Points / Veneers: Customer being to picky?

be1163

be1163

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
When looking at points on a cue, including veneers within the points, I prefer/expect that all should be equal across the cue.

Not being a cue maker myself, I do not know if this is also expected during the build process by the maker or how hard it is to make happen.

I'm trying to determine, if I'm expecting too much or did I make a mistake in not being specific enough when providing specs for what I'm looking for? What would the expected options be to correct something like this if not discovered until after the essembly to handle and final pass?

I'm going to be deciding on and placing another order for a cue early 2024, want to make sure it will go smooth!
 
If you are being that picky over the points i would expect you to check out the builders work before you place an order. We don't need another "this cue maker screwed me tread" over points being .0001 off .
 
Zerksies said:
If you are being that picky over the points i would expect you to check out the builders work before you place an order. We don't need another "this cue maker screwed me tread" over points being .0001 off .
Click to expand...
Thanks for your .02! Now do you have any actual feedback that my post is looking for? Since I am trying to educate myself and to know if there is a 'standard' that should be expected for my next purchase?

- Is it expected when building cues that points & veneers should be equal?
- Is it difficult to make the veneers and points match up?
- As makers, how would you remedy such a situation?

There is no interest in 'bashing' or starting any 'conflicts', as like I stated in my original post, just trying to figure out if "I'm expecting too much"?

Thanks
 
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be1163 said:
Thanks for your .02! Now do you have any actual feedback that my post is looking for? Since I am trying to educate myself and to know if there is a 'standard' that should be expected for my next purchase?

- Is it expected when building cues that points & veneers should be equal?
- Is it difficult to make the veneers and points match up?
- As makers, how would you remedy such a situation?

There is no interest in 'bashing' or starting any 'conflicts', as like I stated in my original post "I'm expecting too much".

Thanks
Click to expand...
I think every one of us tries to make points match up as closely as we posibly can, but a cue is a handmade product, so if you are looking at a cue for hours with a magnifying glass, there might be things the naked eye don't see. Most of us use CNC machines now, that does help with uniformity in theory, but it's all down to the operator.
 
be1163 said:
When looking at points on a cue, including veneers within the points, I prefer/expect that all should be equal across the cue.

Not being a cue maker myself, I do not know if this is also expected during the build process by the maker or how hard it is to make happen.

I'm trying to determine, if I'm expecting too much or did I make a mistake in not being specific enough when providing specs for what I'm looking for? What would the expected options be to correct something like this if not discovered until after the essembly to handle and final pass?

I'm going to be deciding on and placing another order for a cue early 2024, want to make sure it will go smooth!
Click to expand...
Could you provide pics of the points and veneers that did not meet your expectations?
not looking for identification of who made the cue
just the points and veneers to see how “off” they are
 
be1163 said:
When looking at points on a cue, including veneers within the points, I prefer/expect that all should be equal across the cue.

Not being a cue maker myself, I do not know if this is also expected during the build process by the maker or how hard it is to make happen.

I'm trying to determine, if I'm expecting too much or did I make a mistake in not being specific enough when providing specs for what I'm looking for? What would the expected options be to correct something like this if not discovered until after the essembly to handle and final pass?

I'm going to be deciding on and placing another order for a cue early 2024, want to make sure it will go smooth!
Click to expand...
These threads can be tuff action and trying to answer for what has already been done by someone else.
I construct my Vee points the old way. On a lathe between centers using an index head for the amount of points chosen.
With that being said, the variables could be, veneer thickness. On cues with mitered veneers, the inner point could be effected by the way it actually fits into the veneer miter. After the Forearm is constructed, my points are even. To insure they stay that way, everything else, drilling, handle added, turning and sanding, MUST follow the same path of zero to stay that way. Even full splice constructions have to follow the path of zero to maintain even points.
Hope this helps a little.
 
Zerksies said:
If you are being that picky over the points i would expect you to check out the builders work before you place an order. We don't need another "this cue maker screwed me tread" over points being .0001 off .
Click to expand...
Thanks for your .02! Now do you have any actual feedback that my post is looking for? Since I am trying to educate myself and to know if there is a 'standard' that should be expected for my next purchase?

- Is it expected when building cues that points & veneers should be equal?
- Is it difficult to make the veneers and points match up?
- As makers, how would you remedy such a situation?

There is no interest in 'bashing' or starting any 'conflicts', as like I stated in my original post "I'm expecting too much".

Thanks
bbb said:
Could you provide pics of the points and veneers that did not meet your expectations?
not looking for identification of who made the cue
just the points and veneers to see how “off” they are
Click to expand...
I'm not going to post pics, which I know can make it tough for responders to provide feedback. I can say that the points and two out of three venners are almost bang on, which is what I asked for. The thing I'm trying to look past is where the 1st 'inside' veneers go into a point that is off and quite noticeable. Sharp and even points are very important to me, as its the first thing my eyes go to on any cue!
 
be1163, To specifically answer you original questions.... If the points are "V" groove points they are never going to be all perfectly the same length. CNC cut pocket inlayed points can be nearly perfectly cut to the same length. Again If they are "V" grove points It does take care, knowledge and experience to get them even close to equal
 
The options to correct uneven points are:
1. Build another cue.
2. Sand/scrape the point tips of the longest points to artificially shorten them to be more even with the others. By doing this you create an uneven surface/dip in the cue that can mostly be addressed during finishing. Is the appearance that everything went perfect during the build at the cost of a surface imperfection good enough for you?

