Pool Hall Marketing Question

[vasilios]

The room only employs my friend and his wife. It's more of a hobby than a job for him, but ways to attract new customers are a necessity to keep it open. He's open from 3pm-12am on weekdays and 2pm-12:30am on weekends.

thanks for the reply Coolboy

the tables and the room look pretty good.but the lay out looks sad.it looks like the room is laid for players to be at the tables only.it does not look like there are any social gathering areas that supply get off your feet comfort.the room looks like it is saying stand by your table, pay me then go home. makes it tough for twenty people to watch two people play with some eats and drinks.

bill

 

[realkingcobra]

You see the tables correct?(The first picture shows how good they are kept and the condition of them are great). He also sets aside two special tables for people who are more serious about the game so those are immaculate. Whats the point of doing this test? The tables play great as i have played on them many times. My friend doesn't settle for bad equipment. But also i don't think buying all new tables would settle this problem, i mean i've been to halls in the area and none compare and newer tables aren't made as good as the old ones unless you spend a ton on getting some newer ones. I think it lies in the customer personally, and i agree if the tables were bad it would be a problem but i don't think thats the case. Next time i'm in i'll try the test out but whats the catch, what are specifically getting at?

How tables look...have no bearing on how they play. Older tables don't mean better tables....if anything...it just means they've been worked on a lot more than newer ones. The tables always look good...from a distance, but the cue ball tells the true story. The test I told you to do...is the best way of telling what condition the cushions are in...the rails in general...and the speed of the tables...which tells me how the tables play. I'm not talking about the pockets...just the general way in which the tables play. Loose cloth....won't pass the test, bad cushions...won't pass the test...bank more than 5 rails length wise...but can't catch 9 rails around the table...rails are are banking short....can't get 9 or 5...tables play slow and bank soft...pinching the balls. I know what I'm talking about when it comes to how a pool table should play. What are the slate seams like?....any seam lines showing? Are the tables level?

Changed the cloth 3-4 years ago?...That in itself is not a good sign of business...it for sure means no one's going there to play pool. Not trying to be hard on you...but I have owned 3 pool rooms in the past

 

[brophog]

If you really wanna draw a crowd, offer free weed, beer, and midget strippers.

I tried that once. You'd be amazed how much free weed a midget stripper goes through.

 

[realkingcobra]

You see the tables correct?(The first picture shows how good they are kept and the condition of them are great). He also sets aside two special tables for people who are more serious about the game so those are immaculate. Whats the point of doing this test? The tables play great as i have played on them many times. My friend doesn't settle for bad equipment. But also i don't think buying all new tables would settle this problem, i mean i've been to halls in the area and none compare and newer tables aren't made as good as the old ones unless you spend a ton on getting some newer ones. I think it lies in the customer personally, and i agree if the tables were bad it would be a problem but i don't think thats the case. Next time i'm in i'll try the test out but whats the catch, what are specifically getting at?

Based on the PM you sent me about testing the playability of the tables, they need the cushions replaced...the rails re-calibrated, and new cloth. That's the FIRST thing that needs to be done, then what everyone else on this thread said. The days of "table time alone" paying the rent is over, but at the very least....the tables need to play better than the rooms that you compete with in your area...because if all you have as a draw to customers is your pool tables....then they damn well better be worth it

Glen

 

[sammi sam]

How about Bikni ladies for promotions, lol

 

[Palmerfan]

I know a gentleman who has owned a pool hall for many years. When i first started going there was a high demand to play pool(every table was filled), but in recent years business has been slower. We talked today and we were trying to brainstorm some good ideas for his pool hall. I have two questions that maybe some of you can answer(if you have a few suggestions thats fine):
1. What are some good ways that would attract new customers, and how could one go about creating some incentives to get more people to come in and play? Maybe some common deals or things that you look for in a pool hall would provide some good insight.
2. Theres incentive for me to bring in new players to his hall as well, because for each new player i bring i get half off my pool time. What are some good ways of bringing and introducing people who aren't necessarily players(just like to play for fun) to this pool hall?

Thanks guys and don't hesitate to share an idea i'm looking for suggestions.

