Sounds exactly like mathematical error. Besides, the idea is to attain coherence to the the shot image. This is best done by shooting the shot - note the references - until the results are picture perfect. The work is the work not the discussible details.
Pocket More Thin Cut Shots
- Thread starter BC21
- Start date
Sounds exactly like mathematical error. Besides, the idea is to attain coherence to the the shot image. This is best done by shooting the shot - note the references - until the results are picture perfect. The work is the work not the discussible details.
I agree 100% with all of this.
The only reason I was showing details was to show how accurate each process must be in order for it to work successfully. I mean, the math defines the limitations for error. It doesn't matter if we are consciously aware of that, or if we are consciously trying to pinpoint an exact 0.5mm contact point or an exact ghostball or fractional aim line within 1mm. What matters is seeing, doing, learning, repeating. And the mind takes care of the details because it's capable of accurately fine-tuning those shot images, whether or not we realize that's what is happening.
I made a ghostball video to help newbies gather more visual information about shots by using a combination of contact point, ghostball, and fractional references. So I am certainly not bashing contact points or ghostballs. I'm just sharing information that I know has helped other players quickly reach a higher level of ball-pocketing skills. And I'm in favor of using all the tools you can gather.
In this video I use the ghostball to locate a fractional aim point. This point is a solid reference based on the diameter of the ball. Once you have the point, there is no tweaking. If your ghostball is accurate, the shot will go. The mind sees that fractional aim point and associates it with that shot image. After seeing enough shots, the mind gets pretty accurate at recognizing the aim line in reference to ball itself without having to reference any contact point or imagine any ghostball. It's just another learning process, and the end result is the same -- you simply know the shots when you see them.
NOTE: For my critic that can't seem to quit blowing up my email.... I used a ghostball estimation to arrive at this 5/8 aim. I did not use Poolology. The ball dragged its feet a little, so either my estimated ghostball was off a little or I simply didn't stroke the shot precisely. Oh, and the pockets are 4.125".
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Damn that's tight... Your personal table...?
BC21 said:
Yes. But the slate shelf is only 1" deep. I am going to extend it to 2" this fall when I recloth the table.
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My email critic has a few questions. I am no longer corresponding with this person privately. It is just too exhausting. But I think I should address his concerns/questions here in case others have the same questions.
Questioning the accuracy of this ghostball measuring method, the Critic states: Your method involves ferrule length & matching the length from tip to the end of the ferrule with a length of space from the tip to an imagined 90* line dropped down from the circumference of the ball.
No it doesn't. I specifically state how I am doing it, and nowhere do I say or use an imaginary 90° dropline from the fat edge of the ball. From several feet away, which is where one stands while holding the cue, I am matching the amount of cloth I see (distance from visible portion of cue tip to visible portion of ob) to the length (distance) of my ferrule. I also say it only works with a 1 inch ferrule. Please see the pics.
Questioning the accuracy of the fractional aim point, The Critic asks: Are you using a 13, 12.75 12.25 or 11.75mm ferrule?
Ferrule/tip diameter is insignificant for the vast majority of shots when using a ferrule/tip aiming method. For this particular shot in the video, using a 13mm shaft and aiming the way I describe for a 5/8 Poolology hit (outside edge of shaft/ferrule lined to ob edge), creates a 22.7° cut angle. Going to the other extreme.... using an 11.75mm shaft creates a 23.4° cut angle. That's a difference of 0.7°. For any ball with an open pocket (ob not too close to a cushion), the ball would have to be 90+ inches from the pocket for this 0.7° difference to be significant. If the ghostball estimate is accurate, and the stroke is accurate enough to send the ob toward the aim point, the ball will land in the pocket.
Here are 2 pics of the method used in my ghostball video. I matched the distance of the amount of cloth seen between the cue tip and the ob with the length of my ferrule. I snapped a pic from that perspective, then I carefully laid the cue down so it wouldn't move from this position, and snapped a pic from directly overhead. As stated in the video, with a 1 inch ferrule this ends up being a very accurate way to estimate where the ghostball center should be.
Questioning the accuracy of this ghostball measuring method, the Critic states: Your method involves ferrule length & matching the length from tip to the end of the ferrule with a length of space from the tip to an imagined 90* line dropped down from the circumference of the ball.
No it doesn't. I specifically state how I am doing it, and nowhere do I say or use an imaginary 90° dropline from the fat edge of the ball. From several feet away, which is where one stands while holding the cue, I am matching the amount of cloth I see (distance from visible portion of cue tip to visible portion of ob) to the length (distance) of my ferrule. I also say it only works with a 1 inch ferrule. Please see the pics.
Questioning the accuracy of the fractional aim point, The Critic asks: Are you using a 13, 12.75 12.25 or 11.75mm ferrule?
