Pool Movie shot selection and ESPN

hang-the-9

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The 2 may not seem related... but after re-watching Poolhall Junkies I think they may be.

Issue we complain about - pool has no respect as a sport, very little TV or other media coverage. I think that it's because pool, when played right, looks boring and easy to most people. Take your average mid 40s, beer-gut balding t-shirt wearing Bud-swilling bar pool player. He flips to ESPN45 where they are featuring a full straight pool set. For 2 hours he watches one guy make 150 easy shots. Big deal. Those guys aren't pros he thinks, why I make 7-bank jump carom shots all the time, well, maybe one in a 1,000 but he can't make a single shot like that. Screw this, I'm watching Baywatch. There was a BD article I think about this a few years back.

So I watch Poolhall Junkies again. 80% of the shots they show are banks. This is what the non-pool world thinks of great pool, if you are good, you go out and bank bank bank, maybe do a masse or jump shot. The writer/director of the movie thought that if he showed how good players actually play, no-one would think they were such high-level hustlers. This is why the only pool you can see now are women (who most men would watch if they showed a knitting contest, ooo look it's a woman.. drool drool) and trick-shots, which is how 95% of America views "good" pool.

I think the only way to drive pool as a sport is to educate the largest amount of people as to what good pool really is, and to get them appreciating the many many great subtleties, shot selection, and thinking that makes up a pool game. Next time you see a couple of guys shooting pool with a black cuetec thinking making 2 in a row is an A player, and playing 9-ball by randomly whacking things toward the 9, you should take the time to show them what position and speed control can do for a game, instead of just making jokes about them with your pool buddies.

Thanks for the rant :)
 
hang-the-9 said:
The 2 may not seem related... but after re-watching Poolhall Junkies I think they may be.

Issue we complain about - pool has no respect as a sport, very little TV or other media coverage. I think that it's because pool, when played right, looks boring and easy to most people. Take your average mid 40s, beer-gut balding t-shirt wearing Bud-swilling bar pool player. He flips to ESPN45 where they are featuring a full straight pool set. For 2 hours he watches one guy make 150 easy shots. Big deal. Those guys aren't pros he thinks, why I make 7-bank jump carom shots all the time, well, maybe one in a 1,000 but he can't make a single shot like that. Screw this, I'm watching Baywatch. There was a BD article I think about this a few years back.

So I watch Poolhall Junkies again. 80% of the shots they show are banks. This is what the non-pool world thinks of great pool, if you are good, you go out and bank bank bank, maybe do a masse or jump shot. The writer/director of the movie thought that if he showed how good players actually play, no-one would think they were such high-level hustlers. This is why the only pool you can see now are women (who most men would watch if they showed a knitting contest, ooo look it's a woman.. drool drool) and trick-shots, which is how 95% of America views "good" pool.

I think the only way to drive pool as a sport is to educate the largest amount of people as to what good pool really is, and to get them appreciating the many many great subtleties, shot selection, and thinking that makes up a pool game. Next time you see a couple of guys shooting pool with a black cuetec thinking making 2 in a row is an A player, and playing 9-ball by randomly whacking things toward the 9, you should take the time to show them what position and speed control can do for a game, instead of just making jokes about them with your pool buddies.

Thanks for the rant :)
Click to expand...

I disagree.

We do need to educate people, but the masses aren't so dumb as to think that they can run 150 balls. Most people claim a high run of 3-4 balls, 150 is beyond comprehension no matter how it is done. Besides pool on tv is almost entirely 9 ball, and people realize that they haven't a chance at running a rack regardless of how easy it looks.

As far as growing the sport, I think the industry needs to be educated as much as the masses.

A little market research is in order. We need to find out who our demographic is, what they like, what they don't like and what draws their attention. What game would they like to watch on television? Is it 9 ball? Possibly. 10 ball? most don't even know what that is. 8 ball? Most likely.

Everyone plays pool, I only practice on certain days because any other day the places I frequent are too packed to concentrate. And it isn't the same people every time. There are familiar faces but a lot of people play pool. Nobody can tell me that there isn't a market for the game. There is. The problem is that it hasn't been properly exploited due to a variety of reasons.

