Please help Me Identify this Cue
- Thread starter shakin355
- Start date
You said the bumper has "APA" on it?
Is it possible somebody customized a JOSS as a trophy cue and in the process changed the bumper out? That would seem very possible. The problem with that is that it does not explain how it does not have a serial number unless they also changed the joint collar. Seems like a lot of extra work when they could just engrave the JOSS joint collar. Removing the JOSS identifying marks would seem to devalue the cue as well, so it's hard to believe somebody would do it.
Additionally, we have seen such trophy cues for sale that did have JOSS on them, they had serial numbers too. I do not recall if any of them looked like this one.
It's a nice cue, worth identifying. Being a trophy cue, it also has historical value.
I would start researching who was involved with the APA in 2002 and start contacting those people. Somebody knows the source of that cue.
Also, there is online info about tournaments and they may mention the trophy cues and who made them. I just started looking myself but breakfast is on the table so I'll get back to it later.
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Is it possible somebody customized a JOSS as a trophy cue and in the process changed the bumper out? That would seem very possible. The problem with that is that it does not explain how it does not have a serial number unless they also changed the joint collar. Seems like a lot of extra work when they could just engrave the JOSS joint collar. Removing the JOSS identifying marks would seem to devalue the cue as well, so it's hard to believe somebody would do it.
Additionally, we have seen such trophy cues for sale that did have JOSS on them, they had serial numbers too. I do not recall if any of them looked like this one.
It's a nice cue, worth identifying. Being a trophy cue, it also has historical value.
I would start researching who was involved with the APA in 2002 and start contacting those people. Somebody knows the source of that cue.
Also, there is online info about tournaments and they may mention the trophy cues and who made them. I just started looking myself but breakfast is on the table so I'll get back to it later.
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JOSS did make at least one trophy cue in 2002 for the The 27th Annual U S Open 9-Ball Championships. I am confident there were more.
There was one listed on Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...TQ:US:1123&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc#ht_500wt_1287
As you can see, it had the JOSS serial number.
Here is some info on the 2002 shootout....not hard to find, but it does not mention any cue or cues.
http://nsc.poolplayers.com/2002/9-ball_shootout.html
Other makers that use or used this bumper type include Layani, and Viking, and perhaps others.
There was one listed on Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...TQ:US:1123&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc#ht_500wt_1287
As you can see, it had the JOSS serial number.
Here is some info on the 2002 shootout....not hard to find, but it does not mention any cue or cues.
http://nsc.poolplayers.com/2002/9-ball_shootout.html
Other makers that use or used this bumper type include Layani, and Viking, and perhaps others.
thats deffinatly a joss.. at one time there was a cue building section on the joss website.. where you can design each detail from pre-existing selections.. right down to having the joint engraved... i bet this is what somebody did.. although i just looked on the joss website and that feature is now gone..
looks 100% like a joss to me..
chris
looks 100% like a joss to me..
chris
I felt the same way, but any cue JOSS made then had the serial number. If somebody ordered the cue from JOSS it would have had the number. So even if they changed the bumper it would still say JOSS on it. JOSS does not make unmarked cues.
It's clearly marked 2002, and any JOSS made then would have been marked. I don't think an unmarked JOSS has been made since 68 or 69. Some have had markings removed in refinishing or repair, but I highly doubt that is the case here. They started stamping serial numbers in all of them in 1998 I believe.
I just pulled a Viking bumper here in front of me that looks remarkably like that one.
It's clearly marked 2002, and any JOSS made then would have been marked. I don't think an unmarked JOSS has been made since 68 or 69. Some have had markings removed in refinishing or repair, but I highly doubt that is the case here. They started stamping serial numbers in all of them in 1998 I believe.
I just pulled a Viking bumper here in front of me that looks remarkably like that one.
Actually they did and do offer the 14 pin. Viking had a tremendous number of options including joint types.
I can't see the end of the pin though...so it's hard to say what it looks like.
Some pics of the pilot and pin might help. Joint face shots.
I don't have a 14 pin Viking to compare though.
Here is a comparison of the Viking bumper and the JOSS bumper. Same threads, tested and confirmed to be interchangeable in a highly technical procedure here at my desk.
Viking left, JOSS right:
That cue looks a lot like a JOSS...and the bumper is similar...but I don't think it is a JOSS. Other cues have used that bumper style. It shares threading with the weight bolt so any cue that uses that thread for the weight bolt could potentially use such a bumper as long as the threading extends to the end of the butt.
