pitted ferrule

cubswin

Just call me Joe...
Silver Member
I have a ferrule that looks to be pitted on a joss shaft. Nothing really deep, just little black specks on the ferrule. I'm not sure its pitting, but it sure seems like it.

Anyone ever seen anything like this? Probably going to have schon cues fix it while they are redoing the butt of my schon. Or should I send it off and get a ivorine-x ferrule? How do the customers report liking the ivorine x ferrules?
 
Black specks are very common in Linen Melamine. It is just dust particals that get into the material when manufactured. It won't hurt anything with the ferrule or hit, but if it distracts you too much you might want to change to something else.
Chris
www.cuesmith.com
 
cubswin said:
I have a ferrule that looks to be pitted on a joss shaft. Nothing really deep, just little black specks on the ferrule. I'm not sure its pitting, but it sure seems like it.

Anyone ever seen anything like this? Probably going to have schon cues fix it while they are redoing the butt of my schon. Or should I send it off and get a ivorine-x ferrule? How do the customers report liking the ivorine x ferrules?
Joss cues uses a material called aegis, an off white ivoryish color. It is common for aegis to pit when machined. Usually the material has to be sealed properly after machining. If someone worked on the cue and did not reseal it properly, then the problem arises...dirt, chalk, etc gets in the pitholes
and makes it look dirty. It is also very common with ivorine III.
 
Ivor-X is what I was thinking. And it is most certainly pitting, can feel it with my finger nail. Thought at first it was just dirt on the surface, but it isn't. I don't shoot much with that shaft, so not a huge distraction when its in the case. I just have some dings in the butt of the cue I want to get fixed, and thought I'd replace the ferrule while I was without the shaft. Its just a spare shaft for my schon, that is about the same size and taper as the schon shaft I play with.
 
Ted Harris said:
Usually the material has to be sealed properly after machining.
How, or with what do you seal ferrules? Will sealing them make them more chalk resistant. What grit do you polish with after sealing?

Tracy
 
Ted Harris said:
Joss cues uses a material called aegis, an off white ivoryish color. It is common for aegis to pit when machined. Usually the material has to be sealed properly after machining. If someone worked on the cue and did not reseal it properly, then the problem arises...dirt, chalk, etc gets in the pitholes
and makes it look dirty. It is also very common with ivorine III.

Dear Ted:

Could you elaborate a bit on what you meant by sealing it properly, please?

Richard
 
I've found Aegis to be very nice to machine. If the last couple of passes aren't taken very deep or quickly, it comes out beautifully and doesn't have pits at all...and I haven't found a material that I like the hit of better. That problem with Ivorine III can almost be overcome with the same technique...very slow light passes the closer you get to final size. I tried using Micarta for a while but found the material fell apart when I tapped it. What do you use Ted???
Mike

Ted Harris said:
Joss cues uses a material called aegis, an off white ivoryish color. It is common for aegis to pit when machined. Usually the material has to be sealed properly after machining. If someone worked on the cue and did not reseal it properly, then the problem arises...dirt, chalk, etc gets in the pitholes
and makes it look dirty. It is also very common with ivorine III.
 
Incidentally, Schon switched to Aegis about a year or so ago too....they used to use Micarta.
Mike

Pancerny said:
I've found Aegis to be very nice to machine. If the last couple of passes aren't taken very deep or quickly, it comes out beautifully and doesn't have pits at all...and I haven't found a material that I like the hit of better. That problem with Ivorine III can almost be overcome with the same technique...very slow light passes the closer you get to final size. I tried using Micarta for a while but found the material fell apart when I tapped it. What do you use Ted???
Mike
 
