Pool Club Revolution!

[336Robin]

Viability

I think for this concept to have some kind of chance, there have to be ready venues available that match the demographic that you are trying to reach (or any venue at all for that matter). How many cities and towns have such a venue?

This is a lot of work. Who signs up to be the point-man?

Sounds like you got your work cut out for you, Robin!

Paul,
You've seen what been said about this concept so far. I think its good but that matters very little. You are a Room Owner.

What do you think? Would you consider doing something like this and under what conditions?

 

[jaetee]

Interesting Post Jaetee.
So instead of waiting for a National Organization to emerge....why cant we just get together and invite some people in to play Pool?

I really like what you're saying, and what you propose with the comment above would be a really good start. However, without some kind of organized competitive element involved, I don't think that will really develop to much more than a hang out session. IMHO, there really should be some competition based goals involved in order for the club concept to evolve and flourish.

Let me share some of what I experienced with the club I was part of in Germany... We had members who were "fun" players who were just learning the game, as well as novice, advanced and master level players. Our club was a safe, clean and respectful environment. And it was private. Some members were even kids, whom were signed up by their non-pool playing parents.

The club had four teams (Team A w/best players, B, C, D) which were playing at the local and regional levels. No team at our club was strong enough at the time to advance to the national level of play (pro-level) but we got to travel around northern Bavaria quite a bit, which was quite fun.

We would host regular in-house member-only tournaments, or the various teams would have organized practice days where the better players in the club were expected to schedule time to have training sessions with the younger, inexperienced players, and so on... It was actually a very communal atmosphere that made for a good learning environment. And it was a lot of FUN going to the pool club. We all had our own keys and could come and go as we pleased. Many a night I'd show up there at 2 or 3am after a night out and find people still there playing.

But... as we all know, competition is a huge part of the game. And you can really only derive so much fun playing the same people over and over again once you've reached a certain skill level, especially when there's nothing at stake. So, you can hit a motivational wall, so to speak. And that's where the element of club vs. club matches comes into play. It provides that "added purpose." A club member's first goal would be to get good enough to be on one of the teams, and the next goal would be to improve to move up to the next best team. The team lineups would change from season to season as players came and went, or others got better...

And when we had matches vs. other pool clubs, our teams would typically travel together to other clubs (or come to us if our turn to host) and we would match up vs. the opponents that played at the same league level for points. Smaller clubs may not have had as many members/players and would field fewer teams, in which case only the teams that were playing at that level would travel to that club.

Also, some of the larger clubs (like ours) had enough members and cashflow to maintain their own private location and smaller clubs would make table-time deals with a pool hall, which would generate added revenue for the room. On some weekends, you might have our A & C team going to play at one place, and the B & D team would stay and host other opponents. It was all organized and properly sanctioned, with good teams advancing up to next level at seasons end, and teams finishing at the bottom of the rankings dropping down to a lower level. That provided goals and "next level" competition.

I think the only requirement was that the location had to have 9' tables and I remember playing at locations where there were a few as two tables. Our club had four.

 

[336Robin]

Interesting and Right

I really like what you're saying, and what you propose with the comment above would be a really good start. However, without some kind of organized competitive element involved, I don't think that will really develop to much more than a hang out session. IMHO, there really should be some competition based goals involved in order for the club concept to evolve and flourish.

Let me share some of what I experienced with the club I was part of in Germany... We had members who were "fun" players who were just learning the game, as well as novice, advanced and master level players. Our club was a safe, clean and respectful environment. And it was private. Some members were even kids, whom were signed up by their non-pool playing parents.

The club had four teams (Team A w/best players, B, C, D) which were playing at the local and regional levels. No team at our club was strong enough at the time to advance to the national level of play (pro-level) but we got to travel around northern Bavaria quite a bit, which was quite fun.

We would host regular in-house member-only tournaments, or the various teams would have organized practice days where the better players in the club were expected to schedule time to have training sessions with the younger, inexperienced players, and so on... It was actually a very communal atmosphere that made for a good learning environment. And it was a lot of FUN going to the pool club. We all had our own keys and could come and go as we pleased. Many a night I'd show up there at 2 or 3am after a night out and find people still there playing.

