Please Help! Need advice for teaching beginners

randyg said:
Dear Mowem down: Where the heck does that statement stem from?????? Please try not to group all BCA Instructors together because it ain't so. Their's only one person I know that can play like Allison....Thanks...SPF=randyg
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You asked so Ill tell you.

The first lesson I took (for billiards) was from a guy known as "Sarge". We have become friends so I call him Ken, I hope you agree he knows a bit about the game. The one thing I didnt like about the lesson was, it was a group lesson and he was trying to change everybodys stroke to fit in the BCA guide lines. I stopped playing for some time and when I started again I noticed some things, so I called Ken, took another lesson and for some reason the way he came accross had changed, for the better if you ask me. It was more heres some things to think about, not this is how you have to play. Ive took lessons (gave a few when I played racquetball) in a few differnt games, and the first lesson I took on billiards, was at that time the only time I had scene someone be so ridged in their teaching, but because of the changes, I felt had been made I took more lessons from him, put a group lesson together, and just last Aug while in Vegas looked him up to have him work with my girlfriend.

It just so happens the next time I saw this behavior was during that same trip to Vegas. At the APA team nationals, I took the girlfriend to sit in the free question and answer room with a BCA guy, WOW that was somthing. Sorry if hes your friend but that was the most arrogant thing Ive ever witnessed in teaching. It was once again all about "you have to play like this". the comment was made about Johnny Archer having good (not perfect) mechanics, his reply to a room full of people "far from it". OK. And the part about "fixing" John Schmit was just as rich.

That brings us too last weekend, Im at the Golden Fleece watching the last day of the CSI qualifier, There is a BCA guy there pushing his school. Trust me when I tell you he is doing BCA Instructors no favors. He was pissing people off left and right, you couldnt even go to the end of the room were his table was because he would not stop talking, about "let me fix your stroke", "you will never be a champion unless you play like this" One of the best players in Seatle was sitting there (we were trying to watch the football game) finaly, he looks at the guy and goes "can you run out". Somthing you might find strange, there was a group (about 8) people outside (3 are top 5 players from the area) voicing there dislike for the guy, and the fact that not everyone is going to play like Allison. I was the one that came to his rescue. Why, because I truly beleave, pool, more than most games is about knowledge. So I simply said "No its not all one way, just take what you can use and leave the rest. The riot was put down and we all went back and finished watchng the games.

I doubt these things makes my op ok in your eyes, but those are my experiences to date with BCA Instructors and I know Im not the only person that thinks the "if it isnt this way you'll never be anygood" is the wrong approach.

P.S. If they take my advice and get a group lesson from a BCA guy I'll gladly take a commission =)
 
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Mowem down said:
You asked so Ill tell you.

The first lesson I took (for billiards) was from a guy known as "Sarge". We have become friends so I call him Ken, I hope you agree he knows a bit about the game. The one thing I didnt like about the lesson was, it was a group lesson and he was trying to change everybodys stroke to fit in the BCA guide lines. I stopped playing for some time and when I started again I noticed some things, so I called Ken, took another lesson and for some reason the way he came accross had changed, for the better if you ask me. It was more heres some things to think about, not this is how you have to play. Ive took lessons (gave a few when I played racquetball) in a few differnt games, and the first lesson I took on billiards, was at that time the only time I had scene someone be so ridged in their teaching, but because of the changes, I felt had been made I took more lessons from him, put a group lesson together, and just last Aug while in Vegas looked him up to have him work with my girlfriend.

It just so happens the next time I saw this behavior was during that same trip to Vegas. At the APA team nationals, I took the girlfriend to sit in the free question and answer room with a BCA guy, WOW that was somthing. Sorry if hes your friend but that was the most arrogant thing Ive ever witnessed in teaching. It was once again all about "you have to play like this". the comment was made about Johnny Archer having good (not perfect) mechanics, his reply to a room full of people "far from it". OK. And the part about "fixing" John Schmit was just as rich.

That brings us too last weekend, Im at the Golden Fleece watching the last day of the CSI qualifier, There is a BCA guy there pushing his school. Trust me when I tell you he is doing BCA Instructors no favors. He was pissing people off left and right, you couldnt even go to the end of the room were his table was because he would not stop talking, about "let me fix your stroke", "you will never be a champion unless you play like this" One of the best players in Seatle was sitting there (we were trying to watch the football game) finaly, he looks at the guy and goes "can you run out". Somthing you might find strange, there was a group (about 8) people outside (3 are top 5 players from the area) voicing there dislike for the guy, and the fact that not everyone is going to play like Allison. I was the one that came to his rescue. Why, because I truly beleave, pool, more than most games is about knowledge. So I simply said "No its not all one way, just take what you can use and leave the rest. The riot was put down and we all went back and finished watchng the games.

I doubt these things makes my op ok in your eyes, but those are my experiences to date with BCA Instructors and I know Im not the only person that thinks the "if it isnt this way you'll never be anygood" is the wrong approach.

P.S. If they take my advice and get a group lesson from a BCA guy I'll gladly take a commission =)
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Thank you. Sure clears up a lot in my mind.

Yes, I know Ken very well and he is known as a good BCA Instructor.

