with Jeffrey "Ignasty" Ignacio recently and he was showing me some physics-bending cut shots that he practices, all of which required moderate amounts of inside english.

He demonstrated to me that he lines up his shots centerball, and comes to a rest after his practice strokes. On the money stroke he swipes the english on.

He uses an old 314 with the cat on it, which I believe was the precursor to the 314/2. He plays rather sporty (as an understatement), and couldn't execute the same shots with my maple shaft (neither could I - any of the shots he showed would have required tremendous amounts of practice).

 

[Bob Jewett]

... He uses an old 314 with the cat on it, which I believe was the precursor to the 314/2. He plays rather sporty (as an understatement), and couldn't execute the same shots with my maple shaft (neither could I - any of the shots he showed would have required tremendous amounts of practice).

He would have had to either line up for a fuller hit with center ball or used a much shorter bridge.

 

[Danimal]

He would have had to either line up for a fuller hit with center ball or used a much shorter bridge.

Understood. Not my preferred method for applying english, but who am I to argue? Guy has snapped off almost every tournament he has entered since arriving here.

 

[BilliardsAbout]

Two of the folks I've discussed "staying near the middle with" recently include Tom Kennedy and a fellow who used to road trip with Vernon "Burnie" Elliott. A dash there, a flick there, a touch of inside or outside there. I agree.

Also, part of the talk was regarding taking aim using english but backstroking towards center thus providing BHE on the final stroke forward.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I was chatting with Jeffrey "Ignasty" Ignacio recently and he was showing me some physics-bending cut shots that he practices, all of which required moderate amounts of inside english.).

I don't believe any cut shot requires inside English (unless you're hitting rail first).

pj
chgo

 

[Danimal]

I don't believe any cut shot requires inside English (unless you're hitting rail first).

pj
chgo

Agreed, but the shots he was showing me were of the 90 degree variety and also some severe back cuts. He explained and demonstrated to me that he liked to swipe a little bit of inside on the CB on the last stroke in order to make the shots.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Agreed, but the shots he was showing me were of the 90 degree variety and also some severe back cuts. He explained and demonstrated to me that he liked to swipe a little bit of inside on the CB on the last stroke in order to make the shots.

What that does, especially with a high squirt cue, is it sends the cue ball out & can then swerve it back so that the CB is then approaching the OB from an angle that allows a thicker hit relative to the line of the the angle from where the CB initially sat. (Is that a run on sentence?)

In essence it can get a more than 90* cut relative to the initial alignment between the pocket, OB, & CB, because the CB is approaching on a different line & that can get the OB to go farther than with the nearly 90* hit.

This is a shot that is sort of lost when one goes to an LD(low squirt) shaft.

Best 2 You & All,
Rick