But... as we all know, competition is a huge part of the game. And you can really only derive so much fun playing the same people over and over again once you've reached a certain skill level, especially when there's nothing at stake. So, you can hit a motivational wall, so to speak. And that's where the element of club vs. club matches comes into play. It provides that "added purpose." A club member's first goal would be to get good enough to be on one of the teams, and the next goal would be to improve to move up to the next best team. The team lineups would change from season to season as players came and went, or others got better...

And when we had matches vs. other pool clubs, our teams would typically travel together to other clubs (or come to us if our turn to host) and we would match up vs. the opponents that played at the same league level for points. Smaller clubs may not have had as many members/players and would field fewer teams, in which case only the teams that were playing at that level would travel to that club.

Also, some of the larger clubs (like ours) had enough members and cashflow to maintain their own private location and smaller clubs would make table-time deals with a pool hall, which would generate added revenue for the room. On some weekends, you might have our A & C team going to play at one place, and the B & D team would stay and host other opponents. It was all organized and properly sanctioned, with good teams advancing up to next level at seasons end, and teams finishing at the bottom of the rankings dropping down to a lower level. That provided goals and "next level" competition.

I think the only requirement was that the location had to have 9' tables and I remember playing at locations where there were a few as two tables. Our club had four.

Interesting Post Jaetee,
I think you are right and that is something that can be introduced on some level after the Pool Club is established. Even before then I see that there is going to need to be a pecking order established of who is who among the Pool Clubbers. A skill ladder and Round Robin Matchups should expose who the strong players are and everyone could be given a rating designation for future use in playing other clubs. Until that happens I like the idea of Pool Club Matchups from establishing Partner Games making sure that you match a good player with a weaker player. I would hope the Skill Ladder matchups would be something you could email the throng about when the matchups occurred and people would show up to watch the goings on. Of course the idea here is to increase people practicing on regular rented time and skill ladder matchups might fall into that category saving Pool Club for practice, instruction and for Fun.

Great Post lots of good stuff in that I have no idea about. Thank you.

 

[Paul Schofield]

Paul,
You've seen what been said about this concept so far. I think its good but that matters very little. You are a Room Owner.

What do you think? Would you consider doing something like this and under what conditions?

I already do work with a couple of clubs (one being a high school club). I am always willing to work with anybody or any organization that is interested in the game. I do not make it difficult.

I am not a soothsayer. I cannot predict what unproven innovative ideas are going to work. That being said, I make it a practice not to dampen or heighten enthusiasm with prognostications. Throw your heart and soul into what you believe. What do I know?

 

[336Robin]

Understood and Thank You.

I already do work with a couple of clubs (one being a high school club). I am always willing to work with anybody or any organization that is interested in the game. I do not make it difficult.

I am not a soothsayer. I cannot predict what unproven innovative ideas are going to work. That being said, I make it a practice not to dampen or heighten enthusiasm with prognostications. Throw your heart and soul into what you believe. What do I know?

Paul,
I appreciate your comment and your willingness to work with local High School Programs and I appreciate you not making things difficult. I retire pretty soon depending on a few factors possibly by around the end of the first week in October so I will have more time to work on this.

I see the concept pretty simple with some very important tweakable parts. What I intend to do with it is to put it in a book form that lays out a plan. I was talking to a former Room Owner here Macguy and he told me how even in the face of a temporary loss of his alcohol license he used Personal Advertising Means to double his business.
The methods he used none of which were expensive or required a lot of a person. Hearing what he did made not only a lot of sense to me but it opened the whole idea of Personal Inititatives to create Markets within a Population that is constantly bombarded with choices for Recreational Activity. ===Invitations to come Play==== you have to grab a persons attention. Some free organized pool might be the method if its made Fun, hence the Pool Club Concept.

