Playpool.com 32-Player Chart Incorrect!!

B

Barbara

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For all of you out there that has downloaded Playpool.com's 32 DE chart for use, the chart is wrong. When you get to Round C, the losers go straight back and do not flip top right to bottom left and bottom right to top left as the chart depicts.

This is based on the premise that when a player sends another player to the left side of the chart and that player plays out the left side and the one on the right side of the chart gets knocked to the left side, the two players should not meet up again until 4th place. The 64-player chart is correct, not sure about the others.

Barbara
 
Barbara said:
For all of you out there that has downloaded Playpool.com's 32 DE chart for use, the chart is wrong. When you get to Round C, the losers go straight back and do not flip top right to bottom left and bottom right to top left as the chart depicts.

This is based on the premise that when a player sends another player to the left side of the chart and that player plays out the left side and the one on the right side of the chart gets knocked to the left side, the two players should not meet up again until 4th place. The 64-player chart is correct, not sure about the others.

Barbara
Click to expand...


Hey Barbara,

Are you sure? I'm looking at it now and it looks correct. Loser C2 is top. Loser C1 is bottom. That would eliminate any immediate redundancies.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
Hey Barbara,

Are you sure? I'm looking at it now and it looks correct. Loser C2 is top. Loser C1 is bottom. That would eliminate any immediate redundancies.
Click to expand...

Yeah Jude, I'm positive it's wrong. C1 should be on top and C2 should be on the bottom. Look at the D Round in the 64-player chart.

Barbara
 
Uhhh... I printed out the chart and I see what you are talking about. However, it doesn't matter if you switch the "C's" so that they go straight back, they could still play someone they had previously beaten. It doesn't make a difference what you do, occasionally, players will play again when you get that deep into a bracket.

In my opinion, they have done it correctly...

Actually, now that I look at it, the losers of B1 and B2 could have the opportunity to play someone they had already beaten (in the match right before the C people play in the loser's bracket.
 
Even number

rounds (2,4,6,8) flip top to bottom, and vica versa. Odd number rounds (1,3,5,7) go across FOR ALL DOUBLE ELIMINATION TOURNAMENTS.
 
The 64 player bracket is correct too...

Any way you slice it, there is going to be a chance that players re-play in the 5th and 6th place match.

Edit: Actually there is a possibility of a re-play in the 7th and 8th place match for the 64 person bracket... example: the loser of B1 could replay the guy he beat in the first round.
 
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Barbara said:
Yeah Jude, I'm positive it's wrong. C1 should be on top and C2 should be on the bottom. Look at the D Round in the 64-player chart.

Barbara
Click to expand...


I just reviewed the other charts and I noticed the patterns are different. In some instances, the rotation is forward, backward, forward. In others, it's forward, mixed, backward, forward. I agree with the other response that there's little one can do to avoid such circumstances once you get toward the end of the field (and in this instance, the C-level is very near the end).

There are "wrong" tournament patterns but I'm not sure if there's an agreed-upon "right". Obviously, there's a lot you can do. I've used this chart before and never gotten a complaint. You may want to ask playpool.com what their sources were when they created these files. Perhaps there is a mathematical logic that went into their creation (redudancy-probability?). Or perhaps this is merely their interpretation (which may likely be the case).
 
Barbara,

I've got a collection of 16, 32, 64 and 128 DE brackets from the internet over the years, and the 32 spot bracket has always had the C2 on the top part of the bracket.

Comparing different charts (16,32,64) can mislead the straight accross and 'bottom to top' or 'straight and flip' order of loss placement.

C2 is IMO right where it belongs.
 
So the consensus is that the 32DE chart on Playpool.com is correct?

Then that means the PH I just had an event with has incorrect charts.

Barbara
 
I noticed that very thing on a tournament I ran with their charts, when 2 players ran into each other again. It was decided that we would stick to the charts as printed.

Linda
 
Has anyone?

rackmsuckr said:
I noticed that very thing on a tournament I ran with their charts, when 2 players ran into each other again. It was decided that we would stick to the charts as printed.

Linda
Click to expand...

Ever 'verified' those charts on Playpool? with charts from somewhere else?
Do we even know where they came from to begin with? I know everyone that needs a chart gets them off of Playpool, but that doesn't necessarily
mean they are correct.

The logic does not run consistent up and down the ladder of charts, and I have a problem with that as would all computer people.

Playpool also does not have "The Pool Tournament Manager' download anymore that ran a 32 player tournament on a PC.
 
Snapshot9 said:
Ever 'verified' those charts on Playpool? with charts from somewhere else?
Do we even know where they came from to begin with? I know everyone that needs a chart gets them off of Playpool, but that doesn't necessarily
mean they are correct.

The logic does not run consistent up and down the ladder of charts, and I have a problem with that as would all computer people.

Playpool also does not have "The Pool Tournament Manager' download anymore that ran a 32 player tournament on a PC.
Click to expand...

I had a friend compare The Pool Tournament Manager with the Playpool brackets. Here is his reply:

The Pool Tournament Manager only has a 32 player board. It looks to me like it crosses over as correct as you can get. It is set up just like the playpool's 32 player DE chart. IMO it works as best as can be expected. I checked the discussion on AZB and think it can best be explained like this.

The reason the C round transfers top to bottom is so that you won't have to immediately play the person you just sent to the loser's side. You may have to play someone that you sent over in round A, but you won't have to play the person you sent over in round B (at least not right away).