An "Unlimited" flat rate for all day play on weekdays from opening till close and on weekends to 7pm. If the hourly rate is around $8 per person, you charge a $15-$20 flat rate for all day and night play. Most people average around 3 hrs from what the owner who does this told me, and it increased his business and even if a few tables get 5 hrs play..the owner got $60-$80 for those tables which is fine. Offering a daily 'Flat Rate" which must be paid for in advance no exceptions is a great way to increase revenue.

 

[Tramp Steamer]

Since Jay has the most experience at this sort of promotion, and if his consulting fees are reasonable enough, then I'd say call him first.
Along with that I'd say ask your man to accomodate his regular customers, and establish some basic rules. No dope, no beer cans, no muscle shirts, no smoking, and no waitresses running around in bikinis.

 

[bboxgrinder]

The money player idea is great i love it but it's hard because this pool room doesn't have a kitchen or serve alcohol(there is food that they sell though and drinks). As far as the tables go they are excellent brunswick 70's tables with that blue felt that the pros use and done by one of the guys who does the pro tables. Usually alcohol pays for the cheap tables but in this case i think they would need a viable alternative that would keep money players around but also profit in another sense. Any ideas?

I by far am no expert but I can't see the days of pool rooms that do not sell some sort of food and at LEAST beer be able to survive especially if they are paying rent.

My question after the above statement would be does he have leagues such as APA, TAP, or BCAPL. Most, not all of the "new generation" leaguers like to have a beer as it is just a night out for them. Leagues can be the lifeline for struggling rooms today. Not only do they bring in crowds there are a lot of "New" players to be introduced to the game for not only a night out.

My hat goes off to this guy for trying to keep that traditional "pool only" room open. I grew up playing in that type of room, but unfortunatly with the changes in time and the game itself I just can't see a room like that surviving except in very few exceptions.

I hope you guys get everything sorted and keep busness going. We are losing too many rooms these days.

 

[bboxgrinder]

Try out the test...and post what you find out

Selling them diamond tables may bring in some better players but the MAJORITY of crowds such as leagues who play pool aren't going to throw much of a fuss over those tables the OP posted. I am assuming as a Diamond man and a business man that would be your far pitch, if not my bad. :sorry: I do however agree that if they haven't had rubbers changed or reclothed in that long they are overdue for a service. They look to me like they are in very good shape and well maintained from the pics. Diamonds I agree play the best but they are certainly not the only table on the market. Not to mention the op is posting of a struggling business not one that needs to invest in another 50k to attract a few upscale shooters. JMHO, no offense intended at your posts Glenn, I respect your work and experience on the subject thoroughly.

 

[realkingcobra]

Selling them diamond tables may bring in some better players but the MAJORITY of crowds such as leagues who play pool aren't going to throw much of a fuss over those tables the OP posted. I am assuming as a Diamond man and a business man that would be your far pitch, if not my bad. :sorry: I do however agree that if they haven't had rubbers changed or reclothed in that long they are overdue for a service. They look to me like they are in very good shape and well maintained from the pics. Diamonds I agree play the best but they are certainly not the only table on the market. Not to mention the op is posting of a struggling business not one that needs to invest in another 50k to attract a few upscale shooters. JMHO, no offense intended at your posts Glenn, I respect your work and experience on the subject thoroughly.

I'm certainly not talking about selling the room owner new Diamond pool tables that's for sure. In fact, with out all of the things needed to make a room profitable today..."food/beer/wine" as a minimum....my advice to Diamond about financing this room with Diamond's....would be..."Don't do it"...and if the room owner could afford to buy Diamonds and asked me what should they do?...my advice would be to invest that money...in your OWN pool tables....put in a kitchen...and get a beer license...as a minimum...if you want to stay IN business down the road.

All of you who think the "bangers" don't know the difference between a good or bad playing pool table....need to have your heads examined...because you don't know shit about what you're saying. Just ask Natalie....the owner of "Skip & Jan's"...in Tempe, AZ....or Clark, the owner of "Malarkeys Pool & Brew" in Tacoma, WA....or Shane, the owner of the new..."rebuilt GC3's" pool room, in Syracuse, NY.

