Pivot Point Aiming...

[Jaden]

If you look at the below illustration, you'll see two things illustrated.

How PPA (Pivot Point Aiming) works and how to find the correct initial aim line.

You'll see that there is a line drawn through the center of the OB leading to the pocket and then a parallel line drawn through the center of the CB.

The point on the BACK of the OB that this line intersects represents the CP (contact point) on the OB.

The point of the line that intersects the FRONT of the CB represents the CP on the CB.

If you line those two points up and then have a parallel line that goes through the center of the CB, that represents the initial correct center ball aim line.

Once you have that line (as a starting point) PPA is all about ensuring that the PP of the cue you are using falls on that point. It shouldn't matter what type of english you are using although as I have stated the more parallel the cue's shaft is to the playing surface, the less of an effect swerve becomes.

For medium to hard shots, this makes PPA very accurate, even on tight tables. There is some variation, it is not 100%, but it is accurate enough for the majority of medium to hard shots even on tight tables to be virtually indispensible IMO.

Ignore that the CP between the CB and the Cue is right on top of the line going through the CB that is parallel to the OB path line, that is just happen stance, it doesn't matter how much or what type of side spin you are using.

Also, the closer the CB is to the OB, the less speed has an effect and the slower you can shoot without adjusting your initial aim.

Jaden

 

[Cornerman]

How PPA (Pivot Point Aiming) works and how to find the correct initial aim line. .

Good illustration and information.

We've been discussing this method of squirt compensation for now... I think we're coming up on 20 years (Wow!). Is aiming and pivoting at the pivot point really new to people (especially those who have been on the internet forums for years)?

I don't want to sound like I'm bursting the proverbial bubble, but the term "Pivot Point Aiming" was used at least as early as 2005 (according to a very quick search on the internet). I'm sure someone called it that earlier, informally if nothing else. The rest of us called it Aim & Pivot, and the "Pivot" was at the cue stick's Pivot Point, as opposed to Backhand English which didn't ever specify a pivot point. For those of you who needed a history lesson.

Freddie <~~~ deja vu

 

[Jaden]

There is a difference though Fred.

Good illustration and information.

We've been discussing this method of squirt compensation for now... I think we're coming up on 20 years (Wow!). Is aiming and pivoting at the pivot point really new to people (especially those who have been on the internet forums for years)?

I don't want to sound like I'm bursting the proverbial bubble, but the term "Pivot Point Aiming" was used at least as early as 2005 (according to a very quick search on the internet). I'm sure someone called it that earlier, informally if nothing else. The rest of us called it Aim & Pivot, and the "Pivot" was at the cue stick's Pivot Point, as opposed to Backhand English which didn't ever specify a pivot point. For those of you who needed a history lesson.

Freddie <~~~ deja vu

This is a bit different though, because this is not specifying a method. It's not pivoting from a certain position, which would qualify as BHE, it's placing the PP on the original aim line.

It doesn't matter how you get the cue into that position, it's just about making sure that the pivot point is on that line.

This is important because regardless of what method a person uses (I know you already know this), whether it be feel, PE, BHE etc... the pivot point WILL be on the original aim line for the majority of shots(that are shot accurately).

EVERYONE who shoots ANY shot within the boundaries of PPA will have the pivot point of the cue on the original aim line.

Jaden

p.s. I really don't care whether I coined the term or not...LOL I just thought it was funny.

 

[Jaden]

I modified the illustration a bit.

I wanted to modify the illustration a bit to show that where you bridge doesn't matter.

Jaden

 

[Jaden]

Those who have learned by feel illustrate the pivot point with a successful shot.

Every time someone successfully completes a shot with side spin, they illustrate the cues pivot point. The more extreme the side spin, the more accurate the illustration of the pivot point.

The pivot point will be the part of the shaft on the original aim line when using side spin.

They don't have to be using BHE or any method of PPA for the PP to be on the original aim line.

A contention over this between me and PJ caused me to do the first video I ever did illustrating BHE.

Jaden

 

[Cornerman]

This is a bit different though, because this is not specifying a method. It's not pivoting from a certain position, which would qualify as BHE, it's placing the PP on the original aim line.

It doesn't matter how you get the cue into that position, it's just about making sure that the pivot point is on that line.

