Mosconi. Not even close.
Pool has a "FATAL FLAW"
- Thread starter Paul Schofield
- Start date
Mosconi. Not even close.
What is an oversize 4x8?
It's a table a bit larger than a standard eight-foot table, but still smaller than a nine-foot table.
Ex. If a company's eight footer has a playing surface of 44" x 88", its oversized eight-foot table might be 46" x 92".
Interestingly, Diamond Billiards has established what seems, at last, to be rational sizes: 40x80, 45x90, and 50x100 -- so their 8-foot table has dimensions half way between those of the 7- and 9-foot tables.
Last edited:
Thanks for all the comments. I have read this entire thread many times. I said before, if I do what everyone else does, I would have been out of business a long time ago. I try new ideas. Big table pool is in the toilet and I don’t need to do what everyone else does (that got it where it is today). I am going to do something else.
This thread triggered a number of ideas. I will experiment in the coming months and see if any of these ideas are fun.
In this thread, I said that watching a high run in pool was like watching solitaire (cards). One insightful comment was that a pool match is merely two players playing solitaire.
This thread triggered a number of ideas. I will experiment in the coming months and see if any of these ideas are fun.
In this thread, I said that watching a high run in pool was like watching solitaire (cards). One insightful comment was that a pool match is merely two players playing solitaire.
Well ... if you want to ignore the defensive aspects.
you don't need an answer because you already made your decision.... You think that the John Q Public wants to see both players have a chance if they watch pool but that is sooo far from the truth... They want to watch, understand, and identify with the player..... Interest is all about long shots and bad beats..... Defense in pool kills both from a spectators point of view.......
Not at all. One player can demolish another player and that is ok. Big public interest is not about long hard shots. It is about dynamics and interaction between competitors. The public will watch poker in a big way but they won't watch solitaire.
(I think I am repeating myself with this post. This topic has been exhausted. It was good.)
Last edited:
It's fatal flaw is that "It is what it is", and can't change
Here's a copy of what I wrote a long time ago, and the reason I think pool isn't more popular.
-------------------------------------------
Exposure to sports / games is what makes them popular to a large degree along with the ability to enjoy performing them, even if only at a novice level.
Once again take for example bowling. Exposure to the game is a natural. A guy and girl go on a date and decide to go bowling. Within one or two attempts they are both at least able to knock down pins with a REAL chance to see themselves make a strike.
Since it is relatively easy to knock down pins and perhaps strike, it even draws kids, families, couples. The resulting atmosphere is an open, fun laugh and jump enjoyable experience.
Golf is another, and different example. Golf is an outdoor game where spectators and players can enjoy the outdoor environment without feeling inhibited or closed in.
Even if they don't perform well, wives and girlfriends are with their men enjoying a day outdoors. Further, they actually can get a feel of golf in another family type environment with mini-golf, which provides yet another form of exposure to the game.
All these exposures spark interest.
Baseball, while worlds apart from the previous examples, still attracts huge TV and novice involvement. Its both an outdoor game, a family event, and just about anyone can catch a ball in a glove (which is an addictive feeling) as well as swing a bat. You go to enough ball games, feel the breeze, enjoy the excitement in the atmosphere of the stadium, and anyone can get hooked on the sport.
Now take pool. It comes from a seedy past. It certainly is intimidating to walk into a pool room as well. You don't really have a great deal of "your own space" while playing. When I had my poolroom, it was obvious to see newcomers lost for a place to stand, what to hold, or how to act when it wasn't their turn. Newcomers are intimidated by the complexity of the game.
Newcomers often came in slightly larger groups also. Maybe, double dates trying it out. Perhaps for the extra moral support. They stood between tables holding the shaft of the sick with two hands, balancing on the butt end placed on the floor. When it was their turn, they were so uncomfortable that they were happy to wail at a shot quickly just to get back to trying to find a space to stand where no one would notice how badly they had just embarrassed themselves.
Now, add to that, the fact that playing the game itself,for the most part is very frustrating to a beginner. Nothing at all like the open fun feeling from bowling or even golf.
Did you ever try playing opposite handed? Try it, maybe while playing with your eyes closed, which is about the same as a newbie who has no idea where to hit the OB or CB. It won't be long before you get a feel for how most new to the game get christened. Nothing like bowling where they are knocking down pins right away.
