Please refund the money you owe!!

Chili Palmer

323
Gold Member
Silver Member
Unfortunately Mr. Summers I can't trust what you say anymore, actions speak louder than words...

Props for the effort, now it's in the OP's court.

OP posted while I typed.

If there wasn't an agreement before these text messages (and we don't know when the messages were sent) then the OP had no reason to start the thread.

At this point all there is to do is wait to see if the cue maker makes the payments and any other defamation of character is unwarranted.
 

BSummersCues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I messaged him today I will pay 1400 on the 15th of this month. And the rest on April 15th. He said wants it all at once so best I can do is April 15th 1 payment. I've never screwed anyone over and going to keep that pattern. I'm over orders and dont plan on dealing with many people just build what I want when I want. For you that dont know me I have been building 7 years and fullsplice is my specialty. Wrapless fullsplice with no inlays is my hobby. And I can do many splices that not too many people can just cant please everyone. Dont claim to be the best but I love the art of it. Thanks.
 

Type79

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I find it interesting that the OP has been offered -any- refund whatsoever. I've ordered my share of true custom cues and I am very aware of the process. I personally do not know of any custom cue makers who issue refunds on custom cues.

This is done for a reason. A cue designed or in this case seriously modified at the request of the customer, most often has an appeal only to that customer and therefore has diminished value on the open market. I found a picture of the cue which is the subject of this thread and quite frankly it bears little resemblance of the average cue built by this cue maker.

The OP not only was offered a refund but has now been given specific dates to which he responded with an insult which imo says a lot about this buyer.

This buyer is a prime example why many cue makers will not take orders and only build what they want when they want. They don't want customers breathing down their necks, calling or emailing daily or weekly, asking for adds and changes to the order, requesting pictures, and on and on.

There are too many custom cue buyers who are ignorant of what is involved in ordering and executing a custom cue order and for everyone's peace of mind should buy cues in the secondary market.
 

jokrswylde

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I find it interesting that the OP has been offered -any- refund whatsoever. I've ordered my share of true custom cues and I am very aware of the process. I personally do not know of any custom cue makers who issue refunds on custom cues.

This is done for a reason. A cue designed or in this case seriously modified at the request of the customer, most often has an appeal only to that customer and therefore has diminished value on the open market. I found a picture of the cue which is the subject of this thread and quite frankly it bears little resemblance of the average cue built by this cue maker.

The OP not only was offered a refund but has now been given specific dates to which he responded with an insult which imo says a lot about this buyer.

This buyer is a prime example why many cue makers will not take orders and only build what they want when they want. They don't want customers breathing down their necks, calling or emailing daily or weekly, asking for adds and changes to the order, requesting pictures, and on and on.

There are too many custom cue buyers who are ignorant of what is involved in ordering and executing a custom cue order and for everyone's peace of mind should buy cues in the secondary market.

I get the spirit of what you are saying, but you seriously don't see the problem with the cue as pictured. It matters not one iota that it isn't typical of the makers work. The maker contracted to build a cue to the specs of the customer for a certain price. The fact that he is being offered the refund, to me, shows that the maker agreed that the cue was not up to snuff.

The cue maker certainly sounds like he is trying to make it right. All of this could have been avoided with open communication on both sides and following the rule that a deal is not finalized (meaning, don't spend the customer's money) until both parties are happy.

What if the buyer had agreed to buy the cue, the maker ships the cue, and after receiving it the buyer tells him that he needed to wait a couple months before sending payment? That cue maker would be rightfully upset. To me, it is the same thing in reverse in this scenario.

I hope this is coming to a resolution that both sides can live with. Neither party here seems malicious to me, just an unfortunate transaction.
 

Chili Palmer

323
Gold Member
Silver Member
I get the spirit of what you are saying, but you seriously don't see the problem with the cue as pictured. It matters not one iota that it isn't typical of the makers work. The maker contracted to build a cue to the specs of the customer for a certain price. The fact that he is being offered the refund, to me, shows that the maker agreed that the cue was not up to snuff.

The cue maker certainly sounds like he is trying to make it right. All of this could have been avoided with open communication on both sides and following the rule that a deal is not finalized (meaning, don't spend the customer's money) until both parties are happy.

What if the buyer had agreed to buy the cue, the maker ships the cue, and after receiving it the buyer tells him that he needed to wait a couple months before sending payment? That cue maker would be rightfully upset. To me, it is the same thing in reverse in this scenario.

I hope this is coming to a resolution that both sides can live with. Neither party here seems malicious to me, just an unfortunate transaction.

Well said, looks like it's headed down the right track now.
 

Type79

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I get the spirit of what you are saying, but you seriously don't see the problem with the cue as pictured. It matters not one iota that it isn't typical of the makers work. The maker contracted to build a cue to the specs of the customer for a certain price. The fact that he is being offered the refund, to me, shows that the maker agreed that the cue was not up to snuff.

The cue maker certainly sounds like he is trying to make it right. All of this could have been avoided with open communication on both sides and following the rule that a deal is not finalized (meaning, don't spend the customer's money) until both parties are happy.

