Pocketing-the-wining-ball-on-the-break rule

[Norrbacka]

I was watching this 9-ball match between Immonen and Chamat and in the end chamat pretty much robs the victory by a few golden breaks that pretty much left Immonen completly defenseless.

What I would like to see is, if you pot the 9-ball in a 9-ball game, the ball should be placed on the breaking spot and you should be awarded with a ball in hand.

I really hope they include something like that in the future for 8-ball, 9-ball or other rotation games. Only re-placing the win-ball is kind a lame. You should be rewarded with such a break, even if its luck involved. A free victory-frame is of course wrong, because of the thing happend to Immonen, but a ball-in-hand, that is cool justification.

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

The 8 on the break already doesn't count in 8 Ball, except perhaps on coin-ops in bars cuz what are you going to do? You have to feed the meter again anyway. So that's not an issue.

It seems more rack your own 9 Ball tournaments don't count the 9 in the foot corners.

 

[Bob Jewett]

I was watching this 9-ball match between Immonen and Chamat and in the end chamat pretty much robs the victory by a few golden breaks that pretty much left Immonen completly defenseless. ...

In the last four racks the nine went straight in twice, got a really strange kiss to go in once and was left as a hanger (from a kiss-out right at the pocket on the break shot) and was pocketed a couple of shots later when Chamat caromed the nine in from the one.

What was surprising was that the nine had motion towards the pocket on all four breaks. Usually with a tapped table (and I assume that's what they had), the nine moves hardly at all.

 

[PGHteacher]

The 8 on the break already doesn't count in 8 Ball, except perhaps on coin-ops in bars cuz what are you going to do? You have to feed the meter again anyway. So that's not an issue.It seems more rack your own 9 Ball tournaments don't count the 9 in the foot corners.

In TAP, APA (as far as I know), The West Penn Pool League and in most tournaments I have been in the 8/9 on the break is a win. Yes it is true that according to the BCA and the World Standardized Rules it is just a re-rack (in 8); but it is far from something that is relegated to bar-boxes, is it silly? IMHO yes it is; but this “$ ball on the break is a win” still is prevalent and I mean it is really the “more common” way of dealing with it in amateur pool, and pro pool still hasn’t come up with 9 not being for whatever reason. We have a long way to go.

 

[pt109]

If people don't like a fast-paced game, don't play 9-ball.
I like 9 or 10-ball either Texas Express or roll-out.
Instead of finding ways to slow it down and eliminate luck....
...why not play 1-pocket or straight pool?

In my opinion, 9-ball is fast and dangerous....
..if you want to be comfortable...don't play it.

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

In TAP, APA (as far as I know), The West Penn Pool League and in most tournaments I have been in the 8/9 on the break is a win. Yes it is true that according to the BCA and the World Standardized Rules it is just a re-rack (in 8); but it is far from something that is relegated to bar-boxes, is it silly? IMHO yes it is; but this “$ ball on the break is a win” still is prevalent and I mean it is really the “more common” way of dealing with it in amateur pool, and pro pool still hasn’t come up with 9 not being for whatever reason. We have a long way to go.

Yeah, I suppose I could have covered all the different league rules but the OP was in the context of a professional match so that was what I was responding to mainly. That's why I also didn't mention BCAPL rules even though I play in that league (which spots the 8, btw). Same for my comment about the 9 in the foot corners. Don't know if there is any league that plays with that rule, but it does get used in some professional events.:wink:

But as far as league rules go, there is a whole mess of things regarding rules that could use fixing. My understanding is that in at least one league you don't have to make the 9 to win in 9 Ball. That could probably be changed.

 

[cuenut]

I have heard that in some tournaments, if you pocket the money ball on a break in either of the head rail pockets, the ball spots. Not sure if the player gets ball in hand or not. I like that particularly in a rack your own format on bar boxes. Eliminates some of the rack antics.

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

I have heard that in some tournaments, if you pocket the money ball on a break in either of the head rail pockets, the ball spots. Not sure if the player gets ball in hand or not. I like that particularly in a rack your own format on bar boxes. Eliminates some of the rack antics.

Never heard of that rule. I've played in events where the foot corners don't count to avoid rack rigging to wire the $ ball straight into the corner, but I've never encountered where only the two head corners are excluded.

 

[PGHteacher]

If people don't like a fast-paced game, don't play 9-ball.
I like 9 or 10-ball either Texas Express or roll-out.
Instead of finding ways to slow it down and eliminate luck....
...why not play 1-pocket or straight pool?

In my opinion, 9-ball is fast and dangerous....
..if you want to be comfortable...don't play it.

I take it you mean that you are in favor of $ball on the break wins?.

 

[cuenut]

Never heard of that rule. I've played in events where the foot corners don't count to avoid rack rigging to wire the $ ball straight into the corner, but I've never encountered where only the two head corners are excluded.

