played a whole team of 6s

I guess the point is like other people are saying people are what they are. Some people sandbag and some people are just very inconsistent. If you are really that worried about sandbagging and are interested in more than a social league find a league without handicap and play there.

I agree 100%. APA League is for a bunch of new pool players and amateurs getting into the game. It supposed to be a fun night not. Nothing too serious.

I just finished my very first season of APA League and had a lot of fun. I would have never thought I would ever play in an APA League because I don't drink so I don't go to bars or play on bar tables, and friends I have left that still play pool don't really want to play in bars either. But, my cousins wife needed players so I played. I go into every match just wanting to have fun and play my own personal best. I don't care if I win or loose and I don't care who I play. Just being out playing pool is good enough for me.
 
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The exception to a 'fun night out' are the "serious" teams that sandbag and are in the APA with a mission to make it to Vegas, willing to trample on everyone else's fun along the way and do whatever it takes, legal, illegal, ethical, unethical, sportsman or unsportsmanlike. Many have the same traits. Abusers of the rules, while at the same time, they are fanatical sticklers for the rules against your team. They gear up for league night with a "killer" type of mindset. Nothing wrong with competitiveness, but this is a whole other level. Because part of this competitiveness and desire to win leads to highly anti-social behavior such as never talking to the other team all the way to hostility in various forms and a general atmosphere of tension and animosity. Their team is less of a team, and is very clannish.

This is a major turn off, and not even for all those reasons listed above, but due to the extra injury and insult of realizing that such people and teams exist in an amateur fun league like the APA. You look at what the APA is, and then to think there are people that fanatical in such a banger/newbie environment is just pathetic.

Be competitive and improve. No doubt. But such behavior seems so misplaced to me. For example, before I would ever get that way, I would first seek out higher level more competition focused environments. In other words, I wouldn't put in so much effort, energy, time and that kind of mindset just for the APA. I would never do anything unethical or sleazy ever, but to kick it up to that type of level and determination to win would require there be bigger rewards. "A fun night out" is lost on many in the APA.

It's the equivalent of 8 year olds doing steroids to get an edge in the quest for superiority and dominance during dodgeball games at recess.


I think there's another factor in play here. The APA has too many underachievers. Winning and succeeding in the APA, is to them a reflection of their own life. From my observations, I really honestly believe a lot of people base their self worth on their APA pool performance. They failed throughout life, they want to kick ass in the one thing they've clung to as an opportunity. When they win, they are on a euphoric high for a week, when they lose - you see an abnormal response. Disproportionate disappointment, misery, anger and frustration. Their emotional tie to the league, positive or negative outcome, is unhealthy and abnormal. This kind of thing is the motivation for the killer/hostile hypercompetitive nature some teams bring to a night.

I've seen some people derive an excessive amount of gratification and elation from winning or coming in first, it just seems to me like they are making up for something, compensating if you will. Again, I'm not talking normal joy people have from winning, or team successes. I'm discussing those nutjobs and those teams composed of nutjobs that plague and infest the APA and ruin it for others.


Most know what I'm referring to. We've all seen those teams that no one wants to play or be around. These teams often self-destruct when things don't work out. Such as, failure in regionals. All the effort and it falls apart right before the goal is achieved. These nutjobs then, for the first time, truly realize it's a team format. Except, not from the perspective of accepting responsibility as part of a team, or accepting that is how team formats work and that over personalizing something that is team-based is wrong. No. None of that. Instead, it is rationalized as a way to blame a teammate or teammates. For they, in a team format, caused a personal failure for them. So they lash out. It was really a group of fanatics all of whom were in it for the purpose of satisfying or servicing their emotional and psychological problems. It becomes obvious at the lack of "team" when failure comes along. The lack of compassion and thought for others within their team. How selfish, self centered they are. A lot of "I" and "my" flying around. No regard for their own teammates who are also feeling the disappointment. Only anger and hatred because personal goals were, in their view, thwarted by others.


I choose not to be around such scumbags and nutjobs which is one of the various reasons I quit the APA. Unfortunately, some here think I'm attributing this to everyone it the APA. Far from it. Don't flame me or jump on my nuts. I'm not bashing you, unless you feel I described you above. Anyway, these types are a minority. However, for me it's too much. I can't enjoy the 80% of decent people when 20% are as I described above. Life is too short to spend interacting with the losers and scumbags. It only takes a few bums to ruin a party. For some reason, likely the very amateur nature of the APA, it attracts and is a target of quite a few of those people. To them, it's a place where they think they can finally be dominant at something in life.