Ferrule/tip diameter is insignificant for the vast majority of shots when using a ferrule/tip aiming method. For this particular shot in the video, using a 13mm shaft and aiming the way I describe for a 5/8 Poolology hit (outside edge of shaft/ferrule lined to ob edge), creates a 22.7° cut angle. Going to the other extreme.... using an 11.75mm shaft creates a 23.4° cut angle. That's a difference of 0.7°. For any ball with an open pocket (ob not too close to a cushion), the ball would have to be 90+ inches from the pocket for this 0.7° difference to be significant. If the ghostball estimate is accurate, and the stroke is accurate enough to send the ob toward the aim point, the ball will land in the pocket.
Here are 2 pics of the method used in my ghostball video. I matched the distance of the amount of cloth seen between the cue tip and the ob with the length of my ferrule. I snapped a pic from that perspective, then I carefully laid the cue down so it wouldn't move from this position, and snapped a pic from directly overhead. As stated in the video, with a 1 inch ferrule this ends up being a very accurate way to estimate where the ghostball center should be.
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My obsessive email critic has brought up another concern. The critic says this ghostball estimation method is too subjective, that it won't work the same for a 5ft person as it will for someone who is is 6' 7". He is correct about it not working for the 6' 7" person.
I am 5' 10". It works perfect at my height. I just stood on two different step stools to make me well over 6' tall. Looks like it'll work fine for anyone no taller than 6' 3".
Also I sat on a stool and simulated being 5ft tall. Works great from there also. The reason why is because the shorter you are the shorter the ferrule looks. The taller you are the longer the ferrule looks.
Anyway, it works well for people who are between 5ft tall and 6ft 3in tall.
Try it for yourself.
I am 5' 10". It works perfect at my height. I just stood on two different step stools to make me well over 6' tall. Looks like it'll work fine for anyone no taller than 6' 3".
Also I sat on a stool and simulated being 5ft tall. Works great from there also. The reason why is because the shorter you are the shorter the ferrule looks. The taller you are the longer the ferrule looks.
Anyway, it works well for people who are between 5ft tall and 6ft 3in tall.
Try it for yourself.
Nice clear pics to tack on some CG (contact geometry) (what else?) captions.
The first shot FI, if you bisect the 1 ball as the cue lies, you have a clear view of the cut from the shooting position. Simply 'para-sect' the the cueball and match the reciprocals.
The first shot FI, if you bisect the 1 ball as the cue lies, you have a clear view of the cut from the shooting position. Simply 'para-sect' the the cueball and match the reciprocals.
For those interested in the math of using your cue to find the ghostball line, a little geometry shows why the ferrule length method works well for a wide range of player heights. There is room for error, quite a bit of tolerance for being off forward or backward with your ghostball estimate (too close or too far away from the ob).
For instance, on a straight in shot you just have to ensure the ghostball center is on the same line from the ob to the pocket. You could be off any amount (closer or farther from the ob) and it won't matter.
For cut shots you can be off by as much as 4mm for thick cuts between about 5 and 20 degrees. For cuts between 20 to 35 degrees you can only be off by about 2mm And for cuts thinner than that you can only be off by about 1mm or less. So thinner hits require much more accurate ghostball estimates.
Anyway, being able to estimate the ghostball within the tolerances mentioned above keeps the ob within about 1° of the intended shot line to the pocket.
However, for every 1mm that your estimate is off laterally (left or right of the perfect ghostball line), your aim line will cause about a 1° difference in cut angle. So keeping that tip planted in place while swinging the cue over to the cb is important.
The red triangle here shows the tolerance room for estimating the ghostball center. Dead center of the triangle would be a perfect ghostball location. Anywhere else in the red will cause the shot to be off a little, but no more than about 1°. If your estimated ghostball center ends up being outside of this tolerance (outside of the red triangle), the shot will be off by more than 1°.
And yet, as an engineer I just come along and say "The errors balance out and it's within margin of error" and shoot.
You mathematicians will still be looking at your abacus while I'm waiting for you to rack the next game.
And yet, as an engineer I just come along and say "The errors balance out and it's within margin of error" and shoot.
You mathematicians will still be looking at your abacus while I'm waiting for you to rack the next game.
I agree. I'm just sharing a way to arrive at a more accurate ghostball spot by using the ferrule length of a cue, a 1in ferrule that is. So I figured I should add some details to explain why or how it works.
I think the "objective" targets (ghost ball center, OB contact point, etc.) are really just more aiming references like fractions, etc., but closer to the final aim line. The precision our subconscious "computer" brings to the task far outweighs the precision of our conscious visualization of any reference, so I'm guessing that comparison is less important than how close the reference is to the final aim line (kinda like how low squirt helps).
pj
chgo
Yes....estimated ghostball, estimated cp, estimated fractional aim point...They're all just references that our mind uses to arrive at an aim line.