EDIT: I don't think JOSS was doing a short ferrule at that time either...assuming that is the original shaft, the ferrule does not look JOSS to me.
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I can't see the end of the pin though...so it's hard to say what it looks like.
Some pics of the pilot and pin might help. Joint face shots.
I don't have a 14 pin Viking to compare though.
Here is a comparison of the Viking bumper and the JOSS bumper. Same threads, tested and confirmed to be interchangeable in a highly technical procedure here at my desk.
Viking left, JOSS right:
That cue looks a lot like a JOSS...and the bumper is similar...but I don't think it is a JOSS. Other cues have used that bumper style. It shares threading with the weight bolt so any cue that uses that thread for the weight bolt could potentially use such a bumper as long as the threading extends to the end of the butt.
EDIT: I don't think JOSS was doing a short ferrule at that time either...assuming that is the original shaft, the ferrule does not look JOSS to me.
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Additional info/pics needed:
Pics of the joint faces, pilot, and pin.
Check for a weight bolt. It will likely be deep, you'll need a flashlight. If you can get a picture that would be great but difficult.
If the weight bolt is slotted it isn't a JOSS. I don't think it is a JOSS at this point, but if it is you want to find a hex keyed bolt. As far as I know none of the modern JOSS have slotted bolts.
If it is slotted it supports the idea of Viking, but it could still be another maker. In addition, Viking also uses hex bolts.
What I am getting at is that if it is slotted, it isn't a JOSS, at least not from that era.
JOSS weight bolt:
Viking can look the same, or be slotted.
Edit: Since weight bolts can be changed, none of this is absolute of course.
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Pics of the joint faces, pilot, and pin.
Check for a weight bolt. It will likely be deep, you'll need a flashlight. If you can get a picture that would be great but difficult.
If the weight bolt is slotted it isn't a JOSS. I don't think it is a JOSS at this point, but if it is you want to find a hex keyed bolt. As far as I know none of the modern JOSS have slotted bolts.
If it is slotted it supports the idea of Viking, but it could still be another maker. In addition, Viking also uses hex bolts.
What I am getting at is that if it is slotted, it isn't a JOSS, at least not from that era.
JOSS weight bolt:
Viking can look the same, or be slotted.
Edit: Since weight bolts can be changed, none of this is absolute of course.
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Falcon cues did use a bumper like this:
http://www.falconcues.com/producttypedetail.aspx?id=124
The one on the right is like the JOSS bumper. If you click on the link you can see a larger pic, huge really, by clicking on the image on the web page.
Right now I think there is a strong case for Falcon. The second guess would be Viking.
Until and unless there is more info on this I will rest my case on Falcon. If not Falcon then Viking.
I would contact those two companies.
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http://www.falconcues.com/producttypedetail.aspx?id=124
The one on the right is like the JOSS bumper. If you click on the link you can see a larger pic, huge really, by clicking on the image on the web page.
Right now I think there is a strong case for Falcon. The second guess would be Viking.
Until and unless there is more info on this I will rest my case on Falcon. If not Falcon then Viking.
I would contact those two companies.
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The pin sure looks JOSS.
The bolt sure looks JOSS.
The pilot generally does look JOSS but it looks chamfered on the inner part leading into the threads. My JOSS pilots are not chamfered like that. It's a subtle difference though.
Nobosy at the APA currently can help, but if you can find out who was with them in 2002 you might find a lead.
I would still contact Falcon to try to rule that in or out.
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The bolt sure looks JOSS.
The pilot generally does look JOSS but it looks chamfered on the inner part leading into the threads. My JOSS pilots are not chamfered like that. It's a subtle difference though.
Nobosy at the APA currently can help, but if you can find out who was with them in 2002 you might find a lead.
I would still contact Falcon to try to rule that in or out.
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thanks chopdoc
Thanks for everything and thanks for all the other replys aswell im thinking its a joss and i am awaiting a email back from falcon but since they changed owners that might be a dead end im not sure why dan janes would rule it out without seeing pics of it or anything i have seen alot of joss cues and owned a couple in the past i will get ahold of some of the sponsers at the tourney at the time a go from there thanks
Thanks for everything and thanks for all the other replys aswell im thinking its a joss and i am awaiting a email back from falcon but since they changed owners that might be a dead end im not sure why dan janes would rule it out without seeing pics of it or anything i have seen alot of joss cues and owned a couple in the past i will get ahold of some of the sponsers at the tourney at the time a go from there thanks