Well, that sums it up for this installation of my usual APA rants. I leave you folks with yet another attempt to define the APA in a short way....the APA is the manifestation of poorly adjusted children in a sandbox turned into intoxicated adults.
 
Leagues

I quit playing leagues. I haven't played in one in the past year. Quite frankly, I believe like someone else said that they are "social" outtings. I found that many of the teams on which I played lacked the passion and competitive spirit which I have for the game. I also did not like the way some bars would "stack" teams to dominate the league. Although, I did enjoy sticking it to their players when I did get to play them. I have opted instead to simply play friends who have the same passion as do I. I also play in every tournament I can make. I do gamble but no big action...maybe $50 sets at most. I think that you get what you sign up for with regards to leagues.
 
Same thing happened to my team in the APA 9 ball playoffs yesterday. The other team's *3*'s didn't just have nice smooth strokes, they were playing multi-rail position using english, using stun and draw hitting the rails in the right places, widening their lines to come into tight spots better. Run 3 balls in perfect line, come into the 4 shot with a perfect angle to oh! miss and freeze the cueball on the shortrail. The entire match was so out of line it was comical. Turns out I didn't really know what highway robbery was until I played in the APA.
 
Actually, I was an APA 7 for many years and know pretty much every decent player in the area. Since you are still an APA 4, I'll assume YOU are the one who doesn't know what a good player is.

James Thiel, Kevin Hogge, Shane Ross, Richie Francis, Rex allen, thats just a couple who are good six's. Now I will assume you dont know who plays in this area because to say that these six's are not good six's would be a false statement. But by seeing the hat on your pic, I would assume that you know the area and you just have a few screws loose. Yes I admit im a four, and although I am not a big bad 7 I admit that im not an idiot and know that there are some good players in southern ohio apa but everyone has thier opinions. To end this battle of words im sure those six's would not mind playing a good 7. assuming that you are a good 7
 
Same thing happened to my team in the APA 9 ball playoffs yesterday. The other team's *3*'s didn't just have nice smooth strokes, they were playing multi-rail position using english, using stun and draw hitting the rails in the right places, widening their lines to come into tight spots better. Run 3 balls in perfect line, come into the 4 shot with a perfect angle to oh! miss and freeze the cueball on the shortrail. The entire match was so out of line it was comical. Turns out I didn't really know what highway robbery was until I played in the APA.

I feel your pain. Same thing happen to us with the trip to Vegas on the line. Our team was up 41-39 in a very close match going into the 5 set. The other teams "5" beat our 5 with a ball count of 38-11, for a 18-2 score in 8 innings total. He was about to 20-0 our 5 because he was up 32-2 ball count with only 4 innings when I overheard his captain telling him to "slow down". After that he stared missing shots and leaving out guy hooked hard when he stepped to the table. After the match found out he was a new player this session and only played the required 10 matches and they kept his handicap down to a 4. Began the city tournament as a 4 but got bumped to a 5 after he destroyed an 8 19-1 in 9 innings the first round. Sad thing is that with him as a 5 they were right at 23 with the 23 rule and if this guy would have been his true skill level he wouldn't have been able to play and our 5 would have had to play their 4 the last match
 
So tell me, Ken4fun, do you cheat when you play? Since everybody does it? You're quite quick to judge me, sight unseen.

“Anything worth having is worth cheating for,” declared W.C. Fields.

Yes, I cheat. I also lie, and steal whenever possible.

And if you believe that no sandbagging is happening, you, my friend, are very naive.

Ken
 
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A challenge???