What if the buyer had agreed to buy the cue, the maker ships the cue, and after receiving it the buyer tells him that he needed to wait a couple months before sending payment? That cue maker would be rightfully upset. To me, it is the same thing in reverse in this scenario.

I hope this is coming to a resolution that both sides can live with. Neither party here seems malicious to me, just an unfortunate transaction.

The buyer asked the cue maker to correct the wrap and the finish. The cue maker agreed and the buyer shipped the cue back. Days later the buyer decided he wanted a refund instead.
 

BSummersCues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The buyer told me he wasnt happy with it. So I called him. Told him I would fix the problems. So he agreed... said he would ship out the next day. Then 4 days or so go by he decides he wanted a refund instead of taking a chance on not being satisfied again. So i said whatever ship the cue back I'll pay u when i can. Rest is history and he will be refunded. Was no need for this whole entire thread other than to stir shit. Some people dont have the luxury of having 2800 in there pocket to send on demand. Matter of fact before he even got the cue he told me he doesnt even like the cue just wanted a lower end cue just to see the work before he ordered another bigger cue. But honestly I dont want orders anyhow. Problem will be solved already have the cue fixed q new wrap and needed wet sanded and buffed out and all good.

I did not request full payment up front he said he doesnt like owing so he paid all up front
 

KAP1976

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The buyer told me he wasnt happy with it. So I called him. Told him I would fix the problems. So he agreed... said he would ship out the next day. Then 4 days or so go by he decides he wanted a refund instead of taking a chance on not being satisfied again. So i said whatever ship the cue back I'll pay u when i can. Rest is history and he will be refunded. Was no need for this whole entire thread other than to stir shit. Some people dont have the luxury of having 2800 in there pocket to send on demand. Matter of fact before he even got the cue he told me he doesnt even like the cue just wanted a lower end cue just to see the work before he ordered another bigger cue. But honestly I dont want orders anyhow. Problem will be solved already have the cue fixed q new wrap and needed wet sanded and buffed out and all good.

I did not request full payment up front he said he doesnt like owing so he paid all up front

Get ready to be taken to task by all of the AZB 1-percenters now....:D
 

jokrswylde

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The buyer told me he wasnt happy with it. So I called him. Told him I would fix the problems. So he agreed... said he would ship out the next day. Then 4 days or so go by he decides he wanted a refund instead of taking a chance on not being satisfied again. So i said whatever ship the cue back I'll pay u when i can. Rest is history and he will be refunded. Was no need for this whole entire thread other than to stir shit. Some people dont have the luxury of having 2800 in there pocket to send on demand. Matter of fact before he even got the cue he told me he doesnt even like the cue just wanted a lower end cue just to see the work before he ordered another bigger cue. But honestly I dont want orders anyhow. Problem will be solved already have the cue fixed q new wrap and needed wet sanded and buffed out and all good.

I did not request full payment up front he said he doesnt like owing so he paid all up front

Lol. yall's idea of low end cue and mine are waaaaay different:thumbup: . Well if anything this thread got me interested in full splice cues. Good luck and God Bless!
 

Poolfiend

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The buyer told me he wasnt happy with it. So I called him. Told him I would fix the problems. So he agreed... said he would ship out the next day. Then 4 days or so go by he decides he wanted a refund instead of taking a chance on not being satisfied again. So i said whatever ship the cue back I'll pay u when i can. Rest is history and he will be refunded. Was no need for this whole entire thread other than to stir shit. Some people dont have the luxury of having 2800 in there pocket to send on demand. Matter of fact before he even got the cue he told me he doesnt even like the cue just wanted a lower end cue just to see the work before he ordered another bigger cue. But honestly I dont want orders anyhow. Problem will be solved already have the cue fixed q new wrap and needed wet sanded and buffed out and all good.

I did not request full payment up front he said he doesnt like owing so he paid all up front

If you knew it needed a new wrap, wet sanding, and buffed out, why did you send it out before those items were completed?
 

tonyboy59

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Don’t post anything until you have them together.. Thier are 2 sides to every story. He posted no facts except he feels he should get his money back.

Actually from what I've been told...there are three sides to every story: Your's, Their's and the Truth.
 

jimmyco

NRA4Life
Gold Member
Silver Member
If the OP paid by redit card, which I believe he mentioned, all he needs to do is dipute the charge, say both parties agreed to a return and refund and have the charge reversed.

No need to wait until 4/15/19.

Or all this B.S.
 

tonyboy59

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If you knew it needed a new wrap, wet sanding, and buffed out, why did you send it out before those items were completed?

Good point as I was wondering the same thing. I know cue makers that would never let things go out the door with those issues.
 

jviss

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If the OP paid by redit card, which I believe he mentioned, all he needs to do is dipute the charge, say both parties agreed to a return and refund and have the charge reversed.

No need to wait until 4/15/19.

Or all this B.S.

There is a time limit associated with chargebacks. The merchant can refund the purchase, but he must have the funds to do so, since, presumably, he has already collected the funds from the original transaction.