How long would most of us play with a Rubic's Cube before we wanted to throw it through a window? It simply is more frustrating than fun. By its very nature and complexity it destroys it's own chances of motivating folks to continue to play.
Unlike miniature golf, the idea isn't to laugh and giggle amongst yourselves when the ball bounce off the Windmill. Rather, you stand there, uncomfortable, holding the stick, feeling people around you look at you like you don't have a clue what your are doing. Its just not a comfortable thing for most to do.
And these days you add to that, ridiculously loud intimidating garbage music and the atmosphere becomes even less appealing to neophytes. With so many other choices of things to do, its no wonder to me that pool is much less popular than other sports.
The only chance is to create better, friendlier atmospheres for people so they can be given half a chance at being comfortable playing.
I always thought a poolroom in an indoor shopping mall, well lit with lots of room and no off the wall ( I use the term loosely) music blaring, would offer a more inviting atmosphere. Maybe even a nice pizza area for folks to come in for a bite and a quick look at folks playing.
------------------------------------
But the very best chance pool has to gain popularity with this current generation is to turn it into an instant fad.
A few movies perhaps, maybe a dancing with the pool player reality show where the first prize is a new Iphone with auto texting features.
Kidding of course, but the point is, for the masses, as the quoted poster stated, the game is too difficult, and additionally, too frustrating and set in a too uncomfortable environment for the masses to take interest in.
Here's a copy of what I wrote a long time ago, and the reason I think pool isn't more popular.
-------------------------------------------
Exposure to sports / games is what makes them popular to a large degree along with the ability to enjoy performing them, even if only at a novice level.
Once again take for example bowling. Exposure to the game is a natural. A guy and girl go on a date and decide to go bowling. Within one or two attempts they are both at least able to knock down pins with a REAL chance to see themselves make a strike.
Since it is relatively easy to knock down pins and perhaps strike, it even draws kids, families, couples. The resulting atmosphere is an open, fun laugh and jump enjoyable experience.
Golf is another, and different example. Golf is an outdoor game where spectators and players can enjoy the outdoor environment without feeling inhibited or closed in.
Even if they don't perform well, wives and girlfriends are with their men enjoying a day outdoors. Further, they actually can get a feel of golf in another family type environment with mini-golf, which provides yet another form of exposure to the game.
All these exposures spark interest.
Baseball, while worlds apart from the previous examples, still attracts huge TV and novice involvement. Its both an outdoor game, a family event, and just about anyone can catch a ball in a glove (which is an addictive feeling) as well as swing a bat. You go to enough ball games, feel the breeze, enjoy the excitement in the atmosphere of the stadium, and anyone can get hooked on the sport.
Now take pool. It comes from a seedy past. It certainly is intimidating to walk into a pool room as well. You don't really have a great deal of "your own space" while playing. When I had my poolroom, it was obvious to see newcomers lost for a place to stand, what to hold, or how to act when it wasn't their turn. Newcomers are intimidated by the complexity of the game.
Newcomers often came in slightly larger groups also. Maybe, double dates trying it out. Perhaps for the extra moral support. They stood between tables holding the shaft of the sick with two hands, balancing on the butt end placed on the floor. When it was their turn, they were so uncomfortable that they were happy to wail at a shot quickly just to get back to trying to find a space to stand where no one would notice how badly they had just embarrassed themselves.
Now, add to that, the fact that playing the game itself,for the most part is very frustrating to a beginner. Nothing at all like the open fun feeling from bowling or even golf.
Did you ever try playing opposite handed? Try it, maybe while playing with your eyes closed, which is about the same as a newbie who has no idea where to hit the OB or CB. It won't be long before you get a feel for how most new to the game get christened. Nothing like bowling where they are knocking down pins right away.
How long would most of us play with a Rubic's Cube before we wanted to throw it through a window? It simply is more frustrating than fun. By its very nature and complexity it destroys it's own chances of motivating folks to continue to play.
Unlike miniature golf, the idea isn't to laugh and giggle amongst yourselves when the ball bounce off the Windmill. Rather, you stand there, uncomfortable, holding the stick, feeling people around you look at you like you don't have a clue what your are doing. Its just not a comfortable thing for most to do.