Babe I know these guys and before u go throwing their names or challenges around u better realize although they are all OUTSTANDING players there's always someone who is eiter better or plays for the cash better.. I mean like i said before I hate the APA and its drama and all these threads about how crappy it is proves my point... But I got a "buddy" who is a 7 and that would play any APA'er out there and almost guarantee in the end he gets the mulah.... but like i said just think before u go throwin names around... because although they may be the best in adams county there's a lot more counties in Ohio and alot of players out there.... So, enjoy ur time in Vegas if ur on their team and get over it! This league is for families (i know ive stated that previously) and friends who wanna get together, theres no money in this league never has been, never will be. There are too many greedy ppl out there who wanna get every birth they can get and not let their fellow bar players enjoy the city with them (thats directed to Moose Lodge Portsmouth Oh) and u can't get any better because u dont wanna up ur handicap bc then it hurts the team. Real pool players join the BCA or they dont play league at all and just gamble and hit balls at the pool hall. Everyone just get along!!! <3 muah!

James Thiel, Kevin Hogge, Shane Ross, Richie Francis, Rex allen, thats just a couple who are good six's. Now I will assume you dont know who plays in this area because to say that these six's are not good six's would be a false statement. But by seeing the hat on your pic, I would assume that you know the area and you just have a few screws loose. Yes I admit im a four, and although I am not a big bad 7 I admit that im not an idiot and know that there are some good players in southern ohio apa but everyone has thier opinions. To end this battle of words im sure those six's would not mind playing a good 7. assuming that you are a good 7
 
James Thiel, Kevin Hogge, Shane Ross, Richie Francis, Rex allen, thats just a couple who are good six's. Now I will assume you dont know who plays in this area because to say that these six's are not good six's would be a false statement. But by seeing the hat on your pic, I would assume that you know the area and you just have a few screws loose. Yes I admit im a four, and although I am not a big bad 7 I admit that im not an idiot and know that there are some good players in southern ohio apa but everyone has thier opinions. To end this battle of words im sure those six's would not mind playing a good 7. assuming that you are a good 7
@BigD i think you misunderstood gutshot. He said the vast majority of 5, 6, and 7 in southern ohio dont know how to play GOOD pool. and yes all the players you just named are in the minority of 6's that DO know how to play. For every one you just named there's atleast 4 others that have no clue.
 
all right fellas i have the best one yet. We got beat by one of the james gang teams, good team but also lucky. We were down 1 match and we threw up our best player for handicap, and they played a chubby kid with a glove, yes a fricken glove. He got so lucky and won he was down the whole match and got so lucky. My buddy wants to retire now after getting beat by a guy with a glove. I know there are some strong players that use gloves but in this case that wasnt it this kid couldnt beat any 4 down there.I think my buddy is on suicide watch i better keep an eye on hin lol
 
all right fellas i have the best one yet. We got beat by one of the james gang teams, good team but also lucky. We were down 1 match and we threw up our best player for handicap, and they played a chubby kid with a glove, yes a fricken glove. He got so lucky and won he was down the whole match and got so lucky. My buddy wants to retire now after getting beat by a guy with a glove. I know there are some strong players that use gloves but in this case that wasnt it this kid couldnt beat any 4 down there.I think my buddy is on suicide watch i better keep an eye on hin lol

Chubby guy with a glove. I think theres only one of them on that team. Whats up D. Its ur vegas buddy(last year). Good luck in Vegas. YOU got 2 chances. I just wish you wouldnt have lied(or hustled) to get to that point. And not u personally. We all know who was tellin the stories. This is all Im B@@@@@@ about. Good People. Great Players.
 
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Who started this thread?

I did. And if I would have not been Lied to by a few people I RESPECTED, I would not have. But I was betrayed, I feel and Im over it now. Im ready to play pool. Did you read that last part. PLAY POOL.
 
Obviously you don't know who I am, because I know most of those players better than you. Some of those mentioned I have been on a team with. And yes, they all can have my action even though I rarely play anymore. :)



James Thiel, Kevin Hogge, Shane Ross, Richie Francis, Rex allen, thats just a couple who are good six's. Now I will assume you dont know who plays in this area because to say that these six's are not good six's would be a false statement. But by seeing the hat on your pic, I would assume that you know the area and you just have a few screws loose. Yes I admit im a four, and although I am not a big bad 7 I admit that im not an idiot and know that there are some good players in southern ohio apa but everyone has thier opinions. To end this battle of words im sure those six's would not mind playing a good 7. assuming that you are a good 7
 
Lol

Rex Allen, I used to watch him in Westerns when I was a kid.

Do you APA'rs not get it? It is the handicap system or determining your handicap in the APA that is flawed.