Everyone of you that give advice first about how to increase business....fail to ask the most important question of them all...."IS YOUR PLACE WORTH GOING TO....TO PLAY POOL?

There should NEVER be "Players tables"...and "Bangers tables"...all the tables should be in better playing condition that ANYONE else's around your place of business. Because if they're not....you're going to pay the price for treating the "Players" with respect....and "DOGGING" the "Bangers"...who are the ones that PAY the bills.

As far as I'm concerned....there's only 2 kinds of pool tables....either GREAT playing....or junk-ass shit....and I WON"T pay for the second....just to play some pool....not with MY money...and there's a LOT of other people that feel the SAME way....only...you don't see them...if they're NOT coming to your pool room

 

[bboxgrinder]

I'm certainly not talking about selling the room owner new Diamond pool tables that's for sure. In fact, with out all of the things needed to make a room profitable today..."food/beer/wine" as a minimum....my advice to Diamond about financing this room with Diamond's....would be..."Don't do it"...and if the room owner could afford to buy Diamonds and asked me what should they do?...my advice would be to invest that money...in your OWN pool tables....put in a kitchen...and get a beer license...as a minimum...if you want to stay IN business down the road.

All of you who think the "bangers" don't know the difference between a good or bad playing pool table....need to have your heads examined...because you don't know shit about what you're saying. Just ask Natalie....the owner of "Skip & Jan's"...in Tempe, AZ....or Clark, the owner of "Malarkeys Pool & Brew" in Tacoma, WA....or Shane, the owner of the new..."rebuilt GC3's" pool room, in Syracuse, NY.

Everyone of you that give advice first about how to increase business....fail to ask the most important question of them all...."IS YOUR PLACE WORTH GOING TO....TO PLAY POOL?

There should NEVER be "Players tables"...and "Bangers tables"...all the tables should be in better playing condition that ANYONE else's around your place of business. Because if they're not....you're going to pay the price for treating the "Players" with respect....and "DOGGING" the "Bangers"...who are the ones that PAY the bills.

As far as I'm concerned....there's only 2 kinds of pool tables....either GREAT playing....or junk-ass shit....and I WON"T pay for the second....just to play some pool....not with MY money...and there's a LOT of other people that feel the SAME way....only...you don't see them...if they're NOT coming to your pool room

At least I said I was assuming. And I do agree with most of what you say as well as myself am choosy on where I spend my money to play. I do not agree that true "bangers" care if it's a box or a good table though, of course that can't include ALL but the majority. I am sure the examples of the places you gave of where bangers care are correct but I could show you several places in the Northeast that is totally opposite. He**, you may never want to use your skill to fix another table for our "bangers" after one night of hanging around it can be so bad. Thanks for your input/reply to my post, your always upfront & knowledgable.

 

[realkingcobra]

Let me tell all of you something right now, Natalie had EVERYTHING going for her that all of you have said already. Great food, liquor, sports bar, off track betting, great looking staff....and PACKED at lunch and dinner...but on a Friday & Saturday night...in the pool room....like Gordon would say..."I've seen more business in a closed library than this place has" When customers are not showing up for the food menu, or drinks, or to watch sports on TV....what's the draw to get them into a pool room...if not the POOL TABLES? Trust me, Skip & Jan's went from being the worst place in AZ to play pool....to being the best....because Natalie trusted me to invest the money needed to fix her pool tables up...the RIGHT way, and it wasn't cheap by all means....but it was a whole lot cheaper than closing the doors

Glen, the "Realkingcobra"

 

[GARY LLOYD]

I'm certainly not talking about selling the room owner new Diamond pool tables that's for sure. In fact, with out all of the things needed to make a room profitable today..."food/beer/wine" as a minimum....my advice to Diamond about financing this room with Diamond's....would be..."Don't do it"...and if the room owner could afford to buy Diamonds and asked me what should they do?...my advice would be to invest that money...in your OWN pool tables....put in a kitchen...and get a beer license...as a minimum...if you want to stay IN business down the road.

All of you who think the "bangers" don't know the difference between a good or bad playing pool table....need to have your heads examined...because you don't know shit about what you're saying. Just ask Natalie....the owner of "Skip & Jan's"...in Tempe, AZ....or Clark, the owner of "Malarkeys Pool & Brew" in Tacoma, WA....or Shane, the owner of the new..."rebuilt GC3's" pool room, in Syracuse, NY.