There are a lot of things competing for peoples attention and unless Pool recruits with its Advertising anything less than billboards in traditional advertising might not work and of course there is a lot of cost to many advertising methods.

Im not a Room Owner but I have friends who are and have been and from what I see the Alcohol sales and issues surrounding Room Ownership keep a Room Owner busy enough to not want to add anything else to their list of things to do.

I see this pretty simple and my goal right now is to put together a PDF Ebooklet on the observations and theories that I have and send the ebooks out free of charge.

When its done you can get it by emailing me at poolpowersystem@yahoo.com That is the email for my forthcoming ebook that I hope to have out by the end of October and since this is pool in nature its a good place to email the free information from.

Until I start getting out to some of the rooms and talking to them about it, the best I can really do is organize the information and make available something that I think has the potential work in hopes that it will catch on. I want to do one of these Clubs myself here locally when I have time and permission from a Room Owner for it. Suggestions help this process. What do you know? A whole lot more than I do. You know what you are willing to do, so I will get my plan together and if you read it and its something you are willing to do, thats the biggest litmus test there is. The rest is found in the proof stage.

 

[Wags]

meet up

There is an organization doing this type of thing. It's called Meet Up. Check it out. Www.meetup.com

If there is not one in you area, start one. Both places I live have one, Kansas City and Minneapolis. Go to those sites and see what they are doing.

 

[galipeau]

I was apart of the college pool club. Every once in a while, we would form a team and play other universities. It was all self-organized. If they had something like this in high school, I would have been all over it.

 

[336Robin]

This is Awesome

There is an organization doing this type of thing. It's called Meet Up. Check it out. Www.meetup.com

If there is not one in you area, start one. Both places I live have one, Kansas City and Minneapolis. Go to those sites and see what they are doing.

Wags,
This is awesome man. You could post up....Pool Club...anywhere you were and attract new people right off of the internet. Just sharing the website locally with friends they might find all kinds of things to do. I saw several groups Id like hangout with. Very, Very good idea. A perfect way to connect to Millenials because they are on sites like this. If people were to see Pool Club posted as a thing to do...yeah. I wont forget this, thanks.

 

[336Robin]

Scholastic Pool Clubs are Cool

I was apart of the college pool club. Every once in a while, we would form a team and play other universities. It was all self-organized. If they had something like this in high school, I would have been all over it.

Galipeau,
I very much like the idea of Scholastic "After School Clubs." I can see where some schools might not want to get involved with a club that takes place where alcohol is served but that doesnt mean that interest doesnt exist for a club such as this. I can see it as being something very very cool to do. Can you imagine what it would be like if the cooler kids were involved in Pool. I think it makes for a very important part of any recruitment initiative. Kids are way to the future. Two awesome ideas back to back...awesome.

 

[Paul Schofield]

I see this pretty simple and my goal right now is to put together a PDF Ebooklet on the observations and theories that I have and send the ebooks out free of charge.

When its done you can get it by emailing me at poolpowersystem@yahoo.com That is the email for my forthcoming ebook that I hope to have out by the end of October and since this is pool in nature its a good place to email the free information from.

I would not do this. Go do your ground work and THEN publish the results of your trials. Your "observations and theories" may turn out to be hogwash and you blow any credibility that you may have. The industry does not care what you think. The industry wants to know what works.

 

[336Robin]

Youre right

I would not do this. Go do your ground work and THEN publish the results of your trials. Your "observations and theories" may turn out to be hogwash and you blow any credibility that you may have. The industry does not care what you think. The industry wants to know what works.

Paul,
Youre absolutely right. I guess what I was going for by thinking this direction was to try and get some of these experiments started hopefully in a few places with sort of a guide to doing it. It might be my brainchild so to speak but its not mine to do exclusively. As you suggest its something Im throwing out there for the industry hopefully to copy and paste as many times as they can if it works.

Without someone being able to find time to do it, its going to slow progress up considerably as I might not be able to until I let loose of this job in October.