The APA has the LEAST classifications of handicap of any league. That means more players being in the same handicap with a wider range of actual skill level which equals MORE sandbagging going on.

When I played APA (admittedly 20-22 years ago), I was a 6, two weeks after I started I went to a 7 (Which was the highest handicap at the time) and stayed there.

The APA, instead of redoing their handicap system completely, came out with 'crutch' rules to try to band-aid their problems they were having, i.e., the 23 rule for a team, and others.

I also played VNEA for over a decade, and I have also played BCA.

The best league was the BCA, and although I spotted very little sandbagging going on in the regular BCA league, there was absolutely none going on in the BCA advanced league. The BCA advanced league I played in had 5 member teams, and handicaps ran from 1 to 75. One game scored had 15 total points, and you played 5 games (hence 5 x 15 = 75 total points in a match). To qualify for the advanced league you had to have a BCA handicap of 40 or above. (which in APA language would mean 5's and above). Again, there was NO sandbagging in this league. Everyone played full out all the time, if you didn't, you got beat.

Yeah, some guys had bad nights sometimes, but everyone played to their ability. The BCA also had 4 member teams too, but the handicaps for those ran from 1-60 (4 x 15 = 60 total points in a match).

I never went to Nationals playing APA (don't know if they even had Nationals back then), but I did several times in the VNEA, and I did for the BCA.

Don't the Pool rooms in Southwest Ohio have inhouse leagues? That could be an alternate to playing in the APA.

Personally, I quit playing league 5 years ago (I am 62 now), and just play tournaments, and money sets now and then. My killer instinct has tapered off some, and I just play mostly to have fun and socialize some.
 
did not mean no disrespect just playin dont get hard!

superstroke I know who you are and yes that chubby kid got lucky as hell. Yes you got to hate that stupid glove but maybe he will be helpin you out in vegas someday....he owes ya one now man. ;) Bank junkie although i know there are more players in adams county and some dang good ones but ill always talk up the one's I know best. You also know I love the game, dont be a hater a league is a league. You know me i know you hehehehe,, you also know im the mouth from the south. Gutshot dont know if i know you or not good luck buddy lol. Reno you sandbagger I prolly did mis understand him, you 8/jk. Listen People just sturing it up and laughing at the desk its funny to see the madness in words. Almost good------lied and hustled? how about played and won. Just remember those players on that team are all my friends and people I really respect. So when they won, they won together. When they lost (which was'nt often) they lost together. Thats a team and thats what its all about so if you say one "lied and hustled" they all did, and they didnt do anything more than what some other teams are doing or have done. You were not lied to you were a sandbagger you liked it your team won but you got screwed by the system, dont blame the wrong people. Those people you did respect, I still do respect.
Good Luck to all in this game we all love so much. May we all win and lose some but after its all over have some fun.
 
Big D

Yo man!! lol I know and knew who u were after u posted the stuff wit all of our team names in it LOL!!! I just think that its funny that we are even sitting on here doing this (me included)... All in all its just who sandbags better.. and we all do APA for fun not for money, (also me included). If I wanna play for money i head to the city, i only play this APA BS bc i love being around my team mates and the other ppl in the bars and such that we play in.. I got some AWESOME teammates and cannot wait to go to vegas no matter how we do, I get to go wit some of the coolest people around and we're guaranteed to have fun! So there guys I'm done raggin on ya, the chick is retiring from this thread. I love all of u n's and am sad that there are hard feelings between those that used to be teammates.. :( But in the end I just wanna PLAY POOL like almostgood said earlier.. so lets get it boys and if u really wanna solve this crap lets go to the pool hall this weekend ;) xoxo Shell
 
Touche

:withstupid:I only joined azb because of this thread :D and in the same sense is the main reason i joined and still play apa, FRIENDS! I play BCA, tournament, and gamble for competition. I wouldn't be doing any of it if it wasn't for the friends i met through the apa first. I wouldn't be going to vegas this year if it wasn't for some of you guys :thumbup: And in all honesty even though i might not be playing with you guys in the teams i'll be rep'n in the mini's:D And showing my team support Cause i cant think of a better group of people to take this trip with.

I know almost everyone who posted as far as us locals go I knew who big d was when he posted our teams 6's and exspecially after the glove comment but i cant figure out who superstroke is, i figured it was shane giving d a hard time:confused:
 
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