Everyone of you that give advice first about how to increase business....fail to ask the most important question of them all...."IS YOUR PLACE WORTH GOING TO....TO PLAY POOL?

There should NEVER be "Players tables"...and "Bangers tables"...all the tables should be in better playing condition that ANYONE else's around your place of business. Because if they're not....you're going to pay the price for treating the "Players" with respect....and "DOGGING" the "Bangers"...who are the ones that PAY the bills.

As far as I'm concerned....there's only 2 kinds of pool tables....either GREAT playing....or junk-ass shit....and I WON"T pay for the second....just to play some pool....not with MY money...and there's a LOT of other people that feel the SAME way....only...you don't see them...if they're NOT coming to your pool room

RKC,

Shane's room in Syracuse is Premium Billiards... Let me tell you the players, serious and casual, are loving it. Many of the league teams are looking to play out of the best room in town. They are going from Valleys with buckets to Diamond Pro Ams with the pro cut pockets and all I am hearing is how much nicer the tables are even if they are a little tougher to play on. The GC3s all I can say is...Wow! Nice job they play great.

Pool has come back to Syracuse. 10 - GC3s, 8 - 7' Pro Ams, 2 - Gabriel heated billiard tables and not a pocket over 4.5" to be seen anywhere. The room is already great and is still in the works to get where they want it to be. Many are waiting to see what is next. I can only imagine.

All I can say is Thank You to Shane, Frank, Mark, Mike and anyone else who has had anything to do with helping get this project off the ground or bringing it to reality. Great job guys.

 

[realkingcobra]

RKC,

Shane's room in Syracuse is Premium Billiards... Let me tell you the players, serious and casual, are loving it. Many of the league teams are looking to play out of the best room in town. They are going from Valleys with buckets to Diamond Pro Ams with the pro cut pockets and all I am hearing is how much nicer the tables are even if they are a little tougher to play on. The GC3s all I can say is...Wow! Nice job they play great.

Pool has come back to Syracuse. 10 - GC3s, 8 - 7' Pro Ams, 2 - Gabriel heated billiard tables and not a pocket over 4.5" to be seen anywhere. The room is already great and is still in the works to get where they want it to be. Many are waiting to see what is next. I can only imagine.

All I can say is Thank You to Shane, Frank, Mark, Mike and anyone else who has had anything to do with helping get this project off the ground or bringing it to reality. Great job guys.

Thank you Gary....for that insight I've been saying for years now....Pool rooms don't just get up one day and close their doors because of lack of business...they close their doors because they didn't do ENOUGH to stay IN business....that's why!

New paint on the walls, clean bathrooms...and all the aforementioned are no excuse for still operating run down...out of date, 20-30-40yr old equipment today....still expecting last years business plan to work this year...and next. I'm not saying that anyone has to replace their Brunswick's or Diamond's....but what I AM saying....is that if you can't get them to the playing standards of TODAYS equipment...then you either need to replace them...or close the doors...because it's coming...if you just expect to sit back and ride the gravy-train and not pay for a ticket! I've seen to many band-aids on pool tables, to many times I've heard..."why should I invest any money in my pool tables, they play just fine"....or..."I can't afford to fix my pool tables"...well, what's the cost of closing the doors to you?

Same thing Dickie told me when I was talking to him about fixing up all 12 of his GC1's up there in Syracuse....I knew Premium Billiards was coming, but I thought I'd give Dickie a fair chance to compete....but he passed. No food to speak of, worn out 40+ year old GC1's...that everyone thinks are the greatest GC's ever built....and no alcohol what-so-ever...and he could have had a alcohol license all along. What do you think his chances are of staying in business...the rest of this year?...competing against Premium Billiards...in Syracuse...with no where else to go? I guarantee you, the first customers he'll lose....is the bangers, then the rest of the remaining customers...until the doors close...and everyone says...well folks...we lost another pool room....pool is still on the downhill slide in America

Glen

 

[Ron F]

Swot it

First thing I'd do is perform a SWOT analysis. What is the room's strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and threats. And be honest with yourself. Better yet, ask customers their opinions.