And these days you add to that, ridiculously loud intimidating garbage music and the atmosphere becomes even less appealing to neophytes. With so many other choices of things to do, its no wonder to me that pool is much less popular than other sports.
The only chance is to create better, friendlier atmospheres for people so they can be given half a chance at being comfortable playing.
I always thought a poolroom in an indoor shopping mall, well lit with lots of room and no off the wall ( I use the term loosely) music blaring, would offer a more inviting atmosphere. Maybe even a nice pizza area for folks to come in for a bite and a quick look at folks playing.
------------------------------------
But the very best chance pool has to gain popularity with this current generation is to turn it into an instant fad.
A few movies perhaps, maybe a dancing with the pool player reality show where the first prize is a new Iphone with auto texting features.
Kidding of course, but the point is, for the masses, as the quoted poster stated, the game is too difficult, and additionally, too frustrating and set in a too uncomfortable environment for the masses to take interest in.
Your post makes a lot of sense too me, and the Room/Bar/Sports Bar Owners who are dying. Because the people you talk about are chasing away some of their business. Those Room/Bar/Sports Bar Owners need to wake up and fix the problem.
Also as I have said before Pool, be it the Mens Pro, Female Pro, Senior Division, or Armature Tournaments & League Pool need one set of STANDARDIZED RULES, ONE Governing Body who GUARANTEES MONEY TO BE PAID at ever Pro Level Tournament Level, so no more RENO TYPE FIASCOS take place ever again. Were player gathered in Reno at the Peppermill to compete, pay fees, incur room & travel expenses, etc., and the winners only have expenses receipts to show for their efforts.
Also like I have said before here in the Valley of the Sun, we have like 7 or 8 different LEAGUES NAMED like APA, BCAPL, ACS, TAP AAZ Pool League, and a few more. Wonder if there was just one like years ago before I moved to the Valley of the Sun thing would function better, and the player would share a larger chunk of the end of season payout.
I think small local tournaments would police themselves, as small room who advertise, and don't pay out as advertised would fold because of local player boycotts those who bait and switch.
Will this ever happen. I am not betting any money it will.
Last edited:
I think you are speaking more to the business of pool rather than about the game itself.
An idea
Take a game like 9-ball.
Modify the rules so that:
Here are the rules:
These rules can be modified for almost any game excluding one-pocket.
What do you guys think?
Take a game like 9-ball.
Modify the rules so that:
- Breaks don't matter
- Number of games is (mostly) irrelevant
- Each player gets the same opportunities at the table
- Negates the need for safety play
- Incentivizes lower percentage shots
- Eliminates chasing the 9
Here are the rules:
- Minimum of nine racks
- Players alternate breaks
- Players DO NOT leave the table when they miss
- Players continue shooting until the rack is run
- Misses are tallied and added to their score
- Lower scores are better
- The lowest possible score is 0
- Tie of 0-0 necessitates an additional seven racks
- Tie of anything greater than 0 necessitates an additional three racks
- After 12 racks, if the players are still tied, a draw is called and players split the purse
These rules can be modified for almost any game excluding one-pocket.
What do you guys think?
how bout this thought for a tourney format?
pool with a baseball twist
*round robin format
*1 day or 2 day (for a single round or 2 round event)
*9 innings of pool
*noone plays 2nd inning until all participants have finished 1st inning of play
*the person(s) with the lowest overall score will begin the following round of play
*each inning consisting of playing the ghost in a rack of fifteen ball rotation
*bih after the break
*call your pocket
*there will be two offensive ways of continuing your run at the table;
#1 you must strike the lowest numbered ball first and may call any other ball. examples being a 1-9 combo or multiple ball combo, or carom in the 7 ball (or possibly a carom combination, ticky,etc.) after contacting the lowest numbered ball first, or banking the lowest numbered ball into another ball or balls(again intended ball and intended pocket shall be called).
#2 you do not have to hit the lowest numbered ball on the table first but you do have to make the lowest numbered ball in that shot, also call the pocket that is intended for the lowest numbered ball. examples being, hitting any ball or balls first but calling only the lowest numbered ball and pocket, or caroming off of any ball or balls on the table into the lowest numbered ball on the table calling only the lowest numbered ball and pocket
***these offensive rules would be incorporated for spectators to see how top players handle tricky layouts and help the players with congestive layouts,bad breaks,etc.,and increase run potential.just imagine some of the shots you would see made by top players from time to time!***
*scoring could be something like this.