I have looked at these charts over and over. IMO those from playpool are as fair as you can get.
 
Barbara said:
For all of you out there that has downloaded Playpool.com's 32 DE chart for use, the chart is wrong. When you get to Round C, the losers go straight back and do not flip top right to bottom left and bottom right to top left as the chart depicts.

This is based on the premise that when a player sends another player to the left side of the chart and that player plays out the left side and the one on the right side of the chart gets knocked to the left side, the two players should not meet up again until 4th place. The 64-player chart is correct, not sure about the others.

Barbara
Click to expand...

It looks right to me, Barbara. If the loser of C1 goes straight across, then s/he has the possibility of playing the same player in the 5th-6th spot that s/he just beat in the B-round of the winner's side. As you said, players should not be able to meet up again until the 4th spot. (Edit: Players can meet again in the 5th/6th spot, but after several rounds for the person in the loser's side)

The 64 field shoudn't compare to the 32 field because it's off by one power of 2. (there's one more level, not two more).

Fred
 
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Snapshot9 said:
Ever 'verified' those charts on Playpool? with charts from somewhere else?
Click to expand...


I've verified them in the past, but just like doing a bye chart, nothing is set in stone, as long as you follow some basic rules.

For example, the A group loser in the 32 DE can go just as shown, or A1 loser can go where the A4 loser is shown, A2 to the A3 loser, etc. As long as that entire block of losers :) go to an appropriate block.


Fred
 
Cornerman said:
It looks right to me, Barbara. If the loser of C1 goes straight across, then s/he has the possibility of playing the same player in the 5th-6th spot that s/he just beat in the B-round of the winner's side. As you said, players should not be able to meet up again until the 4th spot.

The 64 field shoudn't compare to the 32 field because it's off by one power of 2. (there's one more level, not two more).

Fred
Click to expand...

Okay, now I'm really confused.:confused: :confused: :confused:

Here's how this came into play. Morgan beat Ming at A3. Morgan then loses out to Caroline at C1 and gets placed in the 5th/6th column on the bottom of the chart. In the meantime, Ming is moving right along the left side of the chart and ends up at the 5th/6th column on the bottom side of the chart. Morgan notices this and asks why she has to play Ming again before 4th place. So we took out a Prime Time chart and discovered that the C Brackets go straight back, as does the D bracket on a 64- player chart. Apparently the McDermott Tour run by Bonnie has the same charts and Morgan questioned Bonnie about this too, but didn't have any charts laying around to back her up.

So which is right? Should the C Brackets go straight back or flip top to bottom and vice-versa.

Barbara~~~ready for a drink...
 
Barbara said:
Okay, now I'm really confused.:confused: :confused: :confused:

Here's how this came into play. Morgan beat Ming at A3. Morgan then loses out to Caroline at C1 and gets placed in the 5th/6th column on the bottom of the chart. In the meantime, Ming is moving right along the left side of the chart and ends up at the 5th/6th column on the bottom side of the chart. Morgan notices this and asks why she has to play Ming again before 4th place. So we took out a Prime Time chart and discovered that the C Brackets go straight back, as does the D bracket on a 64- player chart. Apparently the McDermott Tour run by Bonnie has the same charts and Morgan questioned Bonnie about this too, but didn't have any charts laying around to back her up.

So which is right? Should the C Brackets go straight back or flip top to bottom and vice-versa.

Barbara~~~ready for a drink...
Click to expand...

There isn't any guarantee that players will rematch at 4th place. The charts really only try to make the maximum separation between the time you'll play the person that put you in the loser's bracket.

For an example: lets suppose the charts are made up so C1 and C2 go straight across. And lets also suppose that Morgan and Ming play against each other in B2 instead of A3. And Morgan again beat Ming. Ming would go on the loser's side and only play 2 matches before she would again play Morgan if Morgan loses in C1. And this is still for 5th/6th and not 4th.

At least Ming got to play 4 matches on the loser's side before meeting up with Morgan again.

JohnA - Kent, WA
 
Johnahl said:
There isn't any guarantee that players will rematch at 4th place. The charts really only try to make the maximum separation between the time you'll play the person that put you in the loser's bracket.

For an example: lets suppose the charts are made up so C1 and C2 go straight across. And lets also suppose that Morgan and Ming play against each other in B2 instead of A3. And Morgan again beat Ming. Ming would go on the loser's side and only play 2 matches before she would again play Morgan if Morgan loses in C1. And this is still for 5th/6th and not 4th.

At least Ming got to play 4 matches on the loser's side before meeting up with Morgan again.

JohnA - Kent, WA
Click to expand...

So you're saying that the 32DE chart is correct, they flip top and bottom to the left side. Then that would make sense because there are only so many ways you can flip around in a short chart. Okay, is this true??

Barbara
 
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Barbara said:
Okay, now I'm really confused.:confused: :confused: :confused:


So which is right? Should the C Brackets go straight back or flip top to bottom and vice-versa.

Barbara~~~ready for a drink...
Click to expand...
The Playpool 32 DE is correct.

The earliest anyone can ever see each other is in the 5th-6th spot, which ends up being several rounds difference for the person in the loser's bracket.

My other example, had it been the other way, the two players could meet just a couple of rounds later in the middle of the tournament rather than the very end.

Fred
 
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