What I am showing is how accurate each of those references must be used in order to send the ob down the chosen path. It doesn't matter if this accuracy isn't a conscious process. It is still something that has to happen. And we consciously use these references to try to make it happen.
For contact points, every 0.5mm that you're off on estimating the exact cp, the ob's path to the pocket will be off by about 1°. For every 1mm that you're off on the exact ghostball spot or fractional aim point needed, the ob's path to the pocket will be off by about 1°.
There is an exception with ghostball as far as estimating exactly how far the ghostball spot is from the ob, when using the cue tip planted behind the ob and then swinging it overtop of the cb. For a 15° shot you can be 4mm off on that estimate gb to ob distance and it only affects the ob's path to the pocket by about 1°. That's pretty cool, and forgiving.
All three of these (contact points, ghostball, and fractional aim points) are interwoven and often get used together by many players on most shots, unless the player is using a parallel shift method from the pocket or from the contact point.
What you've described with using the contact point and overlapping it (equal-opposite overlaps) has a similar end result as a using a fractional aim point on the ob, but first you have to estimate the cp, then from there estimate the doubled distance, then visualize the overlap, then you look at where the cb line leads to on the ob, and that's the aim line. With fractional aiming there is only one estimation to make, and that estimation is the aim line.
What a lot of people get hung up on is thinking that fractional aim points are either quarters or eighths or sixteenths or someother equal division. Those are just references, though most of the time the shot will fall right on one of those references, and that's the only time they are considered aim points, at least for a quarter ball hit or thicker. For any cut shot that falls between the 1/8 fractional references, there are basically 7 aim points, each about 1mm apart and each affecting the ob path by about 1°.
I think players use all of these visual methods in one form or another for most shots. I am partial to fractional aiming now simply because most shots are easier for me to see from that perspective. But I still reference an estimated ghostball or estimated contact point on some shots, which gives me an aim line to the ob. From that line, I simply look where that line hits on the ob in reference to its diameter, spatially, and that's where I aim.
And of course this isn't something that consciously occurs on every shot. But for the purpose of describing the process, that's it.
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The ghost ball is a metaphor for impact position for the cue ball.
As a metaphor it only represents part of the context.
When we add a skidding rather than a rolling ball, throw changes the dynamic, but the ghost ball metaphor remains in the same place because of its character, a frozen position.
It acts as a consistent reference point from where to start, along with the center ball line to its center.
The ghost ball is a location, whereas the ball path can vary going to that location, changing its approach angle.
Beyond that rotations on both the vertical and horizontal plane change the interaction that occurs in the impact zone.
Fractional aiming is also metaphorical.
It relates to a 2D silhouette overlap rendering, abstracted to fractions, of the rendering, not the actual ball.
The ball path, complete with spin dynamics in play, can be modified consistently, by starting from the same reference.
That said too many players equate that ghost ball center ball line to the cue line.
With my low deflection shaft I ignore deflection when using about a 50% gearing english parallel offset.
And, that is a prime example of how the cue line can be different than the ghost ball line, with the cue ball path having primacy.
The resultant object ball path produces an end over end object ball roll on the ghost ball object ball centers.
However, Dr Dave recognized the need for pool evolution to move off the center ball line and his SAWS is an initial attempt to devise a System for Aiming With Side.
Calibrating both ball paths starting with the cue deflection and speed variables.
All of the first part of that instruction is about finding the ball path, not the cue line.
Cue lines can vary depending on the cue.
With that in mind, the subject here needs to be viewed as an academic exercise.
Many shots beyond novice level need to use english.
The demographic of players who can benefit most, fall into the advanced novice to advanced intermediate range.
The 3 aim lines in the pic are NOT parallel. All three lines are coming from the center of a cb 2ft away. The little red triangle shows how far off the ghostball center can be and still produce a shot angle within 1° of the perfect ghostball aim. I zoomed for the pic because I wanted to show the details. The cb got cropped out.
The middle line is the prefect ghostball line needed, coming from center cb. The two outside lines are coming from the same center cb to show that there is a +/- 1mm window (left or right of the perfect aim line).
That window defines the tolerance needed to keep the shot within about 1° of the the intended or needed shot angle.
This isn't something we consciously do or think about while playing. It's just an illustration of what has to occur in order for the estimated ghostball center to be accurate. And using your cue and ferrule as I show in the video can really help struggling players with estimating that ghostball spot more accurately.
The middle line is the prefect ghostball line needed, coming from center cb. The two outside lines are coming from the same center cb to show that there is a +/- 1mm window (left or right of the perfect aim line).
That window defines the tolerance needed to keep the shot within about 1° of the the intended or needed shot angle.
This isn't something we consciously do or think about while playing. It's just an illustration of what has to occur in order for the estimated ghostball center to be accurate. And using your cue and ferrule as I show in the video can really help struggling players with estimating that ghostball spot more accurately.
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