*a run of 1 to 5 balls=1pt(single)
*" "6 to 10 balls=2pt (double)
*" "11 to 14balls=3pt(triple)
*a run of 15 =4pt(home run)
*2 consecutive 15 ball runs=+1pt.bonus(grand slam)
*3 or more 15 ball runs in succesion=1pt bonus each round
*after a miss bonus resets with player having to have 2 consecutive runs to aquire the "grand slam"bonus again
*tally the score after nine innings any ties result in extra innings with points awarded a little differently (to help finish the tourney)
*something like the tenth inning 1 to 3 balls= 1pt., 4 to6=2 pt., 7 to 9=3,
10 to 12=4, 13 to 14=5,15=6
*and in the chance of another tie every inning that follows point per ball till someone wins
* last but not least balls slopped in will count towards scoring if called shot is made.
* balls slopped in when called shot is missed will not count towards round tally.
pool with a baseball twist
*round robin format
*1 day or 2 day (for a single round or 2 round event)
*9 innings of pool
*noone plays 2nd inning until all participants have finished 1st inning of play
*the person(s) with the lowest overall score will begin the following round of play
*each inning consisting of playing the ghost in a rack of fifteen ball rotation
*bih after the break
*call your pocket
*there will be two offensive ways of continuing your run at the table;
#1 you must strike the lowest numbered ball first and may call any other ball. examples being a 1-9 combo or multiple ball combo, or carom in the 7 ball (or possibly a carom combination, ticky,etc.) after contacting the lowest numbered ball first, or banking the lowest numbered ball into another ball or balls(again intended ball and intended pocket shall be called).
#2 you do not have to hit the lowest numbered ball on the table first but you do have to make the lowest numbered ball in that shot, also call the pocket that is intended for the lowest numbered ball. examples being, hitting any ball or balls first but calling only the lowest numbered ball and pocket, or caroming off of any ball or balls on the table into the lowest numbered ball on the table calling only the lowest numbered ball and pocket
***these offensive rules would be incorporated for spectators to see how top players handle tricky layouts and help the players with congestive layouts,bad breaks,etc.,and increase run potential.just imagine some of the shots you would see made by top players from time to time!***
*scoring could be something like this.
*a run of 1 to 5 balls=1pt(single)
*" "6 to 10 balls=2pt (double)
*" "11 to 14balls=3pt(triple)
*a run of 15 =4pt(home run)
*2 consecutive 15 ball runs=+1pt.bonus(grand slam)
*3 or more 15 ball runs in succesion=1pt bonus each round
*after a miss bonus resets with player having to have 2 consecutive runs to aquire the "grand slam"bonus again
*tally the score after nine innings any ties result in extra innings with points awarded a little differently (to help finish the tourney)
*something like the tenth inning 1 to 3 balls= 1pt., 4 to6=2 pt., 7 to 9=3,
10 to 12=4, 13 to 14=5,15=6
*and in the chance of another tie every inning that follows point per ball till someone wins
* last but not least balls slopped in will count towards scoring if called shot is made.
* balls slopped in when called shot is missed will not count towards round tally.
Last edited:
bump for opinions?
Tap tap i wholeheartedly agree. Note also pool is booming in China
bump for opinions of this game
(c) will 2011
(
I think there are no opinions because this stuff is ludicrous.
This stuff is no more ludicrous than what we do right now. Pool is kind of silly any way. It's just fun.
Last edited:
I am being redundant but here it goes. The pool playing public has shown only anecdotal interest in playing scored pool games (Bowliards, Equal Offense etc). People lose interest in them quickly and go back to the interactive games (Eight-Ball, Nine-Ball etc). If it works for bowling and golf, why aren't scored games a big success in pool? I don't have the answer but I can tell you that they have been promoted in many shapes and many forms over the last 35 years. To date, no scored game has taken hold.
I say play 15 ball rotation with no safes. Everyone goes for everything. If you run 1 through 15 maybe you get an extra win or something. Both players will get their chance and there will be some Great offense.