Pool Room or Bars with Pool Tables

[nfty9er]

You are not very clear or stupid

Yes, the honest truth is exactly what most have said. The real pool room has been extinct for many years. A pool table takes up about 50 sq ft plus the area for stroking the cue. Lease space basically cost from 10 to 20 sq ft. The math doesn't add up. A pool room is a foolish investment. Owning the land and operating a pool room is a labor of love as mentioned by one poster. Yes the real pool room is very scarce today.

If the sports bars would plan a separte section for serious playing then a real room could become a reality today. It's all a shame because pool is a real sport of talent and those talanted players don't have many good rooms to play in..

The pool rooms that do exsist today if the owners and managers would at least hire experienced help that would help. If the loud music was better controlled that would help. What we do have today many establishments are poorly operated.. It keeps coming back to experience and knowledge and having an honest concern for the sport as being a sport. ALL this would help.

Are you saying lease space is 10 to 20 dollars a square ft. Are you smoking pot. That may be that in Manhattan but i doubt it is anywhere else. If you meant 10 to 20 cents, your nuts, nothing is that cheap. Please be a little clearer. You are living in the past. I can name a dozen rooms that are controlled by knowledgeable experienced people and thats just in my area. Quit spouting lies you lonely old man.

 

[nfty9er]

Think of what your saying

Owning the building is a fallacy. You are still in a sense paying rent for the building in that you could have it rented out to someone else and would be collecting rent. Why would I want to take a 4500 sq ft building I'm getting $15. sq. ft for and occupy it myself maybe not making any more at the bottom line then I make now sitting home without all the other expenses and headaches of running the pool room. Other then no rent you still have to pay taxes electric insurance and pay help plus if the roof leaks you have to fix it as well as pay a mortgage if you don't own it free and clear. Still not the best deal, just not enough money to be made, not today.

I remember a friend of mine that owned a bowling alley told me when all was said and done all he saw as profit was what he made in the bar. Like a pool room but even more so a bowling alley really need a lot of room and what it produces just may not justify it's existence. He finally sold the land for like five million and retired. It was ridicules he used to put like 90 hours a week in the place for what was essentially nothing. His wife wanted to burn the place down.

First of all no pool room is going to pay 15 bucks a sq. ft. if they do they are nuts. You obvisouly would be better off collecting that kind of money if you, can but if I paid that kind of money it would cost me $105,000 a month. That would be crazy. 3500 a day nut in rent only. Do not think so. Your numbers are skewed. If I could buy my building my monthly payments would go down, my equity would be constantly going up. It is just like owning your own home, much better than renting isn't it. Your problem is using that high sq. ft. fallacy. Also I could deduct mortgage interest and rent as I would rent it to my kids. lol

 

[macguy]

First of all no pool room is going to pay 15 bucks a sq. ft. if they do they are nuts. You obvisouly would be better off collecting that kind of money if you, can but if I paid that kind of money it would cost me $105,000 a month. That would be crazy. 3500 a day nut in rent only. Do not think so. Your numbers are skewed. If I could buy my building my monthly payments would go down, my equity would be constantly going up. It is just like owning your own home, much better than renting isn't it. Your problem is using that high sq. ft. fallacy. Also I could deduct mortgage interest and rent as I would rent it to my kids. lol

I was referring to a building I own and I get $15.00 a sq. foot. That's not bad around here and about what you would expect to pay or more. I collect $67,500 annually in rent minus about $11,000 in taxes and $4000 for ins. for a approximate net of $52,500 and few repairs now and then. I've owned the building for years and have no mortgage. Why would I want to sit there running a pool room, for me it is better to just rent out the building.

In another post you mentioned rents in New York read below:
NEW YORK, NY, May 11, 2005 – Retail rents for major corridors Downtown and Northern Manhattan surged in the last six months with asking rents for ground floor space climbing 45% for a major Downtown corridor and 38% in Northern Manhattan, according to The Real Estate Board of New York’s (REBNY) Spring Retail Report.

The retail corridor on Broadway between Battery Park and Chambers Street saw the average asking rent for ground floor space rise 45% to $126 per square foot, while SoHo’s main strip, Broadway between Houston and Broome, had a rent surge of 31% to $212 per square foot. The median asking rent for the Broadway corridor in SoHo rose 46% to $226.

 

[macguy]

Are you saying lease space is 10 to 20 dollars a square ft. Are you smoking pot. That may be that in Manhattan but i doubt it is anywhere else. If you meant 10 to 20 cents, your nuts, nothing is that cheap. Please be a little clearer. You are living in the past. I can name a dozen rooms that are controlled by knowledgeable experienced people and thats just in my area. Quit spouting lies you lonely old man.

