Pocket hanger ruling?

[mikewhy]

Is there a generally accepted ruling on whether the balls are in play when they jam in the pocket but do not fall? The attached picture is a better description than I can write, but the gist is that the 5 and 7 balls wedged against the pocket liner and didn't fall. Are they made balls? Are they still in play? The game was 9-ball, but I'd like to know if and what the rules are for other games as well.

Thanks.

Mike.

 

[AF pool guy]

BLUF: Any ball that would fall if not for the other wedging ball is considered pocketed and should be dropped.

Long answer from WPA

3.33 JAWED BALLS
If two or more balls are locked between the jaws or sides of the pocket, with one or more suspended in air, the referee shall inspect the balls in position and follow this procedure: he shall visually (or physically if he desires) project each ball directly downward from its locked position; any ball that in his judgement would fall in the pocket if so moved directly downward is a pocketed ball, while any ball that would come to rest on the bed of the table is not pocketed. The balls are then placed according to the referee's assessment, and play continues according to specific game rules as if no locking or jawing of balls had occurred.


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[mikewhy]

Thank you so much for the fast and detailed response.

 

[Bob Jewett]

The wording has changed in the official rules, but not the result. The applicable sentence is:

A ball near the brink of a pocket partly supported by another ball is considered
pocketed if removal of the supporting ball would cause the ball to fall into the pocket.​

The WPA rules were revised extensively as of January 2008. There were some substantive changes at that time. The rules are available on the WPA website: https://wpapool.com/

 

[maha]

the better rule added would be, if any part of a ball in a pocket was touching on the horizontal surface of the table it isnt considered pocketed.

 

[Bob Jewett]

the better rule added would be, if any part of a ball in a pocket was touching on the horizontal surface of the table it isnt considered pocketed.

How can you tell whether a ball is touching the horizontal part of the bed when it's right at the edge and appears to be supported by balls already in the pocket?

 

[mikewhy]

the better rule added would be, if any part of a ball in a pocket was touching on the horizontal surface of the table it isnt considered pocketed.

As a practical matter, your version is of course also correct, but doesn't state the intent as clearly as the quoted rules.

On the table in question, a GC3, jawed balls are just discernably lower than balls sitting on the table surface. The lowest point of the ball is thus below the level surface of the table and so cannot be "touching on the horizontal surface of the table." I think it's fair to say that the radius of the ball is much larger than the micro radius of the lip of the pocket, and the wording "any part of the ball" is not needed and is possibly misleading as to intent. Jawed balls on my table are not on the playing surface. Period.

It probably isn't clear that I'm agreeing with you. A jawed ball can be considered pocketed if it can be shown to be lower than nearby balls sitting on the surface of the table. I suppose this could be measured accurately with a surface gauge... I happen to have one handy and nearby, but maybe not all refs will carry one.

 

[gregcantrall]

A simple device could be constructed to project a lazer light from above on the plumb line, to the center of the ball. Remove the ball. If the light is not on the bed it goes down.

Shoot better head straight to the patent office.

And yes it is good shit and I would share if you were here.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... And yes it is good shit and I would share if you were here.

Which is easy to say when we're not there.

Actually, laser interferometers are used for precise location measurement all the time from land surveying down to positioning microchips during fabrication. You should be able to measure the height of the ball relative to the table within a millionth of an inch. If it's less than 2.25 it must be in the pocket.

 

[jimmyco]

Something like this might work. Adjustable for cloth and ball variance.