I still maintain the "build it and they will come" approach will never work for anything. I don't know about else where but, pro tournaments are never advertised outside of pool rooms around here, some times not even there. But regardless of the advertising the general public isn't familiar with the big names of pool, so even if it is advertised they may not show up due to the fact that they don't know who they are watching. And lets face it only the fanatics will watch a sport regardless of who is playing, and the rabid fans aren't in the majority for any sport as far as I am aware.

I don't claim to have any answers, it's just my humble opinion.
 
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I've said this for a long time. No one knows what good pool is outside of the players. Everyone thinks there good at it. Do you kow how many times in my 20 years I've played against people who insist how good they are because they can make 3 or 4 balls in a row . Then you play them and start running tables and they look stuned because they had no idea. In all other sports we look at the pro's and understand what good is but not in pool. Because people see it as a simple game they have no idea how much practice and dedication it takes to play it at a high level.
 
Exposure to sports / games is what makes them popular to a large degree along with the ability to enjoy performing them, even if only at a novice level.

Once again take for example bowling. Exposure to the game is a natural. A guy and girl go on a date and decide to go bowling. Within one or two attempts they are both at least able to knock down pins with a REAL chance to see themselves make a strike.

Since it is relatively easy to knock down pins and perhaps strike, it even draws kids, families, couples. The resulting atmosphere is an open, kind of movie going experience for all.

Golf is another, and different example. Golf is an outdoor game where spectators and playerscan enjoy the environment without feeling inhibited. Even if they don't perform well, wives and girlfriends are with their men enjoying a day outdoors. Further, they actually can get a feel of golf in another family type environment with mini-golf, which provides yet another form of exposure to the game.

Baseball, while worlds apart from the previous examples, still attracts huge TV and novice involvement. Its both an outdoor game, a family event, and just about anyone can catch a ball in a glove (which is an addictive feeling) as well as swing a bat.

Now take pool. It comes from a seedy past. It certainly is intimidating to walk into a pool room as well. You don't really have a great deal of "your own space" while playing. When I had my poolroom, it was obvious to see newcomers lost for a place to stand, what to hold, or how to act when it wasn't their turn.

Newcomers often came in slightly larger groups also. Maybe, double dates trying it out. Perhaps for the extra moral support. They stood between tables holding the shaft of the sick with two hands, balancing on the butt end placed on the floor. When it was their turn, they were so uncomfortable that they were happy to wail at a shot quickly just to get back to trying to find a space to stand in.

Now, add to that, the fact that playing the game itself,for the most part is very frustrating to a beginner. Did you ever try playing opposite handed? Try it, maybe while playing with your eyes closed, which is about the same as a newbie who has no idea where to hit the OB or CB. It won't be long before you get a feel for how most new to the game get christened. Nothing like bowling where they are knocking down pins right away.

How long would most of us play with a Rubic's Cube before we wanted to throw it through a window?

Unlike miniature golf, the idea isn't to laugh and giggle amongst yourselves when the ball bounce off the Windmill. Rather, you stand there, uncomfortable, holding the stick, feeling people around you look at you like you don't have a clue what your are doing. Its just not a comfortable thing for most to do.

And these days you add to that, ridiculously loud intimidating garbage music and the atmosphere becomes even less appealing to neophytes. With so many other choices of things to do, its no wonder to me that pool is much less popular than other sports.

The only chance is to create better, friendlier atmospheres for people so they can be given half a chance at being comfortable playing.

I always thought a poolroom in an indoor shopping mall, well lit with lots of room and no off the wall ( I use the term loosly) music blaring, would offer a more inviting atmosphere. Maybe even a nice pizza area for folks to come in for a bite and a quick look at folks playing.
 
I don't think TV will ever be the prominent venue for this sport. Most of the best pool IMO is games other than 9ball and 7ball. The internet will be the future for great pool.In fact I'm hoping for the day that TV dissapears. I'm flat tired of it. Don:cool:
 
hang-the-9 said:
The 2 may not seem related... but after re-watching Poolhall Junkies I think they may be.

