Pool Is A Product Too

Johnnyt

Johnnyt

Burn all jump cues
Silver Member
Why do pool tournaments of all kinds get a pass after pass, tournament after tournament? Pool is also a product and can't keep throwing anything out there and assume everyone will just shut up and buy it. You won't buy other products you don't like, why pay to watch pool with rules you don't like? If more of us didn't buy PPV or go to venue because we don't like the rules, time it's on or over, pattern racking, size of table, and many other things just done because it's easier or saves money. Not talking about every TD or promoter. Johnnyt
 
I agree.

I am also frustrated that most people in the pool industry are painfully unaware of marketing concepts at all. Just ask most of the people in the pool industry who their target demographic is or what features they're using to position themselves against other, related products and see how many blank stares you get back.

...and don't even get me started on how bad most pool websites are currently. Really?!?!? You can't even figure out how to use CDN's or a decent caching mechanism? You're killing me, Smalls!
 
Floppage said:
I agree.

I am also frustrated that most people in the pool industry are painfully unaware of marketing concepts at all. Just ask most of the people in the pool industry who their target demographic is or what features they're using to position themselves against other, related products and see how many blank stares you get back.

...and don't even get me started on how bad most pool websites are currently. Really?!?!? You can't even figure out how to use CDN's or a decent caching mechanism? You're killing me, Smalls!
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Great thread; great points.

Marketing the THE most valuable thing in any business venture. Without it being done well, nothing else can happen for long. It deserves as much, or more, work than does a well done draw shot, for example. Jeanette Lee has shown the way.


Jeff Livingston
 
Add to that the ridiculous PPV prices.

50$ for a few days stream? Didn't know I was watching a goddamn world champion UFC fight.
 
SamLambert said:
Add to that the ridiculous PPV prices.

50$ for a few days stream? Didn't know I was watching a goddamn world champion UFC fight.
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If this was directed at Accu-Stats and the events they cover all I can tell you is the costs associated with their coverage don't even get covered with PPV revenue... And as the DVD market continues to shrink the time from coverage to actually getting into the black goes longer and longer....

Think about that as you learn this game because one of the best tools out there is the Accu-Stats catalog of matches on DVD... When there is no longer a chance of getting out of the red Accu-Stats will go away and Pat Fleming will ride off into the sunset.....

Every event I do with them costs me money as I make considerably less doing them than I make consulting and Outsville pretty much shuts down for the time I am gone.... I can't ask for a raise knowing how close the margins are but I will continue to work the events out of my love for the game and my friendship with Pat........

16 Matches over 4 days with 6 of the best players on the planet... $50 is a little over $3 a match and likely between $1-$2 an hour.....
 
The Renfro said:
If this was directed at Accu-Stats and the events they cover all I can tell you is the costs associated with their coverage don't even get covered with PPV revenue... And as the DVD market continues to shrink the time from coverage to actually getting into the black goes longer and longer....

Think about that as you learn this game because one of the best tools out there is the Accu-Stats catalog of matches on DVD... When there is no longer a chance of getting out of the red Accu-Stats will go away and Pat Fleming will ride off into the sunset.....

Every event I do with them costs me money as I make considerably less doing them than I make consulting and Outsville pretty much shuts down for the time I am gone.... I can't ask for a raise knowing how close the margins are but I will continue to work the events out of my love for the game and my friendship with Pat........

16 Matches over 4 days with 6 of the best players on the planet... $50 is a little over $3 a match and likely between $1-$2 an hour.....
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The thing is most people won't pay that kind of money to watch pool. Even if it's what some would consider worth it. Pool seems to be in that situation where you rely on the die-hard fans to compensate for the lack of general interest instead of thinking long-term by having more accessible streams to generate interest with new people.

Maybe I'm just dreaming and that's never gonna happen, but if I'm certain of one thing, it's that with the current prices we see with PPV streams, pool ain't gonna gain exposure.

High PPV prices -> less viewers -> [less sponsors ->] less money -> charge more for PPV.

This is pretty much how it seems to go. It's like no one in the pool world has a clue about marketing.
 