I encourage anyone to be a Pool Club director. All you need is a Room Owner that will go for it. Just have the Room Owner read this thread. I also have the information posted up on my website until I get a better document printed out to email to people that are interested in the concept. There is no blog there so I think that would be within the rules of this forum.

Something that does concern me is that this might work just fine and yet no one really feels the compunction to do anything with it. That would be a real shame in my opinion but hey it is what it is in pool world.

I will add that if there is anyone in North Carolina that would want to do this I will be happy to jump in and help with it anything that I can do with the time I have around my work schedule. Im in the Winston Salem area but will drive to do it as long as its with my ability to do.

 

[336Robin]

Setting Things Up

I talked to my first Room Owner yesterday for the first time on this:

He listened to what I had to say wrapping his mind around the concept. As I talked and told him about what the Program was designed to do...attract a better demographic he knodded his head in agreement. I told him this wasn't something designed for his Pool Crowd to come in and scoop up some free Pool Time. It was being developed to bring in New Customers from a segment that probably doesn't even know that pool is out there. A segment that if they knew how fun Pool could be that they might get the idea to come out and play and if not, they might end up being a bar customer for events like the Big Game and he liked that.

I just sort of introduced the concept and am letting him wrap his mind around it and I will talk to him again later.

What I can see from this first approach to a Room Owner is:

Whoever wants to do something like this youre going to have to be present. You might even have to go with the Room Owner to make some of the Invitations for people to come out and play which means you also need to have a vested interest.

This being a new concept I don't think you are going to convince a Room Owner to run out and speak at the Lions Club Meeting without having some support standing there with him. So you might have to come with a plan to do this as a duo with you being the tag along. People are going to ask you what they are going to be doing and you are likely the guy that is going to directing activities so you might want to have a plan.


My plan is to get the people challenging tables. The winner stays the loser leaves for the guy that is up next. After I get and idea of how people play then you make it more social and you partner up people who are Strong and Weaker as partners that way everyone has more of a chance to win.

You as the tagalong organizer have to have some reason to want to do what you are hanging out with the Room Owner trying to promote his business.

So that means it would be good if you were prepared to give some pool lessons. People are going to be curious and want some help along the way and I think that any good player could do this but more especially someone who had some formal instruction in how to teach people to play pool.

These are my thoughts on it at this point. Creating Pool Clubs wont happen overnight. Its going to happen a little at a time and you have to work at it and do whatever it asks you to do. Its something that is grassroots, good for pool and something you can have a lot of fun with. A lot depends on the Room Owner. He has to warm up to it and take part or give you the right to drive the train yourself. Maybe after he knows what you are going to do he would but he would surely have to trust you to represent his business.

A lot of possibilities here as have been mentioned in the posts above.

After School Clubs for kids that drive is a possibility, they can bring a parent to supervise. I cant imagine a Room Owner that wouldn't give a bunch of High School kids a break on some pool time.

 

[conetip]

This is the pool club here in Hamilton.
http://www.masse.co.nz/

This model is working very well to encourage younger players to enjoy the game.
It used to be the Waikato snooker and 8 Ball club. It was started by a group of players, there is a yearly membership fee, that is very reasonable. The advantage of being a member is cheaper table time, regular competitions, and events during the week.
They now have a club in Auckland as well.
Neil

 

[book collector]

Its a fine idea , except chess is dieing just like pool.

There are less than half as many chess clubs today as there were in ohio 10 years ago and the only reason they still exist is that they don't have any overhead.
The favorite saying on chess sites i frequent is Poker killed chess.
I think it is poker and the fact that most young people aren'willing to pay the dues to learn to play pool or chess or anything else well.
You can be world champion at poker and win millions at 18 years old and have played 1000 times or less in a game.
You can't do it in chess or pool without 10,000 hours or more and that would be a handfull in history.

