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psmith6100

psmith6100

Marine, IL
Silver Member
Just curious on what others thought..... Tonight at my local league which is an in house league the team i was playing was also playing a make up match at another table . During that match one of there shooters broke dry and scratched meaning the next shooter must shoot from the kitchen... however it was a new player and he thought he had ball in hand the original shooter allowed him to do so then told him that it was wrong, that he should have shot from in the kitchen and that he could either take ball in hand or they could start over and rebreak the rack. They chose to rebreak the rack in which the original breaker broke again and in doing so made the 8 on the break and scratched, they decided that with gentlemens rules that the breaker should be allowed to try again (keeping in mind that this is a league where you play every shooter one time not a race) in doing so i feel that the other players in the league (including myself) are being cheated bc i would love the oppurtunity to break three times to count for one game.. just kind of curious how the rest of the az communites take on it is.(i have taken it up with the league operator and he is going to make a decision but as you can imagine when i said something to the players involved it turned into a sh*t storm )normally i wouldnt care but i feel that in a league one guy taking a shot like that at a new player that didnt know better than to allow him to "cheat" is ridiculous and is also cheating the other 40 players in the league...sorry so long had to vent still rather pissed just a bad night lol
 
psmith6100 said:
Just curious on what others thought..... Tonight at my local league which is an in house league the team i was playing was also playing a make up match at another table . During that match one of there shooters broke dry and scratched meaning the next shooter must shoot from the kitchen... however it was a new player and he thought he had ball in hand the original shooter allowed him to do so then told him that it was wrong, that he should have shot from in the kitchen and that he could either take ball in hand or they could start over and rebreak the rack. They chose to rebreak the rack in which the original breaker broke again and in doing so made the 8 on the break and scratched, they decided that with gentlemens rules that the breaker should be allowed to try again (keeping in mind that this is a league where you play every shooter one time not a race) in doing so i feel that the other players in the league (including myself) are being cheated bc i would love the oppurtunity to break three times to count for one game.. just kind of curious how the rest of the az communites take on it is.(i have taken it up with the league operator and he is going to make a decision but as you can imagine when i said something to the players involved it turned into a sh*t storm )normally i wouldnt care but i feel that in a league one guy taking a shot like that at a new player that didnt know better than to allow him to "cheat" is ridiculous and is also cheating the other 40 players in the league...sorry so long had to vent still rather pissed just a bad night lol
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If he was truely a gentalman or even a decent guy he would have told a new player when he placed the ball before he even shot that the rule was kitchen off of a scratch on the break. He was also very afraid of your new player in my estimation.
 
thanks quadrary glad to know that im not crazy lol ur post helps to let the steam out a lil bit lol just really seemed to me that someone tried to make a move on someone who didnt know better and got mad bc someone on the outside caught'em and said something
 
psmith6100 said:
thanks quadrary glad to know that im not crazy lol ur post helps to let the steam out a lil bit lol just really seemed to me that someone tried to make a move on someone who didnt know better and got mad bc someone on the outside caught'em and said something
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i play a couple leagues and had a similar thing happen to me in a qualifier tournament in an apa league. I was playing a 7 and was a 6 at the time and by agreement we were playing call pocket on 8. He was up 3 to 1 and broke dry i ran the rack to the 8 and had to play the 8 to rail and then back and carom offr one of his balls to the pocket it jawed and kicked out.
He then played a safe and just missed it just enough to leave me a paper thin cut on the eight from about 6 inches off the long rail at the first diamond to the opposite corner. i called the shot and loaded up the bottom inside to avoid the scrach in the corner and made the shot. He gets up and yells great shot to bad you didnt mark your pocket you lose. I was fuming and said are you so afraid of me you need to take a game like that? Long story short he broke dry on his hill game i ran out then had back to back break and runs and left him standing there watching his team get put out. I did mark every pocket after that.
 
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hmmm

If you are playing by the "old" rules of BIH in the kitchen (BCA is now BIH anywhere) after a scratch on break, then the rule is as follows;

If the player has the BIH and puts the cue ball past the headstring, it is the non shooting players responsiblity to tell him he is over the "line". If he (non-shooter) says nothing, than it is assumed it was a legal shot, and there is no recourse.

Thus, bottom line, the non shooter had to warm the shooter first that the cb was over the line, and then if the shooter took the shot, it would be a foul then because he was first warned.

The guy (original breaker) that "lied" about the foul, should forfeit the game, whether or not he lied, but the fact he was wrong and the balls were then reracked, should end this right now. Next time he won't spout off about the rules when he is just guessing and he won't let someone shoot when outside the kitchen..... yeah, its harsh, but that is how folks will NEVER make that mistake again....
 
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1. New players are responsible for knowing the rules too.
2. Opponents are not responsible for educating opponents.
3. The rules of the game should have been applied after the foul. Not a rebreak.
4. Breaking player who scratches loses.
5. Break 3 never should have ever occurred.
 