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SamLambert said:
The thing is most people won't pay that kind of money to watch pool. Even if it's what some would consider worth it. Pool seems to be in that situation where you rely on the die-hard fans to compensate for the lack of general interest instead of thinking long-term by having more accessible streams to generate interest with new people.

Maybe I'm just dreaming and that's never gonna happen, but if I'm certain of one thing, it's that with the current prices we see with PPV streams, pool ain't gonna gain exposure.

High PPV prices -> less viewers -> [less sponsors ->] less money -> charge more for PPV.

This is pretty much how it seems to go. It's like no one in the pool world has a clue about marketing.
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Pool is a broken industry and will remain so until those in a position of influence work together to repackage it for a wider audience. Like it or not, pool is a participation sport just like Golf, Bowling, Running, Triathlons, Cycling, etc. The only people watching it are people who play it or have played it at one point in their lives. Otherwise, it simply doesn't appeal as a mass market spectator sport.

You want more viewers, work to create more players. It's pretty much that simple.

You want bigger tournament payouts? Increase the number of people playing recreationally so that the tournaments appeal to a wider audience and the directors can get more viewers. (aka, economies of scale) Want better sponsorship deals for professionals? Increase the number of people playing and subsequently buying new equipment and the manufacturers will have a reason to pay the professionals more.

The general public doesn't want to "pay their dues". The general public wants a less intimidating place to learn, bigger "destination" events, better coverage and a more accessible and supportive local community.

This is an amazing game with absolutely ridiculous potential being run by people who can't even see that they're just leaving stacks of money on the table.
 
Floppage said:
Like it or not, pool is a participation sport just like Golf, Bowling, Running, Triathlons, Cycling, etc. The only people watching it are people who play it or have played it at one point in their lives. Otherwise, it simply doesn't appeal as a mass market spectator sport.
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An unfortunate reality.
 
Regarding the recent accu-stats 10b event, I believe it was marketed pretty well.

- I received a color brochure and letter in the US mail (they have my address from buying DVDs). It described the package that was included for being a $300 "Sponsor".

- it was advertised on their website, AZ forums, Facebook

- There were stories on the AZ front page

- Pat himself described the $300 Sponsor package during the PPV and said he would personally return calls from anyone wanting to be a sponsor.


The proof is in the pudding, at least for me. I had a fun talk with Pat and sponsored the event.
 
Are there rules everyone likes? NO. So how are they suppose to know what rules to play by. I think the price can be to high at times.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 
jeffj2h said:
Regarding the recent accu-stats 10b event, I believe it was marketed pretty well.

- I received a color brochure and letter in the US mail (they have my address from buying DVDs). It described the package that was included for being a $300 "Sponsor".

- it was advertised on their website, AZ forums, Facebook

- There were stories on the AZ front page

- Pat himself described the $300 Sponsor package during the PPV and said he would personally return calls from anyone wanting to be a sponsor.


The proof is in the pudding, at least for me. I had a fun talk with Pat and sponsored the event.
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Thank you for your patronage.... Without supporters the events would not be possible.. You indeed helped to "Make it Happen"...
 
The Renfro said:
If this was directed at Accu-Stats and the events they cover all I can tell you is the costs associated with their coverage don't even get covered with PPV revenue... And as the DVD market continues to shrink the time from coverage to actually getting into the black goes longer and longer....

Think about that as you learn this game because one of the best tools out there is the Accu-Stats catalog of matches on DVD... When there is no longer a chance of getting out of the red Accu-Stats will go away and Pat Fleming will ride off into the sunset.....

Every event I do with them costs me money as I make considerably less doing them than I make consulting and Outsville pretty much shuts down for the time I am gone.... I can't ask for a raise knowing how close the margins are but I will continue to work the events out of my love for the game and my friendship with Pat........

16 Matches over 4 days with 6 of the best players on the planet... $50 is a little over $3 a match and likely between $1-$2 an hour.....
Click to expand...

This was not directed at MIH. I stated in another thread how much I enjoyed that tournament. There are other people on here that weren't happy with the rules and the chosen players. I said, if your not happy with it don't buy it. Johnnyt
 
Floppage said:
I agree.