Ron F

 

[jwine1088]

An "Unlimited" flat rate for all day play on weekdays from opening till close and on weekends to 7pm. If the hourly rate is around $8 per person, you charge a $15-$20 flat rate for all day and night play. Most people average around 3 hrs from what the owner who does this told me, and it increased his business and even if a few tables get 5 hrs play..the owner got $60-$80 for those tables which is fine. Offering a daily 'Flat Rate" which must be paid for in advance no exceptions is a great way to increase revenue.

That's so true i mean i banged em around for 5 hours today from 2-7 today and i think you're right i mean most people who play for fun won't go past 2-3 hours but a player will definitely take the 5 hours. I think it's a win-win cause both people like the idea just one executes the deal better than the other. Does that owner offer two different deals like an hourly or an all night rate or just an all night rate? Like what if someone just wants to play for an hour does he still have to pay $15?

 

[jwine1088]

Selling them diamond tables may bring in some better players but the MAJORITY of crowds such as leagues who play pool aren't going to throw much of a fuss over those tables the OP posted. I am assuming as a Diamond man and a business man that would be your far pitch, if not my bad. :sorry: I do however agree that if they haven't had rubbers changed or reclothed in that long they are overdue for a service. They look to me like they are in very good shape and well maintained from the pics. Diamonds I agree play the best but they are certainly not the only table on the market. Not to mention the op is posting of a struggling business not one that needs to invest in another 50k to attract a few upscale shooters. JMHO, no offense intended at your posts Glenn, I respect your work and experience on the subject thoroughly.

I think what cobra was trying to say was top shape tables will bring in good players and it's agreed, although i agree with you in the sense that a struggling business is gonna have to make their money first in other ways first before making the equipment better overall. It's tough to do that without deep pockets.

 

[jwine1088]

I by far am no expert but I can't see the days of pool rooms that do not sell some sort of food and at LEAST beer be able to survive especially if they are paying rent.

My question after the above statement would be does he have leagues such as APA, TAP, or BCAPL. Most, not all of the "new generation" leaguers like to have a beer as it is just a night out for them. Leagues can be the lifeline for struggling rooms today. Not only do they bring in crowds there are a lot of "New" players to be introduced to the game for not only a night out.

My hat goes off to this guy for trying to keep that traditional "pool only" room open. I grew up playing in that type of room, but unfortunatly with the changes in time and the game itself I just can't see a room like that surviving except in very few exceptions.

I hope you guys get everything sorted and keep busness going. We are losing too many rooms these days.

Yeah this room is very traditional but as you can see i think traditional has a lower survival rate.

 

[Palmerfan]

Flat Rate

That's so true i mean i banged em around for 5 hours today from 2-7 today and i think you're right i mean most people who play for fun won't go past 2-3 hours but a player will definitely take the 5 hours. I think it's a win-win cause both people like the idea just one executes the deal better than the other. Does that owner offer two different deals like an hourly or an all night rate or just an all night rate? Like what if someone just wants to play for an hour does he still have to pay $15?

No the hourly rate is $7.50 per person so the $15 dollar flat rate is a great deal and helped his business. Flat rate must be asked for in advance..no exceptions..and the workers tell every customer when they walk in the 2 options so there is no confusion.

 

[ignomirello]

There should NEVER be "Players tables"...and "Bangers tables"...all the tables should be in better playing condition that ANYONE else's around your place of business.
Because if they're not....you're going to pay the price for treating the "Players" with respect....and "DOGGING" the "Bangers"...who are the ones that PAY the bills.

As far as I'm concerned....there's only 2 kinds of pool tables....either GREAT playing....or junk-ass shit....and I WON"T pay for the second..
..just to play some pool....not with MY money...and there's a LOT of other people that feel the SAME way....only...you don't see them...if they're NOT coming
to your pool room

I disagree If you have players tables in Great condition & Bangers tables in playable condition can't you just adjust the price for the beginners & the players.
I would really hate to re-cloth a table & have a banger scope jump a cue ball ripping the cloth. I might even think about using a thicker cloth on a bangers table.

This is providing you have enough tables to do this.