Playing against handicap 8-ball

M

maxeypad2007

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So what are some strategies you guys use when playing a much weaker player for something like APA 8-ball.

I recently lost an APA match to a much weaker player by scratching on the 8 off the break and scratching on the 8 in game (terrible I know).

What kind of strategies do you use in that case? I've decided that next time i'm going with a much softer break and will try to drag the game out.

Any other ideas would be interesting to know.
 
Making the 8 on the break and scratching is just one of those things, man. You should do everything in your power to avoid getting upset about stuff like that. It will happen. Keep breaking in the manner that works best for YOU, as long as it does not consistently send the CB towards a pocket.

And as far as scratching on the break in a game, you probably just need to work on your position skills a bit more. Watch better players, and pay close attention to the patterns they play. Unless you an unusually gifted and/or smart player, it will take you a year or two to start picking up the reasons for why a player chooses one runout pattern over another.

When you play, don't aim for "zone" position... Try to get the CB to a specific spot on the table. Doing this will sharpen up your attention to detail when planning your way through the rack.

You need to develop the ability to know exactly where you need to get the CB in order to pocket an OB and get to a specific spot. Some 8 ball racks, you need to play position to with a ball's width of a certain spot.

It's a bit much maybe, to ask of you at your level, but one should strive for perfection.

Russ
 
I agree with Russ. Again Russ, it was great seein' ya at Derby City!

The only thing I would emphasize is play in control. Your a much better player and unfortunately, the only way to lose is to give it away, but sometimes, things happen.

The two things that happened you described would probably cost you the race no matter what level of player you were playing anyways.

Next time make 'em work for it! :D
 
Yeh, its one of those types of situations where no matter what you do it probably would have resulted in a loss.

The scratch was off of a ball coming off the stack and the scratch on the 8 was just bad cueball control.

perhaps i'm asking my question wrong. I know WHY I lost.

So here is it rephrased.

When in that crunch zone where you are playing someone who is handicapped much lower than you (ie a 7 against a 2 or 3) where even the tiniest mistake, such as losing on a "landmine" (8 scratch) what can I do to minimize the risks of those happening other than the typical play position well etc. Basically i'm looking for strategies to make it so that guy with the low handicap will have a harder chance of beating me on a mistake like the ones I described.

I'm thinking a softer break or perhaps fouling intentionally off the break
 
I will either go with a soft break because most lower skill level players don't play straight pool, and know how to do secondary break outs of clustered balls.
Or I will go with the 8 ball break, hitting the second ball will low english. If the 8 doesn't fall on the break, then the majority of balls go to one rail, then back, which creates a nice big cluster on one of the long rails.

Or you can power or cut break with the intent to run out, and if your spread doesn't look like a run out, then cover the pockets with your set of balls while hiding the cue ball and/or bumping your opponents balls onto rails and/or clustering them.

That is what I love about 8 ball, you can play offensively and defensively on 1 shot.

Like my reply in the other thread about the 8 ball layout, I'd leave the 4 and 6 for last, in case the run out falls apart.
 
okinawa77 said:
That is what I love about 8 ball, you can play offensively and defensively on 1 shot.
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stay away from the easy 8 ball runout thread LOL they will crucify you for that type of banger thinking :D :D :D :D
 
softshot said:
stay away from the easy 8 ball runout thread LOL they will crucify you for that type of banger thinking :D :D :D :D
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Soft- I do not believe that was being said in that thread. Parts of it definately got out of hand. I think the intention was that, given that layout, while playing safe or 2 way shots is not neccessary and actually may require you to be more precise, thus creating more opportunity to screw up. I have no idea of your skill level, you obviously know about safety play, so are not a beginner.
I know there was a time I may have taken more of your approach, but there came a time I just had to take that next step. I believe that given that layout with no clusters or obvious position issues, while also having "get out of jail balls", is a perfect opportunity to gain confidence with a run out.
Bottom line, even though this is probably not a qoute, I don't think people were harping on you for wanting to play safe in general, just in that layout or similar "low risk" runouts.
 
No mercy. Imagine you're playing the toughest guy on the planet. Play safe and never let him see his balls.

Then he'll get discouraged, whack a few to open the table and there ya go!

Jeff Livingston

PS He'll hate ya for it, talk bad about you to his teammates, etc. but again: NO MERCY!
 
Play the table, not the player or the race. Play one game at a time, never think (oh great I just scratched on the 8 and now it is a 4-1 race). I'm a weaker player, and yet I get the better of good players. They think if they make a mistake, I will let them get away with it.
 
Soft breaking is not allowed. The team manual states that you must break as hard as you can with control.

Opening the game with a cluster of balls doesn't assure you of anything.

What I would do is break at the head ball and take the risk of scratching on an 8 Ball break out of the equation. The other thing to do is reduce the amount of low percentage shots you might normally take or shots that require turning the cue ball loose. And of course play defense when there isn't a better option.

