Pockets/Gold Crown vs Diamond

Diamond is the clear winner in terms of buying a new table because you can actually CHOSE between two different pocket setups, because they will actually guarantee a particular pocket size and because they are happy to explain in great detail how and why their pockets are configured.

Go out and pay full retail for a Gold Crown IV from a Brunswick dealer (Which is also rather more than a Diamond) and I don't believe you will even get asked what size pocket you want.

Most of the other problems with GC pockets are due to the longevity of the table - They tend to get a lot of maintenance over their life spans and if this is not done well can ruin a perfectly good table. However conversely table mechanics like Ernesto have proved that it is also possible to take a GC and setup the pockets to very similar specs as a Diamond in terms of size and angle.
 
I would like to weigh in on the side of the Diamond Pro Pockets. I had the pleasure of owning two 9' Smart Tables with Pro Pockets in my establishment a few years ago, and after thousands of hours of them I can say that the pockets are tough (but not unreasonably so) and fair. You just can't be sloppy. With practice, I was soon able to perform pound shots down the rail with consistency, and shooting 100 table length stop shots a 1/3 inch from the rail was part of my regular practice routine. After playing on those for a while, when I went somewhere and played on the GC's it was lights out, baby!

Bottom line, the Diamond Pro Pockets reward the better player because they require accuracy and proper position play in order to get out consistenly.
 
AuntyDan said:
Diamond is the clear winner in terms of buying a new table because you can actually CHOSE between two different pocket setups, because they will actually guarantee a particular pocket size and because they are happy to explain in great detail how and why their pockets are configured.

Go out and pay full retail for a Gold Crown IV from a Brunswick dealer (Which is also rather more than a Diamond) and I don't believe you will even get asked what size pocket you want.

Most of the other problems with GC pockets are due to the longevity of the table - They tend to get a lot of maintenance over their life spans and if this is not done well can ruin a perfectly good table. However conversely table mechanics like Ernesto have proved that it is also possible to take a GC and setup the pockets to very similar specs as a Diamond in terms of size and angle.
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Both tables have their advantages, try moving a Diamond up three flights of stairs around corners into an apartment or store it out of the way, or try and put ten in a small back room. Anywho, when they went away from putting doweled slates the problems started. When they went away from barrel holed pocket irons (GC I ) it was the tipping of the quality slip. The GC I had orangish flint based slate that could be fixed whereas normal slat when broken shattered and needed replacement causing a whole new slate set. As for pocket cost, around $10 per pocket on a GC with two allen screws/allot of selection and simple. The GC's had ball boxes and counters, and the GC I & II formica still is intact almost fifty years later. So lets leave the GC alone for the "longevity" issue, but my real question is, WHY?

WHY, Is the facing on a Diamond pocket, smaller in height than the tables of the last 100 years or so. If you look at the belt line/wear line/hitting line on the facing of a Diamond you will notice there is not much facing "above" that line, therefore it has give, and when the ball strikes the facing hard it causes lift. It's like the facing now has a rail nose area that does some 'compression' (digs under the object ball). When a ball down the rail is hitting the facing at high speed it still will not pocket, thats wrong.
 
Island Drive said:
When a ball down the rail is hitting the facing at high speed it still will not pocket, thats wrong.
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Is this true on their new tables too, or just the older ones? I have only gotten to play on a Diamond a few times.

IIRC, Diamond changed their specs for the corner pocket facing angle by 1 degree, because of this phenomenon.
 
realkingcobra said:
Are you aware that Diamond and Gold Crown rails are the same 1 3/4" in thickness as well as "Tables of the last 100 years or so, with the exception of Olhousen rails."
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The rails may be the same but the face is smaller. Balls hitting the face of a corner pocket should accept a ball hit down a rail hard enough to allow the cue ball to travel 3 rails back down table.
 
Island Drive said:
The rails may be the same but the face is smaller. Balls hitting the face of a corner pocket should accept a ball hit down a rail hard enough to allow the cue ball to travel 3 rails back down table.
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Line up 4 balls in a frozen combination against the rail. Shoot the first ball of the combo into the corner pocket and judge the reaction. Then get back to me on this subject. If you want to judge a pockets ability to accept balls at a high rate of speed...then you have to first eliminate the counter effects of english.

Glen

Look, you can't compare the pocket making ability of balls between a GC and a Diamond unless the first have the exact same pocket openings...because if they don't...then what in the hell are you comparing? A catchers mit vs a first baseman's mit vs a pitcher's glove.
 
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Does anyone know a compelling reason why the corner pocket facings aren't totally parallel to each other? This would make them accept balls down the rail at any speed, as long as you hit the far facing, as opposed to the far point.

Why are they always a little bit V shaped? Is it because they'll rattle more balls and this makes the game tougher? I don't like playing on pockets that rattle balls. Is there any reason not to make my facings totally parallel when I get table some day?

-Andrew
 
Andrew Manning said:
Does anyone know a compelling reason why the corner pocket facings aren't totally parallel to each other? This would make them accept balls down the rail at any speed, as long as you hit the far facing, as opposed to the far point.

Why are they always a little bit V shaped? Is it because they'll rattle more balls and this makes the game tougher? I don't like playing on pockets that rattle balls. Is there any reason not to make my facings totally parallel when I get table some day?

-Andrew
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Bump to see if I can get any answers to my last question.

-Andrew
 
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