If you expect perfection, you are expecting too much. The difficulty in getting points even varies by construction (half splice, half splice with veneers, full splice, full splice with veneers). There are a LOT of things that have to be perfect through the entire build for points to be "even". No spliced points are perfectly even if you look close enough using a machine and magnification. Every machining job has either stated or implied tolerances. Ask your cuemaker how close his points typically are after final turn before any artificial manipulation.

Your only expectation should be that the cuemaker does is absolute best each build to have the points end up even, if you tell him that is your priority. If you chose a cuemaker who is known for doing high quality work, who charges accordingly, and is known for having even points with the construction type you chose, it should work out for you.
 
be1163 said:
Thanks for your .02! Now do you have any actual feedback that my post is looking for? Since I am trying to educate myself and to know if there is a 'standard' that should be expected for my next purchase?

- Is it expected when building cues that points & veneers should be equal?
- Is it difficult to make the veneers and points match up?
- As makers, how would you remedy such a situation?

There is no interest in 'bashing' or starting any 'conflicts', as like I stated in my original post, just trying to figure out if "I'm expecting too much"?

Thanks
Click to expand...
You're being a D and these are questions you need to be asking your perspective builder by checking out thier quality of work. This is a handmade product and perfection is almost impossible to have. These are one of a kind items and any compotent builder will make anything to your specification. You already sound like one of these asses that start a shit storm and sound very difficult to work with.
 
Zerksies said:
You're being a D and these are questions you need to be asking your perspective builder by checking out thier quality of work. This is a handmade product and perfection is almost impossible to have. These are one of a kind items and any compotent builder will make anything to your specification. You already sound like one of these asses that start a shit storm and sound very difficult to work with.
Click to expand...
Hmmmm. Happy Monday.
Can we see some of your Cues you've made Please?
 
One of the most sought after cues are the old Titlists for converting or those that have already been converted and those points are rarely even but no one cares.
 
Zerksies said:
You're being a D and these are questions you need to be asking your perspective builder by checking out thier quality of work. This is a handmade product and perfection is almost impossible to have. These are one of a kind items and any compotent builder will make anything to your specification. You already sound like one of these asses that start a shit storm and sound very difficult to work with.
Click to expand...
It takes all kinds, doesn't it!
Have a good day!
 
I will chime in on this one even though it is against my better judgement to do so. Your expectations may be valid if that is what you want and a handful of people can pull off the type of work you want. So when I say a handful of people can pull it off that means you should not expect all inner points to be perfect if you are only paying several hundred dollars for the cue. If you are paying a few thousand for said cue then you are probably dealing with the level of cuemaker that might can hold every veneer change end even. Maybe, but even at that price not everyone can hold every veneer change perfect. Hundreds of us build the old school V groove points and only a few produce what you are looking for with real V groove points and like Mike has already said there are many variables like veneer thickness and such that can vary the final product. So unless you paid thousands of dollars for said cue I think you might be expecting too much for what you paid.
You might want to skip real V groove points on your next cue since you want everything perfectly even and go with the CNC type veneered points Ernie made famous that look like V Groove points. If done as good as Donald Bludworth did that type no one was able to tell the difference. But even then he was only one of a very few that produced perfectly sharp points with veneers that were flat bottom inlays. So even with the aid of CNC only a handful can pull off what you want.
 
cueman said:
I will chime in on this one even though it is against my better judgement to do so. Your expectations may be valid if that is what you want and a handful of people can pull off the type of work you want. So when I say a handful of people can pull it off that means you should not expect all inner points to be perfect if you are only paying several hundred dollars for the cue. If you are paying a few thousand for said cue then you are probably dealing with the level of cuemaker that might can hold every veneer change end even. Maybe, but even at that price not everyone can hold every veneer change perfect. Hundreds of us build the old school V groove points and only a few produce what you are looking for with real V groove points and like Mike has already said there are many variables like veneer thickness and such that can vary the final product. So unless you paid thousands of dollars for said cue I think you might be expecting too much for what you paid.
You might want to skip real V groove points on your next cue since you want everything perfectly even and go with the CNC type veneered points Ernie made famous that look like V Groove points. If done as good as Donald Bludworth did that type no one was able to tell the difference. But even then he was only one of a very few that produced perfectly sharp points with veneers that were flat bottom inlays. So even with the aid of CNC only a handful can pull off what you want.
Click to expand...
Thank you for providing feedback that actually has value.

My post was intended to gain insight, to see if what I was expecting was too much. As I didn't want to be unfair to the maker with my expectations and go back to them with something unrealistic.

Since posting my question, I have figured out how I will be moving forward with the cue. The thought now is, if the maker is willing to let it go out of their shop, then I truly hope they are proud of their work. If they are proud of it, then I will accept it and see if I can move past my concerns. Worst case, I will sell it and move on to the next!

As for my expectations, they are mainly based on knowing what I want and my current 'Dishaw'. I've had my 'Dishaw' for 17 years and am still proud to own it. The level of craftsmanship 'to me' is top notch and everything I wanted when I had it made and for the most part still today!

Thanks again for the feedback, its appreciated!
 
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