Issue we complain about - pool has no respect as a sport, very little TV or other media coverage. I think that it's because pool, when played right, looks boring and easy to most people. Take your average mid 40s, beer-gut balding t-shirt wearing Bud-swilling bar pool player. He flips to ESPN45 where they are featuring a full straight pool set. For 2 hours he watches one guy make 150 easy shots. Big deal. Those guys aren't pros he thinks, why I make 7-bank jump carom shots all the time, well, maybe one in a 1,000 but he can't make a single shot like that. Screw this, I'm watching Baywatch. There was a BD article I think about this a few years back.

So I watch Poolhall Junkies again. 80% of the shots they show are banks. This is what the non-pool world thinks of great pool, if you are good, you go out and bank bank bank, maybe do a masse or jump shot. The writer/director of the movie thought that if he showed how good players actually play, no-one would think they were such high-level hustlers. This is why the only pool you can see now are women (who most men would watch if they showed a knitting contest, ooo look it's a woman.. drool drool) and trick-shots, which is how 95% of America views "good" pool.

I think the only way to drive pool as a sport is to educate the largest amount of people as to what good pool really is, and to get them appreciating the many many great subtleties, shot selection, and thinking that makes up a pool game. Next time you see a couple of guys shooting pool with a black cuetec thinking making 2 in a row is an A player, and playing 9-ball by randomly whacking things toward the 9, you should take the time to show them what position and speed control can do for a game, instead of just making jokes about them with your pool buddies.

Thanks for the rant :)
Click to expand...
I agree with your point regarding good pool as boring to watch for the masses of non-pool players. I thought it was interesting that TCOM starts by defining 9 ball as "The player can shoot eight trick shots in a row...blow the 9 and lose. On the other hand...the player can get the 9 in on the break...if the balls spread right, and win. Which is to say that luck
plays a part in 9-ball. But for some players...luck itself is an art."

The writers of TCOM knew there was more financial gain by targeting the average recreational player/ banger (the masses) and not the students and professionals of the game. Trick shots are sexy, playing good position, not so much.

After the movie, the masses (I was one of them) flew to the bars and pool halls getting lucky on position and showing off slamming bank shots to "Werewolves of London" feeling as if they could spot Vincent the five. Instant gratification! Just like knocking down a few pins or getting a strike in bowling, it's FUN and it looks COOL! Everyone wanted to play like Vincent. Defense? That wasn't in the movie, plus heroes don't hook people, they make 6 foot jumps in a single bound. "And his hair was perfect." Damn, I can hear it now.

Educating the masses about proper fundamentals of pool is not entertaining. Pool is a game and games are about bringing people together to have FUN. TCOM was successful in that regard and inspired a few of us bangers to get into the finer aspects of the game. And for that, TCOM will always be a favorite of mine. A lot of us didn't grow up with tables, so banging in bars was our path to discovering one of the greatest games man invented.

Pool will never be as popular as golf or even poker, until it becomes part of a marketable lifestyle that the masses are willing to buy into. And I'm holding my breath for the next TCOM, because unfortunately that's what it will take.

Mike<------hair is still perfect:D
 
I have heard it said that they wont watch pool on TV because of the 5 minute safety battles. I like to see that because these guys kick like nobody else in the world. The 7 ball matches are better to watch because they are forced to make shots instead of being defensive.
 
hang-the-9 said:
The 2 may not seem related... but after re-watching Poolhall Junkies I think they may be.

Thanks for the rant :)
Click to expand...

Just my personal opinion and with no disrespect intended, but IMHO, PHJ was one of the worst pool-related movies of all time and I'm actually glad relatively few people have seen it.

But as for getting masses interested in watching pool matches...I am not optimistic because ACTIVE pool players don't seem to be interested in watching.

Just look at the stands of the TV matches to see a LOT of emply seats most of the time...except possibly for the finals.

There are reported to be some 40 million Americans who play pool with some frequency but the BCA event gets viewed by only about a half million households. Even if there are 2 active players per household (doubtful) then only 1 million out of 40 million active players bother to watch one of the few "major" tournaments.

There are a jillion threads on this subject but briefly...

1. Pool players seem far more interested in playing than watching others play.

2. To conform to TV time limits, most matches are so heavily edited...with numerous racks cut down to some guy dropping a two foot hanger on the 9 Ball...and many racks edited out altogether.

