Pool is dead

[hitman22]

Some think pool is an enigma but its really just a wonderful art form..For the time I have been on Gods green earth I have seen it die down and come back every 10years or so since the 50s..When Paul Newman did the movie The Hustler in the early 60's; it revived the sport in the same way Clint Eastwood put the Model 29 44 mag into popularity when he played Dirty Harry a bad ass cop in Frisco and then every one wanted to make their day and folks were buying 44s like there was no tomorrow.So also everyone wanted to be fast Eddie Felson who did magic like no one else on the green and pool thrived till the mid 70s and brought in to vogue the colorful players that were already around at the time and brought in a new breed also,then pool took a dump again till the movie The Color of Money came out and gave pool another shot in the arm fielding a new crop of talent once again.Just maybe we need another movie.An epic classic with flair and good story line along with great choreography. Speaking of choreography;it could be a lot better on the screen;everyone loves to see how the greats do it but they spoil it with to many overhead shots and lousy diagrams instead of showing more of the whole players stroke side where you can watch his complete stroke to see how he articulates and how it correlates to what he does on the table.To me this is important when its televised and that it could be better than being at a tournament in person if you can't get a good seat it.A lot of the time all you see is a head,grip arm and cue.If you are a enthusiast and want to learn by seeing this don't do shit... On another note anything that brings people to pool is good for the sport whether it be a league or pro event long as they are good examples of sportsmanship for youth and all of human kind.Pool is a wonderful Sport and beautiful art form. I hope to see more expression of this art in the realm of individuality in the future and think we need more as it is what makes for a colorful and great to watch thing...Now this is just a personal obesrvation but pool can be boring if all you see are carbon copy clones going thru the paces. I have seen players be put in molds when learning and lose all the natural flair for the game they had.Watching a colorful player is hypnotic but on the other hand a technical player can tend to be pretty boring to watch or make you want to play or learn to play.This dose nothing to entice people in nor does a seedy room that smells like BO.I won't mention any specifics but there is some supposed big time places that in no way would subject myself or family to in that environment.In this circle of life I have been around pool for 60 years off and on and love the sport from the age of twelve on but do miss the players of yesterday year that have moved on to the ultimate room in the sky
Regards Hitman

 

[spktur]

IMO the last time pool was getting major sponsorship was during the
Camel Series pro tour.. they were putting up pretty decent money,
publicity was good, and most of the major players were involved.

Then Mackay killed the golden goose, making demands of RJ
Reynolds (Camel), not paying the players, etc. Joe Camel
pulled his pool sponsorship, and that was that.

I don't think any major sponsor will touch pool now... $.02

I had no use for Mackey and feel like he ripped off the players in the end settlement of the Camel Tour. But it was not his doing that killed the R J Reynolds sponsorship. That belongs to the federal government when they passed a ruling tobacco could no longer sponsor sporting events, this is what happened to the Winston Cup series at the same time.

 

[Runner]

I had no use for Mackey and feel like he ripped off the players in the end settlement of the Camel Tour. But it was not his doing that killed the R J Reynolds sponsorship. That belongs to the federal government when they passed a ruling tobacco could no longer sponsor sporting events, this is what happened to the Winston Cup series at the same time.

I didn't know about the tobacco ruling.. that makes sense. Winston Cup was a
great racing series, BTW!

i DO remember the PBT fiasco with Mackey... I think Jose Parica was one
of the few players who got payed... he wouldn't take no for an answer.
A lot of top pros believed Mackey's lies... he basically skipped with the
money. I do think that had an effect on corporate sponsors' willingness to
support pool.

 

[justnum]

If pool was looking for sponsors what market do you think would gain an advantage.

Of the tournaments and events I attend, the average pool hall goer/tournament attendee is closer to the older side male category.

The best non-billiards corps. might be people wanting to place parents in assisted living.

Pharmaceutical companies that want to promote drugs for older people, likely viagra or cialis.