VISA is not going to refund the O.P. if they can't first collect the funds fro the merchant.
 

logical

Part of the Conspiracy
Silver Member
What business that has deposits in hand for anything it has in production can't come up with a refund immediately? There isn't a ton of material cost in a pool cue. When vendors I deal with start paying operating costs with my payments instead of paying for raw material to make the parts they owe me I assume they are in deep financial trouble and we need to take action.

Maybe being that anomaly that has a regular job and cash flow clouds my thinking but I'd be worried about ever seeing that money if it isn't available today.

Then again, I am not in the cue world as a builder or customer really si I guess we'll all just wait to see what happens.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

BSummersCues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Good point as I was wondering the same thing. I know cue makers that would never let things go out the door with those issues.
Well I really didnt care I was over dealing with the guy being questioned every other day from the beginning of the build. Believe me this is not his first fallen out with cuemaker. I've had a few different builders contact me that put up with same stuff. Then have to hear this at least once a week that his wife was on his ass when is the cue going to be done. He said he understood everything takes time but apparently she didnt and neither does he. I am very picky to details unless you pressure me to get something done without letting me do my thing with the hobby. My heart has to be into it because it is a passion not a career. Which is why I will no longer take on orders at all. I have a few left to do and these guys are great. They dont rush me or question me they tell me to take my time. Besides that I'm my own boss when it comes to building the cues. No one should be rushed when trying to do their best work on something they take pride in to deliver to someone to enjoy for the life of the cue. I might only build a couple cues a year from here out if that. Not because of this but I dont need to I have to want to. It's been a fun trade to learn and I really appreciate all the guys and gals that have followed my work through the few years. Thanks for supporting my work!
 

spartan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Interesting to see the people who will jump all over the OP for this. He buys a product, it does not meet his expectations, he wants a refund, refund is agreed to....but on the makers timeline.

Unless this return policy was discussed before the transaction, I can't imagine many people would be happy with a refund only when it is convenient for the seller. As I understand, the cue maker has 1. the original cue, 2. the buyer's money, and 3. the buyers jewelry. And folks on here are busting the OP's balls. Wow.

There is very little in common between an insurance company and a cuemaker. So little, I don't see how one can be measured against the other

Finally, voices of reason. A++
I was beginning to wonder what is going on here - Is there a “mafia vendors” cartel ganging up on the buyer?
Geez, I don’t fcuking care if OP buyer cannot write properly or told his story late. He is shouting all over place because he is angry and has not got his refund fast. He may sound crazy but he is not wrong. Why is vendor taking his sweet time to refund money on stuff that is not delivered? This is not a mega construction project where vendor needs 1000 approvals before refund can be released. Obviously, there should be heat on the vendor NOT the buyer in this case.
Another poster said earlier he will post about another vendor depending on this thread. I doubt he will now looking at how buyer gets treated.
 

raistlinsdragon

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well I really didnt care I was over dealing with the guy being questioned every other day from the beginning of the build. Believe me this is not his first fallen out with cuemaker. I've had a few different builders contact me that put up with same stuff. Then have to hear this at least once a week that his wife was on his ass when is the cue going to be done. He said he understood everything takes time but apparently she didnt and neither does he. I am very picky to details unless you pressure me to get something done without letting me do my thing with the hobby. My heart has to be into it because it is a passion not a career. Which is why I will no longer take on orders at all. I have a few left to do and these guys are great. They dont rush me or question me they tell me to take my time. Besides that I'm my own boss when it comes to building the cues. No one should be rushed when trying to do their best work on something they take pride in to deliver to someone to enjoy for the life of the cue. I might only build a couple cues a year from here out if that. Not because of this but I dont need to I have to want to. It's been a fun trade to learn and I really appreciate all the guys and gals that have followed my work through the few years. Thanks for supporting my work!
Brent You do nice work, why not just sell the cue and pay him off. And get this shit over.
 

Poolfiend

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well I really didnt care I was over dealing with the guy being questioned every other day from the beginning of the build. Believe me this is not his first fallen out with cuemaker. I've had a few different builders contact me that put up with same stuff. Then have to hear this at least once a week that his wife was on his ass when is the cue going to be done. He said he understood everything takes time but apparently she didnt and neither does he. I am very picky to details unless you pressure me to get something done without letting me do my thing with the hobby. My heart has to be into it because it is a passion not a career. Which is why I will no longer take on orders at all. I have a few left to do and these guys are great. They dont rush me or question me they tell me to take my time. Besides that I'm my own boss when it comes to building the cues. No one should be rushed when trying to do their best work on something they take pride in to deliver to someone to enjoy for the life of the cue. I might only build a couple cues a year from here out if that. Not because of this but I dont need to I have to want to. It's been a fun trade to learn and I really appreciate all the guys and gals that have followed my work through the few years. Thanks for supporting my work!

This response might be ok if you hadn't already been paid in full and agreed on an approximate timeframe for completing the cue. However, it now appears that you accepted full payment for the cue and you provided the purchaser with an expected completion date, which was way overdue. Then you shipped him a product that, by your own admission, was clearly unsatisfactory. The purchaser requested a refund, which you should have expected, and now you're asking him to be patient and wait 45 days to get his money back. If I was in the OP's position I would also have a hard time trusting you at this point.
 
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