What are you talking about here are examples right where you live.
http://www.loopnet.com/looplink/wilsonbros/searchresults.aspx?SearchType=FL&name=/broker/wilsonbros

 

[Purdman]

Gomer don't have a heart attack tonite ok..

No Wonderboy, no heart attack yet. Just a beautiful wife to go home to. I gotta work for a living. Where do you live? I am in Northern Virginia and travel quite a bit. I will be in Tennessee in April. Would love to play you a few sets of anything you wish to play. If you are ever in the area, come on by my place and we can play without any loud music or other distractions. The pleasure will be all mine. I often have AZB players over when they are in he area. Welcomed them from California, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Canada, Phoenix, where ever. Come on down. Don't be shy.
Gomer Purdman

 

[zeeder]

Sorry Gommer,,

I'm looking for the more serious attitudes that can actually make a diifference and have something to really say. If 2 paragraphs are too much for people to handle than I feel sorry for our future. Maybe you can't make a pool room work but 10,000 others can and do have the experience and knowledge and willingness and brains. Thats the problem, not many really care. Thats exactly what the problem is.. Thats oK.. There are doers and there are those who do nothing. I have a different type of attitude because I do care. You seem to be ok and accept that type of entertainment room.. I don't. But then again i'm not the amatuer player either. This is a site for pool players isn't it??

First things first, an example of the type of pool room you're talking about is "The Billiard Bullpen" in Collinsville, IL run by Mark Wilson. There's no loud music, no alcohol, excellent equipment and you couldn't ask for a more knowledgeable staff.

That being said, it's not that people can't read two paragraphs. It's that people don't want to read two poorly constructed rambling run-on paragraphs. I think that if you were able to better articulate your views you'd get better responses.

Lastly, I agree with you about the dual establishment. I like to fantasize about owning my own pool hall and my idea is to make one part of it a club/bar/pool area and a seperate, sound insullated, area ideal for serious players, leagues, tournaments, etc. I know it's a pipe dream and will probably never happen but we've got to dream about something...lol.

 

[whiteoak]

Belly Up Friend!

Sorry Gommer,,

I'm looking for the more serious attitudes that can actually make a diifference and have something to really say. If 2 paragraphs are too much for people to handle than I feel sorry for our future. Maybe you can't make a pool room work but 10,000 others can and do have the experience and knowledge and willingness and brains. Thats the problem, not many really care. Thats exactly what the problem is.. Thats oK.. There are doers and there are those who do nothing. I have a different type of attitude because I do care. You seem to be ok and accept that type of entertainment room.. I don't. But then again i'm not the amatuer player either. This is a site for pool players isn't it??

* Pretty strong words there to a good guy.Since you obviously ave strong feelings about this and feel SOMEONE needs to do something about it you need to put your money,motivational skills(?) where your typing hand is and open such a room yourself.Thats a serious attitude.M.S.

 

[rackmsuckr]

Straight pool is my best game. I was a 100 ball runner when being 16.

I do have a plan for the very best pool room in the country that would make the investors millions no matter if the pool room made it or not.

A strip mall,, a mini mall.. Purchasing the land and developing that land into a set of mini malls. Pre qualifing tenents before submittiing plan. Targeting tennents like UPS/fedex/USPS,,, etc etc etc... Build to suit.. I have that experience. I was a project super and worked for large land developers..

Anyway Purchase/develope/build/lease out retail/offiice space in a marketed researched project in an area that has a past proven positive growth of a projected percentage set by the marketed research team.

Get commited tennents before plans are submitted. Build to suit.

Build the best pool room in the country.. Thats a plan that if completed within budget would be basically a fool proof way or making 10's of milliions in equity growth and future wealth all while housiing the country's best pool room. Too much to write about.

KT has envisioned building huge IPT venues around the country just for IPT events and having them vacant until the next one. Maybe you can sweet talk him to run a few of those in the off-season.

We used to have a great hall here in Seattle called the 211 - wood floors (killed your feet during marathon sessions, and the sound of a ball or cue falling on the floor, ay yie yie!), a big snooker table with a bunch of regulars playing golf, no whistling rules (Vivian would have a tough time!), cruddy food and bathroom, and the phone was in an old wood phone booth. Originally on 2nd Avenue downtown, you took a creaky elevator. I always felt you could get some kind of disease off the walls of it! When it moved to the Belltown area, you walked up a bunch of stairs. Lots of good times at both places.

Then we got Jillian's which is the yuppie crowd and has gone way downhill (I used to house pro there), and now Parlor Billiards. They both have private rooms, but still geared for the recreational player. I think Parlor will have some great tournaments. Not sure about the lighting though for tournaments..all that glass is hard to see with sunlight coming through. Yes, we do get some sunlight in Seattle!