If we were talking the pool room owner market, then it would be the beer companies.

Vaping companies are replacing traditional tobacco companies.

Vape companies have a good chance of converting traditional smokers at a tournament. Liquor companies might have a nice conversion chance.

Perhaps funeral equipment like caskets and tombstones, because its better to be prepared then shop during an emergency.

I plan to have a casket that requires my parts be arranged to fit in a 3 ft by 2 ft by 3 ft rectangular cube.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

People in the high place in Pool the League Owner, Promoters, Bar/Room Owner, and last Pro P)layer have eyes. If they don't see or get the difference in how REAL SPORTS OPERATE, Pool will just continue to stagnate.

NFL,NHL,MLB, NBA,NHRA, NASCAR, PGA, LPGA all have their acts, people get paid people make good money, and the organizing body do well.

These business only need be look at to see how they are different from Pool. It is Black & White, it is transparent, but Pool never changes.

They say you can teach stupid, or make someone stop smoking. I see no single group stepping up taking control of all of pool, to form something like the World or US POOL Players Association. Where they Scantioned tournaments, guarantee pay outs, collect dues, attract advertisers, and run out the bad element that has given Pool a Black Eye.

Will that happen, I bet not. Because there are a bunch of little fish each Runnig something like a league who want to be the big fish in their own little pond. Too many fish, each fighting to keep players in their pond.

Here is AZ the last time I saw the local Pool Newspaper in the Valley of the Sun (Phoenix) there were like 6 or more different league brands all want players in their league, all working differently.

Pool needs C.P.R., but don't get it, or how to perform it.

 

[franko]

Correct

IMO the last time pool was getting major sponsorship was during the
Camel Series pro tour.. they were putting up pretty decent money,
publicity was good, and most of the major players were involved.

Then Mackay killed the golden goose, making demands of RJ
Reynolds (Camel), not paying the players, etc. Joe Camel
pulled his pool sponsorship, and that was that.

I don't think any major sponsor will touch pool now... $.02

Sad but true , the one thing Camel did do after getting fed up with the Pro's is funnel $ into the amateurs Barbox.

 

[justnum]

With Hearn and Matchroom getting involved that may all change. Let's hope.

Changing the management packaging billiards can help.

The problem is upper management at a higher level.

The effort for olympic status is a huge undertaking. Unifying snooker, carom and pocket billiards is a huge step, and congratulations on that. But they are taking a top down approach. Its easy for them to demand "how things should be" for the IOC to take them seriously.

That approach doesn't match the situation. Right now there are independent leagues and tournaments that abide by different standards.

The next big challenge will be converging all the independent billiard groups and of course the prophetic "League Fee" which will save billiards.

The only problem is the people paying in know what they want out of it.

And if the big donor sponsors believed the direction of existing management was good, they would have backed it decades ago.

The reason upper management is trying to sell it to more people is because they are the only people who haven't figured out why to say no.

Too many cooks are in the kitchen and some cooks are better at other parts. Existing leadership is not supported because people don't believe them to be capable of making good decisions with new cash.

Despite the leadership and struggles they face, some people manage to hold on. Billiards has the potential but right now the leadership and management in place is not there. Last generation got close with the big money, but if you old boys couldn't pull the trigger then.

The chances of them pulling this off now is even worse. Its like watching someone hand in a late assignment after seeing what their friends did.
They sound more confident and have lots of energy the only problem is their credibility.

They had a taste of the big money and are doing anything to sound deserving of a second round. Yes I know the organization effort is a thankless job and likely not paid. But making demands on what other people have maintained and started is not the way to go.

Hearn and Matchroom I support. Its the older more established billiards organizations this post was directed at.

 

[garczar]

Changing the management packaging billiards can help.

The problem is upper management at a higher level.

The effort for olympic status is a huge undertaking. Unifying snooker, carom and pocket billiards is a huge step, and congratulations on that. But they are taking a top down approach. Its easy for them to demand "how things should be" for the IOC to take them seriously.