 

[336Robin]

Very Nice Indeed

This is the pool club here in Hamilton.
http://www.masse.co.nz/

This model is working very well to encourage younger players to enjoy the game.
It used to be the Waikato snooker and 8 Ball club. It was started by a group of players, there is a yearly membership fee, that is very reasonable. The advantage of being a member is cheaper table time, regular competitions, and events during the week.
They now have a club in Auckland as well.
Neil

This is very nice and from a view of the ceiling its the kind of building that I have envisioned to be something more affordable to do something of this nature here in the states.

I will look and read more about this club. Is is this club also open to the public or is it just membership only?

 

[336Robin]

Its a little different

Its a fine idea , except chess is dieing just like pool.

There are less than half as many chess clubs today as there were in ohio 10 years ago and the only reason they still exist is that they don't have any overhead.
The favorite saying on chess sites i frequent is Poker killed chess.
I think it is poker and the fact that most young people aren'willing to pay the dues to learn to play pool or chess or anything else well.
You can be world champion at poker and win millions at 18 years old and have played 1000 times or less in a game.
You can't do it in chess or pool without 10,000 hours or more and that would be a handfull in history.

Book Collector,
Thank you for your comment. I used to have a small chess club and participate in others and you are right a lot of things out there are dying because there are a lot of different things to do nowadays.

There aren't as many die hards in anything because of it. I believe people are very distracted and don't find a place to settle because of internet games and all kinds of subject being thrown at them from the internet. It takes up their time and then its time to go back to work.

I have the belief that people are social beings and enjoy the company of others so I believe pool is a little different in respects to chess because this idea of Pool Club may or may not produce people who enjoy pool so much that they become life long members of it.

I think that if people have FUN and associate that with playing pool that retention of attention is much higher. If we can get people coming to the Pool Room and they find out that its a nice way to spend some time then I would think that the chance they would find their way back is higher vs. if they weren't exposed at all. Only time will tell on the statistics of the success.

If we can get to groups of people, get them exposed to the Fun that's about as much as one can do. So we make it people that might have some money to come back and play some and have a good time with friends.

If for instance a room decided to have Pool Club on a specific date such as The 3rd Saturday of the Month from 12-5pm.

All you really would have to do in regards to your time to get people there is make a few phone calls.

You call up the XYZ company and speak to the owner or manager and tell him he and his employees are invited to the place for some free pool and semi organized fun and then just be there and kind of direct them to the fun.

The idea produces people walking in the door. Some become customers some don't. If you collect things like email addresses and let them know when you are having a big feed for the Game, you might get a bar customer.

That is the main difference I see between Pool and Chess. In Pool you with a Club Concept you have a chance of giving something back to the Room Owner in revenue production.

Hopefully people come in, people have fun, equipment gets sold, pool leagues get joined, instruction gets given, bar customers are made, people become friends and the Sports Bar becomes a social setting and home away from home and a hangout for people to have buddies. I saw this in chess but the benefactors were mainly the people who socialized around the game and not the restaurant owners who sold a few plates of breakfast food because not so many new people were coming into chess because there wasn't a component for going out and inviting groups of new people into it.

You made a good point but I think its a little different and I remain positive it has the potential to do well.

 

[336Robin]

Not that Hard to do

I do not feel it would be that hard to be a point man to organize something like this in a local room.

Neither do I. The idea that Im having right now is pick an afternoon when business is slow and ask the owner hey do you mind if I have a Pool Club during the slow time?

I cant imagine that it would be hard to get going. The idea of bringing a group of people in and doing anything ought to appeal the Room Owner and to get new people right off of the bat you can advertise on the internet and just put the post up.

Pool Club

Every 3rd Saturday of the month....or every week, just whatever
List the Venue, the address and the time

Then tell them what youre going to do.

Come to the Sportsbar for an afternoon of Pool and Fun.
We are going to play a little pool, have a few minutes of Pool Instruction and then we are going to play King of the Hill 8 ball in teams. We will put weak and strong players together so that everyone has a chance. Youre going to have a lot of fun.
Maybe even give a contact number to the person who is going to be there running it.

What is not to love about that? It could be free, it could be low cost. If there were a little something coming in the way of a small green fee the room owner might put out some snacks. If people are having fun they might be inclined to provide some themselves.