This is important because regardless of what method a person uses (I know you already know this), whether it be feel, PE, BHE etc... the pivot point WILL be on the original aim line for the majority of shots(that are shot accurately).

EVERYONE who shoots ANY shot within the boundaries of PPA will have the pivot point of the cue on the original aim line.

Jaden

p.s. I really don't care whether I coined the term or not...LOL I just thought it was funny.

I see what you're saying, but I also think it odd to separate the method with the result.

But, maybe your second illustration will hammer home the point (also 15+ year old point) that your bridge hand doesn't have to coincide with Pivot Point... as long as the cue stick's pivot pivot is the intersection between the original centerball aim line and the final english aim line, however you get it there.

That last sentence after the ellipses is in essence what you're saying.

Freddie

 

[mikefingers]

Really????

a "pivot" is a turning of the cue at a fixed point, so how do you pivot the cue when your bridge hand is either in front or behind the pivot point??? you can only pivot the cue at the point the cue touches your hand, not before or after that contact point.
The diagram you drew looks completely too complicated to understand. Try keeping it as simple as you can for better results!

 

[Cornerman]

a "pivot" is a turning of the cue at a fixed point, so how do you pivot the cue when your bridge hand is either in front or behind the pivot point??? !

Because you can move your bridge hand after you've pivoted. Or you can pivot in the air or whatever. '

In this case, what has been defined (for many years) as "the Pivot Point" is a specific point on a cue stick a certain distance from the tip. It is determined by the Aim & Pivot Method, as well as other methods. Knowing where the Pivot Point a cue stick is doesn't force you to actually bridge and pivot about that point. But, however you get it there, if you're shooting a non-swerve shot with english, then having that Pivot Point on the original center ball aim line as illustrated is going to be a good bet to adjust for squirt.

 

[Jaden]

You COULD turn it by moving both hands...

a "pivot" is a turning of the cue at a fixed point, so how do you pivot the cue when your bridge hand is either in front or behind the pivot point??? you can only pivot the cue at the point the cue touches your hand, not before or after that contact point.
The diagram you drew looks completely too complicated to understand. Try keeping it as simple as you can for better results!

You could turn it by changing both your bridge position AND the back hand.

The point is no matter WHAT method you use to get the cue on that line, that the place on the shaft known as the pivot point, discoverable as such, is on that initial aim line.

To better help you understand here are a few methods that utilize PPA to compensate for side spin.

1) BHE, back hand english.

This is the most commonly referred to method of PPA and consists of aiming center ball while bridging at the cues pivot point so that leaving the bridge in place and pivoting by shifting the back of the cue gives you a new stroke line for the cue where the tip of the cue contacts the CB at the desired place for the type of english that you desire.

2) Air pivot,

This is almost just like BHE, but instead of getting down into the shot and bridging from the pivot point, you look that the initial aim line while standing up and pivot rotate the cue in the air so that the pivot point is on the aim line and then get down into the shot on the new aim line.

3) pivot point placement

This is a little harder to visualize it can fall under the air pivot method depending on how you look at it. The point would be to make sure that as you look at the shot, the pivot point remains on the initial aimline. It doesn't matter how you ensure this, just that you do. You can do it standing up, as you get down on the shot, or after you get down on the shot.

Marking the pivot point makes using PPA of any type much easier.

When you can't bridge at the pivot point for using BHE (the easiest method) it helps to see the exact pivot point to ensure you keep it on the initial aimline as you move the cue and your bridge hand around.

Jaden

 

[the chicken]

Assuming your stroke is straight and consistent (where have I heard that before?) pick a problem shot and practice making it over and over until you get... The Feel For The Shot (TFFTS)! Have trouble making a shot while applying "difficult" english? Practice it until you get TFFTS.
Once you get TFFTS, you'll be able to change your so-called (sorry) pivot point at will from an inch to - wait for it - Infinity! Open bridge? Closed bridge? It doesn't matter once you have TFFTS.
There's just no substitute for not having TFFTS.
Don't believe me? Try this: Put the object ball an inch away from the edge of the pocket - any pocket. Put the cue ball six inches away from the object ball. Now, shoot. Set up the same shot and, before shooting, change your so-called pivot point. Did it make a difference? I don't think so. All other shots are the same.
By the way. Take a look at how the pros shoot and you'll notice that they all change their so-called pivot point with virtually every shot. Even Shane, his self, is consistent in this regard.
Shoot safe.
John

 

[Jaden]

I see why that illustration might be confusing...

a "pivot" is a turning of the cue at a fixed point, so how do you pivot the cue when your bridge hand is either in front or behind the pivot point??? you can only pivot the cue at the point the cue touches your hand, not before or after that contact point.
The diagram you drew looks completely too complicated to understand. Try keeping it as simple as you can for better results!