That approach doesn't match the situation. Right now there are independent leagues and tournaments that abide by different standards.

The next big challenge will be converging all the independent billiard groups and of course the prophetic "League Fee" which will save billiards.

The only problem is the people paying in know what they want out of it.

And if the big donor sponsors believed the direction of existing management was good, they would have backed it decades ago.

The reason upper management is trying to sell it to more people is because they are the only people who haven't figured out why to say no.

Too many cooks are in the kitchen and some cooks are better at other parts. Existing leadership is not supported because people don't believe them to be capable of making good decisions with new cash.

Despite the leadership and struggles they face, some people manage to hold on. Billiards has the potential but right now the leadership and management in place is not there. Last generation got close with the big money, but if you old boys couldn't pull the trigger then.

The chances of them pulling this off now is even worse. Its like watching someone hand in a late assignment after seeing what their friends did.
They sound more confident and have lots of energy the only problem is their credibility.

They had a taste of the big money and are doing anything to sound deserving of a second round. Yes I know the organization effort is a thankless job and likely not paid. But making demands on what other people have maintained and started is not the way to go.

Hearn and Matchroom I support. Its the older more established billiards organizations this post was directed at.

What are you calling "big money"? The PBT of the 90's brought "decent" (for pool anyway) money but it still wasn't even in PBA(bowling) territory. Look, promoters and financial backers in any sport look at ONE thing: MONEY. If they don't visualize a good return on their $$, they're out. All the good intentions in the world won't help if the bottom-line isn't there. What i like about B.Hearn buying the US Open is that he(Matchroom) has a stellar track record in making money at every turn. Heck, have you seen what even the dart players make? Granted its not PGA $$ but those dart guys are making good money and have tours and development systems. Things US pool sorely need. I'd like to see Hearn and Appleton get together and brainstorm a US pro tour. If it takes two Brits to get it done, so be it.

 

[justnum]

What are you calling "big money"? The PBT of the 90's brought "decent" (for pool anyway) money but it still wasn't even in PBA(bowling) territory. Look, promoters and financial backers in any sport look at ONE thing: MONEY. If they don't visualize a good return on their $$, they're out. All the good intentions in the world won't help if the bottom-line isn't there. What i like about B.Hearn buying the US Open is that he(Matchroom) has a stellar track record in making money at every turn. Heck, have you seen what even the dart players make? Granted its not PGA $$ but those dart guys are making good money and have tours and development systems. Things US pool sorely need. I'd like to see Hearn and Appleton get together and brainstorm a US pro tour. If it takes two Brits to get it done, so be it.

The IPT was big money. This forum board was wild with support.

It feels like billiard players are too trusting in other people.

Due to being priced out of roles in the billiard governing leadership, billiard players are not being managed well.

Does it make sense that a former pro be part of the governing leadership in billiards?
Some players make their own events or leagues, but beyond that there is a barrier.

The big money can afford to keep those people out.

The billiard dream lives but people tarnish it for others.

 

[garczar]

The IPT was big money. This forum board was wild with support.

It feels like billiard players are too trusting in other people.

Due to being priced out of roles in the billiard governing leadership, billiard players are not being managed well.

Does it make sense that a former pro be part of the governing leadership in billiards?
Some players make their own events or leagues, but beyond that there is a barrier.

The big money can afford to keep those people out.

The billiard dream lives but people tarnish it for others.

The IPT was bankrolled by a convicted scam artist. The players saw the $$$$ and went for it. Can't blame them but that deal was doomed from the get-go.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

b.s. on paying your dues. you can learn and get good by practicing and also playing others at any level. and if you gamble lock them up getting a big spot.


only a sucker pays his dues to get better. you can just as easily hire for some lessons to help you out.

If you want to be good at something & get paid well think GOLF, think PGA GOLF. Close to Poo,l you hit small white ball with stick into hole, what a little hit white ball with stick again into hole.