From My experience As already mentioned, they do need reasealed, or at atleast of couple of wax coats at a minimum. Shaft sealer Is usually enough to do It. With these type of materials even the dust from turning the tip can stain them. I almost always have to clean these types of materials before sealing, no matter how well I keep the dust off when working it, some will make It back on to the ferrule. after cleaned, sometimes I can kind of burmish the ferrule as you would the tip, and helps alittle.
Also as mentioned as well, some do have impurities embedded in the material, but does not seem to effect the play any.
I also make several slow smooth passes on My cuts, I usually start as far as half way from My destination, and sometimes even farther then that, this might be taken It overboard to some, but since I started doing It this way, My final cuts are almost always perfect, don't need hand worked much, and keeps any high sides to the bare minimum. I am starting to do all my tenons this way as well, and think I am going to stick with it. Time is Money, and I guess some might prefer to chop down closer to the destination first before making finals, But IMO It saves me Work down the line, and produced a cleaner final product. This seems to be especially true when turning metals. On the few cues I am building nearing completion now, I even went as far as turning the tenons down as if they were shafts or butts, allowing time for movement in the wood in between passes. I know that was really extreme, but only did It on 4 cues, and time was not an issue really at that time, Just wanted to see the end result. Gotta feeling I am going to like It, from how true the blanks ran right after glue up, even before first cuts to mate the forearm & handle. Greg
 
RSB-Refugee said:
How, or with what do you seal ferrules? Will sealing them make them more chalk resistant. What grit do you polish with after sealing?
nipponbilliards said:
Could you elaborate a bit on what you meant by sealing it properly, please?

Super glue. Some materials will still stain if you sand back to the ferrule material, but it will keep the chalk out of the pores that are filled with the super glue. Kinda redundant if you ask me. The only real solution on these materials is to build up the super glue on the ferrule enough that when you sand it back down it does not go through the super glue.
 
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Pancerny said:
I've found Aegis to be very nice to machine. If the last couple of passes aren't taken very deep or quickly, it comes out beautifully and doesn't have pits at all...and I haven't found a material that I like the hit of better. That problem with Ivorine III can almost be overcome with the same technique...very slow light passes the closer you get to final size. I tried using Micarta for a while but found the material fell apart when I tapped it. What do you use Ted???
Mike
What you say is true of all thermoset materials in my experience, but that doesn't mean that there are plenty of people out there that don't know how to machine it properly. There are many people out there that cut the ferrules to final size in one pass, or make cuts that are too stressful for the material, hence the pits. For that matter, use the wrong shape on the tool, or the wrong feed, etc. It could also be a dull turning tool as well. :mad:
I use melamine. :cool:
 
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Hey Guys how about this.
Is it possible that a tenon turned faster would kind of have more tearout, or for lack of a better word, more open grain, as where one turned with smaller cuts, more simular to burmish effect could actually produce seperate hits, even as minute of a difference as it might would be? I would think the open grain would hold glue better, but seems to me the other Hits a little harder in the end, and produces a stronger tenon from breakage, altough can't say that for the glue up part of it as that would seem Like the downfall If one. I realize the face would play into this, so these would be considered cut the same way. Any Thoughts, or am I just getting too deep in My thinking here?

The super glue seems good also, found that out by mistake, but have not actually tried coating it to build up something to sand on, will have to give It a shot. Thanks, Greg
 
Sealing a fresh ferrule

> After installing a new thermoset ferrule,or cleaning up a dirty one,I use the brush-on Loctite thin formula CA glue,then just BARELY wipe it down with a fresh paper towel. Trust me,if you do this incorrectly,you WILL create a bigger headache for yourself than you might be prepared for,so this technique is not for the squeamish,jittery,or inexperienced operator. As far as sanding it back out,start with 800 or 1000 grit,make the whole tip and ferrule look the same,move up a grade and repeat until you reach 2000 grit,then buff with white polishing compound,or use one of those 3 sided nail BUFFERS,not an emery board,the ones I am referring to are basically 2400,4000 and 12000 Micro-Mesh on a stick. Be careful not to overheat as well. This also does a great job as far as putting a finishing touch on tips,and tends to make mushrooming a somewhat slower process. As far as general machining goes,proper feeds/speeds,correct tool geometry,and light cuts are invaluable for "sneaking up" on finish size. Tommy D.
 
One more thing...

> Oh yeah,maybe others have different results,but I personally don't use HSS cutting tools for ANYTHING lathe related if I can help it,carbide stays sharp and useable longer,and in most cases allows slightly faster cutting,hence better surface finishes,possibly making exceptions for softer thermoplastics. The indexable tool holders that use the TCMT 21.51 inserts are great,but pricey,so look around for them. Lathemaster.com has about the best price I have found on them,but they aren't all that difficult to make. Tommy D.
 
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