Sometimes you can do everything right and still lose a match. It's why we all play the game.
 
Bugz said:
Play the table, not the player or the race. Play one game at a time, never think (oh great I just scratched on the 8 and now it is a 4-1 race). I'm a weaker player, and yet I get the better of good players. They think if they make a mistake, I will let them get away with it.
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Absolutely right! Play the table!
 
Bugz said:
Play the table, not the player or the race. Play one game at a time, never think (oh great I just scratched on the 8 and now it is a 4-1 race). I'm a weaker player, and yet I get the better of good players. They think if they make a mistake, I will let them get away with it.
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I know I run a risk of going off on a tangent here....but couldn't let that pass... Having just finished the "Pleasures of small motions" for the second time (it takes a couple of reads to really grasp everything), I would say that the above given advise is exactly the wrong thing to do (the first part).

Ignoring the other player and his/her skill is something that you just simply can not do. And playing like the other player didn't exist closes out a whole world of options for you. It all comes to having the correct assessment of your own capabilities and then being able to assess the opponent. If you get these two right you will be automatically guided for the right choices.

If you are honest about your own skills and you're reading the opponents skills correctly, you know what to do automatically. Then it comes to a game of percentages. If you play really a weaker player, you'd notice what their weak points are and exploit them....long pots, cushion-scares, banks....

In 9ball this becomes quite quickly something easy to use. If you know that you're only able to run 5-6 balls on average per inning on a normal spread, then it is unrealistic to expect that you're going to run out every time. If your opponent is of the same level, perhaps it is a good idea to plan accordingly...pot a shot or two and when a really good option for a killer-safety presents itself, take it. Perhaps you have a 70% chance for making that 3ball but you have a 95% chance for lock-down safety.....take the safety...knowing that most likely you will get on the table again...with a good chance of a BIH. Then you only have 6balls to run and that is something within your 'normal capabilities'.

So....sorry to go off on a tangent here...just couldn't let that comment go by since I just read about adjusting your game based on your opponent, last night. I find it also a fascinating book I'd love to discuss with anyone...perhaps in a different thread though.

cheers,
Kimmo
 
APA LO said:
Soft breaking is not allowed. The team manual states that you must break as hard as you can with control.
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I wasn't aware of that and have never seen it enforced in my area. I was only aware that 4 balls (I think) have to contact a rail.

What is the purpose of the rule, is it to speed up play? Makes sense but there's no rule to prevent a player from playing 19 safeties and taking two 3 minute time-outs each game.
 
chefjeff said:
No mercy. Imagine you're playing the toughest guy on the planet. Play safe and never let him see his balls.

Then he'll get discouraged, whack a few to open the table and there ya go!

Jeff Livingston

PS He'll hate ya for it, talk bad about you to his teammates, etc. but again: NO MERCY!
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Exactly. I think thats the hardest thing some of my teammates have to learn. Its hard sometimes to play a much lower SL, and play your best. But this is really the main thing you can learn in such a league. If I have to play a lower handicap (4 or less), I do not expect to lose a single game, ever. Thats the attitude you have to go in with, and try your best to make it happen. Its alot easier to play your best if you are focusing on not losing a single game. Dont give away a single shot. Its a grind sometimes, but its a good exercise. Teams throw off on me all the time, so I had to get used to it. In 9ball Im an SL8, and had a team put an SL1 up against me. It must have been torture for her, and I felt bad afterwards, but Im not going to lay down, it was her teams choice to put her up.
 
Soft breaking hurts the stronger player

I play run-out 8-ball when I'm in stroke, and everyone in my league that I would call a "much weaker player" does not. Instead, the "much weaker players" rely on strategy, blocked pockets, and tied up balls to be able to give themselves a chance against a stronger player. If I were to soft break, that would nullify my advantage and play straight into their strengths.

So against a very weak player, on my break I bust the balls open as hard as I can, usually make one or two, and then attack my problem balls to get them out into the open. Sometimes I can break them out just right, and run out the rack. Other times when I miss (since I just don't break and run out all the time, sad as that makes me), the SL4 will consistently either dog a ball or fail to execute a safety, and I'm out. It's the exact opposite of what you'd want to do against a good player, but against a much weaker player, I win almost 100% of my racks of 8-ball.

The times I lose are when the balls are tied up enough that I can't get mine free during the course of the run, and it ends up coming down to just a few balls on the table. At that point, I will consistently either go for a break-out and mess it up so I have opened the balls up but I can't get out, or I will go for a safety which is very difficult due to the small number of balls on the table and miss by an inch and sell out.

So break really hard and get a good start on the runout, including the part where you move your balls that need moving. At that point, you win if you don't miss, and against a weak player, you also win if you do miss.

-Andrew
 
Play the table, not the player or the race.
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Cant agree with this either. I definitely play the player and the race. There is definitely such a thing as momentum, and I want to do my best to get it on my side. The goal I have in my head is to not only beat the person Im playing, but to make them never want to play me again. And sometimes this will affect my shot selection.