I am also frustrated that most people in the pool industry are painfully unaware of marketing concepts at all. Just ask most of the people in the pool industry who their target demographic is or what features they're using to position themselves against other, related products and see how many blank stares you get back.
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Agreed. Every pool website, promoter and streamer should call a meeting of their Vice President of Marketing, Director of Advertising and Customer Relations Manager to lay down the law that they'd better listen to the suggestions of AZB posters!

Honestly, you'd forgo watching a match of the top pros because you prefer winner-breaks over alternate-break? Or some other arcane rule?
 
bdorman said:
Agreed. Every pool website, promoter and streamer should call a meeting of their Vice President of Marketing, Director of Advertising and Customer Relations Manager to lay down the law that they'd better listen to the suggestions of AZB posters!

Honestly, you'd forgo watching a match of the top pros because you prefer winner-breaks over alternate-break? Or some other arcane rule?
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Yes I would and do. Also if a tournament is streamed at a venue that was poor quality...I won't but the 1st day until I find the stream is good. Johnnyt
 
bdorman said:
Agreed. Every pool website, promoter and streamer should call a meeting of their Vice President of Marketing, Director of Advertising and Customer Relations Manager to lay down the law that they'd better listen to the suggestions of AZB posters!

Honestly, you'd forgo watching a match of the top pros because you prefer winner-breaks over alternate-break? Or some other arcane rule?
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Making suggestions on AZB is about as effective as screaming them into a toilet but that's no different than any other forum on the web.

And my comments were more about pool not taking a market-driven approach than specific issues with format or rules. The grass grows high on the path to the better mousetrap factory. Pool seems to be missing that simple concept.
 
Johnnyt said:
If more of us didn't buy PPV or go to venue because we don't like the rules, time it's on or over, pattern racking, size of table, and many other things just done because it's easier or saves money.
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I'm sorry but these sound like the wrong reasons to not buy. I mean if there are serious ethical issues like there have been with the US Open, that's a good reason. But I can just imagine I REFUSE TO BUY THIS PPV BECAUSE THEYRE BREAKING FROM THE CENTER AND THEY PUT THE ONE ON THE SPOT. We need to support people trying to promote pool, not find even more nitpicky reasons to boycott.
 
Floppage said:
I agree.

I am also frustrated that most people in the pool industry are painfully unaware of marketing concepts at all. Just ask most of the people in the pool industry who their target demographic is or what features they're using to position themselves against other, related products and see how many blank stares you get back.

...and don't even get me started on how bad most pool websites are currently. Really?!?!? You can't even figure out how to use CDN's or a decent caching mechanism? You're killing me, Smalls!
Click to expand...

I like ^^ :thumbup:
 
What the Pool industry doesn't understand is that the game is a product and every product requires a tailored development program that coincides with the generations. This is why viewers, participators are not on a path of growth. The product simply isn't developed or sold.

By trade and education I have specialised in Product Design, Product Development, Marketing for over 20 years and worked with some serious brands / company's. I have many concepts that would suit the industry in order to engage and appeal to a wider audience. Who's buying..? No-one! Because lower-end company's do not invest in what they do not understand - Only in the larger sectors of business can one find 'The Risk Takers'.

(B4 anyone asks, I'm simply not in a position to bankroll a serious thunderbolt into the heart of Pool...) :thumbup:

So Instead I push out a little creativity here and there and low and behold, a few months later I see similar products hitting the market place. Truth is, Pool is a follower and not a leader, which is why it remains where it is. The Pool industry hasn't even entered the 21st Century - So how can it compete?
 
The average "Joe" doesn't watch "pool". They watch "PEOPLE PLAYING POOL"!

You can have a guy in a tuxedo, in a sterile room, without a noise, running more balls than Willie Mosconi and never missing and 90% of the people would change the channel after a couple minutes.

Whatever they do, they need people like "Earl" in the mix to keep the audience. You need the excitement of "the Thrill of Victory or the Agony of Defeat". Nobody is going to sit and watch a guy in a tuxedo who never shows any emotion, whether he wins or loses.
 
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