I messed that one up! you are correct, it was the foot corners.

 

[terminal_288]

If people don't like a fast-paced game, don't play 9-ball.
I like 9 or 10-ball either Texas Express or roll-out.
Instead of finding ways to slow it down and eliminate luck....
...why not play 1-pocket or straight pool?

In my opinion, 9-ball is fast and dangerous....
..if you want to be comfortable...don't play it.

I couldn't agree more

 

[John Novak]

I dont know why people make such a big deal over 9 on the snap. the odds are 38 to 1 against making it on the break........Its just part of the game I think should kept in. Riggin the rack requires to leave the ball behind the 9 not frozen to the 9. So if you keep loser racks I dont see that happening....case closed

 

[Bob Jewett]

I dont know why people make such a big deal over 9 on the snap. the odds are 38 to 1 against making it on the break........Its just part of the game I think should kept in. Riggin the rack requires to leave the ball behind the 9 not frozen to the 9. So if you keep loser racks I dont see that happening....case closed

I think that if you watch the last four racks of the match posted above you may feel differently.

 

[seven_7days]

I think that if you watch the last four racks of the match posted above you may feel differently.

i'll bet Mika wouldn't complain if he were on the giving and not receiving end of that.

anyway,as long as slop counts then why the hell not?

 

[pt109]

I take it you mean that you are in favor of $ball on the break wins?.

Yep, I'm in favor of 9 or 10 0n the snap.
The video shown in this thread...I've won and lost that way....
...I can take it.
I see nothing wrong with a champion trembling 'cause an unknown is
at the table....9-ball was developed for speed and excitement.

In the days of the 'road', it was considered a 'short' game....like guys
playing gin till enough poker players showed up.

The big money in Detroit was bet at 1-pocket on a 9ft and snooker....
...and 1-pocket on a snooker table.

 

[Spantiznik]

Spotting the $Ball off a slop and losing the match doesn't bother me, one of those things that you need to talk with the other player first.

Having the option of having the $Ball back on the table just makes some games alittle longer.

If you are playing on a Coin-box, you could always ask for the key to open the window. Most places I've played are more then happy to do this. Just don't push it, if the place is really busy. Win off the break on a Coin-Box just makes the OP more money. ;-)

 

[pt109]

Spotting the $Ball off a slop and losing the match doesn't bother me, one of those things that you need to talk with the other player first.

Having the option of having the $Ball back on the table just makes some games alittle longer.

If you are playing on a Coin-box, you could always ask for the key to open the window. Most places I've played are more then happy to do this. Just don't push it, if the place is really busy. Win off the break on a Coin-Box just makes the OP more money. ;-)

My favorite way to play 8-ball for cash is 'last pocket'....
...kinda by-passes the 8 off the break problem.

 

[John Novak]

I think that if you watch the last four racks of the match posted above you may feel differently.

Bob I did watch the last 4 racks and like I said the ref wasnt making sure the 2 balls directly after the 9 was frozen to the 9. I ve has this happens to me many times in tourneys till Pat Fleming told me about making sure they were frozen......Since then when it was loser racks, the 9 never went directly to the pocket on me.........If the 9 gets kicked by another its just the luck of the game............

 

[Bob Jewett]

Bob I did watch the last 4 racks and like I said the ref wasnt making sure the 2 balls directly after the 9 was frozen to the 9. I ve has this happens to me many times in tourneys till Pat Fleming told me about making sure they were frozen......Since then when it was loser racks, the 9 never went directly to the pocket on me.........If the 9 gets kicked by another its just the luck of the game............

Well, OK, but given that the referee was doing what he was doing was the rule fair? Does it make for a good competition?

Some have commented that you have no problem with nine counts in a money match, but how about in a competition? If the rack is tight -- all the balls touching -- the wing ball goes in pretty much every time. And the nine does not move. Is it fair for the breaker to get some other kind of rack? As Joe Tucker (and others) pointed out a long time ago, we should move on to 10 ball as the break at nine ball is broken.

 

[pt109]

Well, OK, but given that the referee was doing what he was doing was the rule fair? Does it make for a good competition?

Some have commented that you have no problem with nine counts in a money match, but how about in a competition? If the rack is tight -- all the balls touching -- the wing ball goes in pretty much every time. And the nine does not move. Is it fair for the breaker to get some other kind of rack? As Joe Tucker (and others) pointed out a long time ago, we should move on to 10 ball as the break at nine ball is broken.

Good point on the racking....the best breaks I've ever made..the 9-ball
stayed in the diamond...and that's 7 balls and once 5 with 3 hangers.

And I've felt that 10-ball should be the game for a few years also...
...the players have gotten too good.
But I hate it being played call-shot..especially with the option.

I really enjoyed the 5x10's in Tunica.