What the illustration says is that you can bridge anywhere as long as the PP is on the initial aim line. That isn't a comprehensive statement though.

This is only once you have the final line that you will be stroking on.

Once any pivoting is done, you can THEN use your bridge any where on the shaft you want as long as you maintain the new aim line.

Jaden

 

[Jaden]

O---k----

Assuming your stroke is straight and consistent (where have I heard that before?) pick a problem shot and practice making it over and over until you get... The Feel For The Shot (TFFTS)! Have trouble making a shot while applying "difficult" english? Practice it until you get TFFTS.
Once you get TFFTS, you'll be able to change your so-called (sorry) pivot point at will from an inch to - wait for it - Infinity! Open bridge? Closed bridge? It doesn't matter once you have TFFTS.
There's just no substitute for not having TFFTS.
Don't believe me? Try this: Put the object ball an inch away from the edge of the pocket - any pocket. Put the cue ball six inches away from the object ball. Now, shoot. Set up the same shot and, before shooting, change your so-called pivot point. Did it make a difference? I don't think so. All other shots are the same.
By the way. Take a look at how the pros shoot and you'll notice that they all change their so-called pivot point with virtually every shot. Even Shane, his self, is consistent in this regard.
Shoot safe.
John

Sorry but you're wrong....

Jaden

 

[Jaden]

It's amazing to me that people still try to fight knowledge...

Alright, it's time to address those people who prescribe feel and feel alone...

Here's the biggest problem with playing by feel alone.....

Wait for it.....

What do you do when it fails????????

I'll tell you what you do, you get frustrated and pissed off and then it gets worse.

Then you take two weeks or 6 months off of the game and you come back and don't have THAT problem any more but you have to play for 6 months to get back to how you were playing before.

I KNOW THIS FROM EXPERIENCE.....

I was a feel player entirely. I was a great player as a feel player, but I couldn't purposefully play at the speed I was capable of.

It's taken 13 or 14 years and a LOT of practice and self discovery to get to the point that I can play purposefully at my speed.

I'm not quite there in pressure situations but that's been improving.

To put what my ability is into perspective, at the USBTC, I BNR 50% of the games I broke in tenball and practicing at nineball (I didn't play in the nineball) I beat the nineball BNR ghost 7-3 the only time I kept track.

On a ninefoot table, I play close to the same.

I don't mind letting people use my experience and knowledge to not have to take as long and or to not have to have as much natural talent, but when someone comes on in a thread like this and tries to discourage people from learning, it gets my goat.

Feel is NOT the be all end all for the VAST majority of players, amateur OR pro.

In fact, it is so limiting even for those who have natural talent, that I discourage ANYONE from relying only on feel, even if they are world champions.

Get ALL of the knowledge you possibly can, then choose whether to use it or not, or determine whether it will work for you or not. You can ALWAYS go back to playing by feel if that's what you choose to do, you can't get back the time you wasted NOT learning methods and determining whether they work for you or not though and that time will be wasted.

Enough of my rant for now.

Jaden

p.s. If it's over your head or you don't understand it, ask questions until you do or ignore it, but don't discourage others from learning.

 

[Jodacus]

It's a tool.

What I failed to understand from the beginning
was the method for determining the pivot point
was so different than using the pivot point in play.

The pivot point is like a good stroke. It is a tool
that can be learned and improved upon to
improve play. It is not the do all to end all.

Joe

 

[Cornerman]

What I failed to understand from the beginning
was the method for determining the pivot point
was so different than using the pivot point in play.

How did you determine your pivot point? How do you use it differently in play?

The Aim & Pivot Method to determine your cue stick's pivot point is pretty much how I use it in play.