Im the LO for this league & some details were left out...
Our league is a ball count league not wins/loses!
Player A breaks- pockets 2 solids & scratches, returns to table gets a drink & turns around...
Player B (new player)- shoots a solid in with cue ball positioned outside of kitchen... (this IS a foul, technically)
Player A- tells Player B thats a foul, I have BIH with only 4 balls to pocket on a wide open table- (player a is going to win this game 8-0 98% of time) & offers to rebreak & they agree...
Player A- rebreaks, pockets 8 & scratches- resulting in a 0-8 loss...
Player B's Captain agreed that since Player A didnt take an 8-0 win, its the gentlemanly thing to not accept an 8-0 win themself & suggest game 3 & whatever hapns, hapns...
Player A- breaks 3rd rack & when games over- Player B 8, Player A 6...

As League Operators- we stand by the "Gentlemans Rule" & score match as it ended.
 
thanks all for your response i was annoyed last night and was just more venting on here to keep from being mad in the end i really dont care what ever the zimm decides is good with me and he knows that.... however double d in a league every game every other team plays does affect everyone else in the league by the final count for that season its not a matter of me growing up it is a matter of people following rules that have already been set i understand that things happen and i dont expect anything crazy to happen i was more just wanting the players that did this to know better and to not do it the next time.
 
i dont feel either rerack should have happened i have walked up to the table with the same player before and accidently touched the cueball not even enough for it to move and he took his ball in hand and ran me out ..but that is my mistake and i dont fault him for taking it... the point being is that the rules are there for a reason i dont think the man running the league took the time to type them out and to give every team a binder with them so that you can make up your own......2nd of all if you take the rerack (which is wrong) and you mess up that is your fault for tempting fate be a man take your medicine and walk away...
 
last thing i am posting dd me and you are just going to have to agree to disagree like i said i stand by what the operator decided on it is his league not mine
 
Zims Rack said:
Im the LO for this league & some details were left out...
Our league is a ball count league not wins/loses!
Player A breaks- pockets 2 solids & scratches, returns to table gets a drink & turns around...
Player B (new player)- shoots a solid in with cue ball positioned outside of kitchen... (this IS a foul, technically)
Player A- tells Player B thats a foul, I have BIH with only 4 balls to pocket on a wide open table- (player a is going to win this game 8-0 98% of time) & offers to rebreak & they agree...
Player A- rebreaks, pockets 8 & scratches- resulting in a 0-8 loss...
Player B's Captain agreed that since Player A didnt take an 8-0 win, its the gentlemanly thing to not accept an 8-0 win themself & suggest game 3 & whatever hapns, hapns...
Player A- breaks 3rd rack & when games over- Player B 8, Player A 6...

As League Operators- we stand by the "Gentlemans Rule" & score match as it ended.
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I think your league is very civilized...I like the way it was handled by
you and the two players.
 
pt109 said:
I think your league is very civilized...I like the way it was handled by
you and the two players.
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Thank you very much. Our league is very competitive with all hcp levels & rarely have any incedents that the black/white rules dont cover.
 
DoubleD said:
.

Yeah, maybe every game affects every person a bit. The games you should be concerned about, tho, are yours. If you win enough, by enough, you win the league. If you don't win, your fault.

dld
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I totally agree with the OP and the above statement is BS. If the OP loses (or wins the league for that matter) the league by one ball and it is a result of the games in question, then an injustice has been committed.

I also agree with the OP, neither game should have been a re-racked.

Although I believe all parties had good intentions, including Zimm, the rules are the rules and should apply equally for all parties. This isn't a transaction between two parties, it affects the whole league.

That's my 2 cents.
 
Zims Rack said:
Im the LO for this league & some details were left out...
Our league is a ball count league not wins/loses!
Player A breaks- pockets 2 solids & scratches, returns to table gets a drink & turns around...
Player B (new player)- shoots a solid in with cue ball positioned outside of kitchen... (this IS a foul, technically)
Player A- tells Player B thats a foul, I have BIH with only 4 balls to pocket on a wide open table- (player a is going to win this game 8-0 98% of time) & offers to rebreak & they agree...
Player A- rebreaks, pockets 8 & scratches- resulting in a 0-8 loss...
Player B's Captain agreed that since Player A didnt take an 8-0 win, its the gentlemanly thing to not accept an 8-0 win themself & suggest game 3 & whatever hapns, hapns...
Player A- breaks 3rd rack & when games over- Player B 8, Player A 6...

As League Operators- we stand by the "Gentlemans Rule" & score match as it ended.
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I agree that this was the way to do things.
 
If that is the way it was agreed on, that is the way it is. My question is - How come no one on the new shooters team mentioned his BIH mistake before he shot? I have made that same mistake and they were so busy yelling that I almost had a heart attack, John
 
brokenarrowjbe said:
If that is the way it was agreed on, that is the way it is. My question is - How come no one on the new shooters team mentioned his BIH mistake before he shot? I have made that same mistake and they were so busy yelling that I almost had a heart attack, John
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man broken arrow where were you a couple days ago before i agreed to let this situation drop i would have loved to have brought that up ...honestly i never even thought of that lol
 
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