Anyone can do this...you don't have to be an Instructor or have instruction...just get permission to use the place during a specific time and you either do free advertisement or invite people to come and then just be there at the times you say you will and bingo, things start happening. People meet each other and make friends, that's your power right there.

You need permission, you need new people, you need to be present at the appointed time or have someone there to receive people and you need to keep it fun.

The rest will happen by itself and whatever happens you just build on it.

What the Idea needs is for people to just to step up and do it...all over the country.

Pool Clubs all over the country, bringing new people into the sport, that would be awesome and there is no reason it couldn't happen. It just takes someone that cares enough to want to meet new people and see them have a good time with pool.

 

[conetip]

This is very nice and from a view of the ceiling its the kind of building that I have envisioned to be something more affordable to do something of this nature here in the states.

I will look and read more about this club. Is is this club also open to the public or is it just membership only?

It is open to the public, but you pay more than if you were a member.
They have food, drinks, tea,etc,/beer etc. If you are showing any signs of being intoxicated, you will not be served any alcoholic drinks, if your behaviour is not to the standard required, you will be asked to leave, intoxicated or not.
I have never seen any one be asked to leave yet. Most drive there, so can not have more than a couple of drinks anyway.
What I have noticed at the club in town, is that a lot of people who do not smoke and do not drink, now come out and play pool. The emphasis is on pool and snooker, not alcohol and smoking with pool as entertainment. I think that is why it is doing quite well. The club members also like to keep the language family friendly,and it is a place you can take children or grandchildren to play. The youngest I think playing and quite doing well is about 8 years or so old. The younger ones do need supervision from parents or guardians.
Neil

 

[336Robin]

Awesome Concept

It is open to the public, but you pay more than if you were a member.
They have food, drinks, tea,etc,/beer etc. If you are showing any signs of being intoxicated, you will not be served any alcoholic drinks, if your behaviour is not to the standard required, you will be asked to leave, intoxicated or not.
I have never seen any one be asked to leave yet. Most drive there, so can not have more than a couple of drinks anyway.
What I have noticed at the club in town, is that a lot of people who do not smoke and do not drink, now come out and play pool. The emphasis is on pool and snooker, not alcohol and smoking with pool as entertainment. I think that is why it is doing quite well. The club members also like to keep the language family friendly,and it is a place you can take children or grandchildren to play. The youngest I think playing and quite doing well is about 8 years or so old. The younger ones do need supervision from parents or guardians.
Neil

Neil,
This is an awesome concept. I could see this happening in the US. I think the beginnings of it have popped up from time to time. We have some rooms here that offer monthly play time packages and there is very small fee to be a member.

I think this concept could be done on a wider scale and it would help players to play more. I've often thought that a room regulars should buy a membership I refer to it as a Gold Card membership and their pool time is cheaper. Since they love to play and come regular they are going to purchase more of it so I think it should be cheaper. A trap I see a lot of nice places get into is not offering value for the regulars. They just place a price on the time and that's it. I think that makes players who would otherwise be there all of the time only come a few times a week. I see this in the room I play in. They have some specials but its at times when its likely no one will be out so not so many people take advantage of them except some of the regulars. I love to play long extended sessions and its hard for people here to part with $40 to $50 dollars to enjoy a nice set like that, especially if it something you might want to do a couple times a week. I think there is some value in having regulars that are always around to help someone with their game and to provide someone to play when someone does get the idea that...hey Id like to go play some pool!

I really like what you fellows have going over there. Could we talk you into coming over here and opening up a chain of those?

 

[336Robin]

Pool Club Concept

I think the Pool Club Concept is something that can work not only for organizing existing players but also for recruiting new customers for the places that have Pool Tables.

The more different kinds of people you expose to Pool. The more chances you have of creating customers and getting the kinds of demographics you want to develop into. A a point you need a target to focus on to make a home for better groups of people. Without invitations to come play likely many people will never know Pool exists.