Of course I have no idea who was at the APA Nationals but doubt if a BCA Instructor would be at the APA Nationals.

Here's my point. The BCA Instructor Program does not have a set guideline on teaching. Therefore all BCA Instructors are on their own. What they teach is their desicion. What you get from one Instructor another may disagree, that's the way it is. You can't group BCA Instructors under one heading. We have Great Instructors, good and very poor Instructors.

If what you state is true (I believe it is), the guy at the Golden Fleece is breaking the BCA Code of Conduct. Did you happen to get his name?

Thanks for the info.....SPF=randyg
 
Texas Prez said:
As a president at a Billiards club myself I think I can give you a few pointers:

1. Establish the rules...there are so many misconceptions and different "bar rules", make sure your new players don't get overwhelmed by variations to the game whether it be nine ball or eight ball

2. Don't overinstruct; I have seen that a lot of new players in our club who just want to play for fun and are not interested in perfecting the game. Early just lead by example... just shoot your game and do it as fundamentally correct as possible....let them ask questions and show that they are interested in learning...once you have that, instead of coaching right of the bat, introduce them to media and interenet outlets like this forum where they can go and read for themselves.

If you are starting a club, don't feel obligated to coach, just have fun and be avilable for those who are interested in learning...when those few are wanting more..then focus on their biggest deliquencies and help them to correct them...in the long run you'll see that the ones that want to get better will do so mostly on their own time...help them when they just don't get it.
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Right on --- if they don't enjoy it and have fun they won't be back. When they get into the game and want to really get better then it can be more serious sessions.
 
randyg said:
Thank you. Sure clears up a lot in my mind.

Yes, I know Ken very well and he is known as a good BCA Instructor.

Of course I have no idea who was at the APA Nationals but doubt if a BCA Instructor would be at the APA Nationals.

Here's my point. The BCA Instructor Program does not have a set guideline on teaching. Therefore all BCA Instructors are on their own. What they teach is their desicion. What you get from one Instructor another may disagree, that's the way it is. You can't group BCA Instructors under one heading. We have Great Instructors, good and very poor Instructors.

If what you state is true (I believe it is), the guy at the Golden Fleece is breaking the BCA Code of Conduct. Did you happen to get his name?

Thanks for the info.....SPF=randyg
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No I dont know his name, he was calling his class the "billiard university". I swear on my life, part of his speech was, he was going to change the way pool is played.

Their was a cue maker there (I didnt know him). He had this poor guy in the chair for 20 min easy, telling him this, and that, trying to strike a deal with him because he could send him X amount of customers (50 a year it was at one point) do to the fact pool cues are to short and people would need new ones. He wanted the cue maker to agree to put the letters B.U. on any of the cues made for his students. You can imagine what a custom cue maker thought of this idea.

A tidbit about Ken... He is a great teacher its to bad he cant make ends meet just teaching pool...
I truly do come on here to try to steal alittle knowledge, and when I see all the squabbling over aiming systems it bugs me to no end but one thing I always remember that makes me laugh when Im reading those threads is somthing simple Ken said to me, "If you keep missing a shot you better find a new way to aim it". I wish I would have known the value of his teachings way sooner, we would have spent more time together and theres no doubt I would have been alot better alot sooner.
 
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fun and simple

I strongly agree with those saying make it fun and simple. Also set up some set shots that everyone can make that look pretty impressive like the trick shot artists do for TV folks.

Give them just a little to start with, correct gross errors, and let the class sort itself out. You will soon see who wants to develop a serious pool game and who doesn't. Make sure that most of what you teach early on can be practiced using a fairly easy shot up to a fairly difficult shot. No fun for a student to be bored stiff if they have a little skill or to try to make a shot they can't make over and over either. Teaching a group is far tougher than teaching individuals when you want to do a good job of it. I have been a paid instructor a few times, not teaching pool though!

Hu
 
What I have found most effective is to focus on one or two fundamentals at a time. Whenever I have run through the entire gambit of, strance, grip, bridge, stroke, alignement, set up, pre-shot routine, chalking, aiming, position, they end up being more confused than anything.
 
Mowem down said:
No I dont know his name, he was calling his class the "billiard university". I swear on my life, part of his speech was, he was going to change the way pool is played.

Their was a cue maker there (I didnt know him). He had this poor guy in the chair for 20 min easy, telling him this, and that, trying to strike a deal with him because he could send him X amount of customers (50 a year it was at one point) do to the fact pool cues are to short and people would need new ones. He wanted the cue maker to agree to put the letters B.U. on any of the cues made for his students. You can imagine what a custom cue maker thought of this idea.

A tidbit about Ken... He is a great teacher its to bad he cant make ends meet just teaching pool...
I truly do come on here to try to steal alittle knowledge, and when I see all the squabbling over aiming systems it bugs me to no end but one thing I always remember that makes me laugh when Im reading those threads is somthing simple Ken said to me, "If you keep missing a shot you better find a new way to aim it". I wish I would have known the value of his teachings way sooner, we would have spent more time together and theres no doubt I would have been alot better alot sooner.
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I now know who you are refering to. I will deal with him quickly.
Yes, I like "Sarge" also. I also have got a good feeling about yourself. God Bless and have a great day........SPF=randyg
 
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