I am an AVID tv pool match watcher but they're about to loose me too because such "short attention span" TV drives me nuts. I'd rather pay a few bucks to buy a video or better yet...attend as many pro tour stops as I can.

Unless and until there is a LEAGUE or a SINGLE PRO TOUR (like the PGA) and LIVE broadcasts, our sport will continue to languish as a "tape delay" ESPN event...like dear hunting, bass fishing and lumberjacking (which is actually pretty fun to watch.) (-:

LIVE is the key! A huge portion of the drama is gone when you know who won.

Just my $0.02.

Regards,
Jim
 
hang-the-9 said:
The 2 may not seem related... but after re-watching Poolhall Junkies I think they may be.

Issue we complain about - pool has no respect as a sport, very little TV or other media coverage. I think that it's because pool, when played right, looks boring and easy to most people. Take your average mid 40s, beer-gut balding t-shirt wearing Bud-swilling bar pool player. He flips to ESPN45 where they are featuring a full straight pool set. For 2 hours he watches one guy make 150 easy shots. Big deal. Those guys aren't pros he thinks, why I make 7-bank jump carom shots all the time, well, maybe one in a 1,000 but he can't make a single shot like that. Screw this, I'm watching Baywatch. There was a BD article I think about this a few years back.

So I watch Poolhall Junkies again. 80% of the shots they show are banks. This is what the non-pool world thinks of great pool, if you are good, you go out and bank bank bank, maybe do a masse or jump shot. The writer/director of the movie thought that if he showed how good players actually play, no-one would think they were such high-level hustlers. This is why the only pool you can see now are women (who most men would watch if they showed a knitting contest, ooo look it's a woman.. drool drool) and trick-shots, which is how 95% of America views "good" pool.

I think the only way to drive pool as a sport is to educate the largest amount of people as to what good pool really is, and to get them appreciating the many many great subtleties, shot selection, and thinking that makes up a pool game. Next time you see a couple of guys shooting pool with a black cuetec thinking making 2 in a row is an A player, and playing 9-ball by randomly whacking things toward the 9, you should take the time to show them what position and speed control can do for a game, instead of just making jokes about them with your pool buddies.

Thanks for the rant :)
Click to expand...
Lol. I've tried this, but some guys just don't want to learn the right way to play pool. These are the same guys that take their cues and bang the tips into the ground 'cause they like a flat tip! To them part of the fun is banging the balls around without having to think too much about it. When you start to try to explain thinking, strategy, and pattern play they get upset and say "c'mon you're taking too long, shoot fast!".

I agree with you about what gets broadcast on cable. I mean the WPBA is nice and everything, but I'm tired of only being able to watch the women or trick shot competitions. I want to see some really good mens matches already! On that topic, the World Pool Championship final will air Tuesday at 3pm on CSN 37.
 
Pool is not growing. Simple as that. It's been around for 100 years and has been as big as it will ever be. It's a hobby for most , a minor past time for many and a career for few.

Love it for what it is , a great game. Why does everyone want it grow anyway , so you can wait 2 hours for a table ? Pay $20 an hour to play ? Spend all night bumping elbows with yuppies talking about thier portfolios at the next table ?

I like going to my local house , playing serious pool for cheap when ever I want being surrounded by people who feel exactly like I do. :)
 
RRfireblade said:
Pool is not growing. Simple as that. It's been around for 100 years and has been as big as it will ever be. It's a hobby for most , a minor past time for many and a career for few.

Love it for what it is , a great game. Why does everyone want it grow anyway , so you can wait 2 hours for a table ? Pay $20 an hour to play ? Spend all night bumping elbows with yuppies talking about thier portfolios at the next table ?

I like going to my local house , playing serious pool for cheap when ever I want being surrounded by people who feel exactly like I do. :)
Click to expand...
Yeah you're right man. Two of the oldest pool halls in my city will be closing down soon, Marie's Golden Cue, and The Chicago Billiard Cafe. I'm lucky in the fact that I never really frequented those places. And hopefully Chris' will never close down. That would be quite a blow to pool in my town if it did.
 
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