A perfect example was a 9ball match. I was up, and not letting my opponent see much. He was an SL6 I believe, he could shoot pretty decent. I eventually sewered (at an unreal angle) and gave him BIH on the 6. He ran to the 9, but didnt get good position, and decided to play a safety, putting the cue ball to the middle of the top rail, leaving the 9 at the middle of the bottom rail. In a lot of situations, I would play a safety back at him. But because I was already up in the race, and because I knew I had him rattled already, I played the long bank, and focused on making it as hard as I could. My thinking was, he was pretty happy with how this 'safety' turned out for him, he played a good shot. If I just stepped up and banked it in, it would crush him. It would rattle him even more, and if he got back to the table again, it would be with a lot less confidence, maybe some fear of missing. Its easy to finish someone off like that. Also because I was up in the race, if I didnt make the bank, it wouldnt have been the end of the world.
 
axejunkie said:
I wasn't aware of that and have never seen it enforced in my area. I was only aware that 4 balls (I think) have to contact a rail.

What is the purpose of the rule, is it to speed up play? Makes sense but there's no rule to prevent a player from playing 19 safeties and taking two 3 minute time-outs each game.
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IMO that rule is in place to prevent sandbagging. A soft break will naturally incur more innings, with more "what if I miss shots", not specifically defense.

As far as playing a weaker player, play your game, just don't make any stupid mistakes. The 8 on the break with a scratch is just dumb luck. But if I have a risky 8 ball, then I would rather play a lower percentage bank and at least get the ball near a pocket, then make them run out, than take a shot that is a higher percentage scratch shot. Especially if they have 6 or 7 balls on the table still, or if they have 2 or 3 trouble balls. The chances of a 2 or 3 running out on you is minimal. If I were playing a 6 or 7, I would do every thing I could to make that 8 ball and not scratch.
 
When playing a lower rated player, much has already been said.

Control the table... Do not make all of the easy balls, and leave yourself with the difficult balls last. You have to smartly free up your balls. And when the run-out shows itself, take it and finish it. When you do that, then your opponent becomes quite helpless, especially since he doesn't have the necessary skills to counter that.

In general, you want an open table. Since you're the better player, then when the run-out shows itself you are more likely to finish it, or at least recover by good defense, than your opponent is. So keep it open if he's not likely to run it out, and avoid any trap situations (i.e. killer defensive moves that your opponent can do).

Control the cue ball... You definitely want to remove the chances of losing by fluke. So slow down the CB, if it or any other balls has even a remote chance of getting near the 8 ball. This means you'll have to be very aware of where the 8 ball is. And definitely free up any problem balls near the 8 ball and definitely do it safely.

Balance is a key part too. Obviously you don't have to take a chance with high risk run-outs. When playing a higher rated player, sometimes you have to take that kind of risk, because he has a better chance of breaking out the trouble balls and fininshing the run-out. But, when playing a lower rated player, those high risk run-outs aren't so necessary. So you can slow down a bit and manage things much smarter. Here's where the balance comes in, because if you slow down too much, then you give the weaker player a legitimate chance to beat ya.

8 on the break is unnecessary. If you're already better than your opponent, then you have a high percentage of winning straight up. If you have a break that you use for 8 ball breaks, then now is not the time to use it. Hit the head ball straight on. You can hit it relatively hard, but you don't have to kill it.
 
maxeypad2007 said:
Yeh, its one of those types of situations where no matter what you do it probably would have resulted in a loss.

The scratch was off of a ball coming off the stack and the scratch on the 8 was just bad cueball control.

perhaps i'm asking my question wrong. I know WHY I lost.

So here is it rephrased.

When in that crunch zone where you are playing someone who is handicapped much lower than you (ie a 7 against a 2 or 3) where even the tiniest mistake, such as losing on a "landmine" (8 scratch) what can I do to minimize the risks of those happening other than the typical play position well etc. Basically i'm looking for strategies to make it so that guy with the low handicap will have a harder chance of beating me on a mistake like the ones I described.

I'm thinking a softer break or perhaps fouling intentionally off the break
Click to expand...


I hear ya.

I think the main two ways an SL3 can beat an SL5-6 in a game (excluding blind luck) are either big mistakes by the higher ranked player or better layout for the lower ranked player.

Depending on your opportunities, you can block pockets for your opponent. Sometimes you can cluster your opponent's balls up.

On your side, open up your problem balls as soon as possible. The ideal shot might be one that changes one of your clusters into a couple ducks that block your opponent's balls. One shot that has nothing to do with making a ball can completely turn around the layout.

Also, I think with lower ranked players, you have to be more ready to completely change plans in rather unpleasantly surprising ways. Always have a plan and just assume that you're going to have to start over with a new one each time it's your turn more so than normal.

Last, a lot of lower ranked players just lack confidence. Don't give them any reason to be more confident by getting visibly upset over anything in front of them.
 
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