 

[Raodwarior]

Well the room you all want to see is sitting here right now outside of Erie,PA. No bar, resonable music when its played and what we like to think is the best playing conditions in the area. Also, a full proshop as well as onsite repair and instruction.

I look forward to seeing all the purists on here real soon.

 

[nfty9er]

Those examples are in error

What are you talking about here are examples right where you live.
http://www.loopnet.com/looplink/wilsonbros/searchresults.aspx?SearchType=FL&name=/broker/wilsonbros

No property in this town rents for that. I do not know where they got those numbers, but the decimal point has to be wrong. How would you explain my rent of somewhere over a buck a sq. ft. right next to one of those listed.
They are now construcinng a Home Depot and various space is being listed to lease near it and the center, all new buildings, rent will be 2.50 to 3.00 a sq. ft. I do not know how to download a link to this page so just go to
santacruzsentinel.com and go to rentals and commerical rentals and look at the prices. You will be shocked how far off your examples are. This is not New York.

 

[nfty9er]

Of course not

I was referring to a building I own and I get $15.00 a sq. foot. That's not bad around here and about what you would expect to pay or more. I collect $67,500 annually in rent minus about $11,000 in taxes and $4000 for ins. for a approximate net of $52,500 and few repairs now and then. I've owned the building for years and have no mortgage. Why would I want to sit there running a pool room, for me it is better to just rent out the building.

In another post you mentioned rents in New York read below:
NEW YORK, NY, May 11, 2005 – Retail rents for major corridors Downtown and Northern Manhattan surged in the last six months with asking rents for ground floor space climbing 45% for a major Downtown corridor and 38% in Northern Manhattan, according to The Real Estate Board of New York’s (REBNY) Spring Retail Report.

The retail corridor on Broadway between Battery Park and Chambers Street saw the average asking rent for ground floor space rise 45% to $126 per square foot, while SoHo’s main strip, Broadway between Houston and Broome, had a rent surge of 31% to $212 per square foot. The median asking rent for the Broadway corridor in SoHo rose 46% to $226.

That was not the scenario. Of course in your situation you don't want to do that, but people who do will not or cannot pay that kind of money. You cannot run a pool room for that so why bother. I pay just over a buck, different situation wouldn't you say. I would buy my building in a heartbeat if my landlord gave me the chance. There is a room in southern california doing that right now,, he has owned it for 12 years now he is finally biuying it, a dream come true. I talked to him at the Reno Open and is going to pay less a month and earn more in the long run,, plus own the building. But he ain't paying no 15 a sq. foot.

 

[macguy]

No property in this town rents for that. I do not know where they got those numbers, but the decimal point has to be wrong. How would you explain my rent of somewhere over a buck a sq. ft. right next to one of those listed.
They are now construcinng a Home Depot and various space is being listed to lease near it and the center, all new buildings, rent will be 2.50 to 3.00 a sq. ft. I do not know how to download a link to this page so just go to
santacruzsentinel.com and go to rentals and commerical rentals and look at the prices. You will be shocked how far off your examples are. This is not New York.

So if you have say 5000 sq ft you are paying $416.00 a month rent, I don't think so it wouldn't pay the taxes on the building. You just don't know how to read the chart. Rent is expressed annually. Your rent doesn't change for a month that has 28 days and one that has 31 you pay the same rent each month. This is done by calculating the annual rent and dividing it into 12 equal monthly payments regardless how many days are in the month. So $15.00 a foot means 15 x the sq. ft divided by 12 for the monthly rent. The $2.50 and $3.00 you mention is actually around $30.00 and $36.00 a sq ft when expressed properly.

 

[nfty9er]

Somebody is confused

So if you have say 5000 sq ft you are paying $416.00 a month rent, I don't think so it wouldn't pay the taxes on the building. You just don't know how to read the chart. Rent is expressed annually. Your rent doesn't change for a month that has 28 days and one that has 31 you pay the same rent each month. This is done by calculating the annual rent and dividing it into 12 equal monthly payments regardless how many days are in the month. So $15.00 a foot means 15 x the sq. ft divided by 12 for the monthly rent. The $2.50 and $3.00 you mention is actually around $30.00 and $36.00 a sq ft when expressed properly.

Why do you make it so complicated? My lease states my rent per sq. ft. a month is $1.00. So times sq. ft of 7,000 equals $7,000. Lets see your way it comes out the same. Multiply 7,000 times 12 equals 94,000 divided by 12 equals 7,000 or $1.00 a sq. ft. So how many sq. ft. is your building? Look at the website and rents listed that I gave you. Explain that. Not one over $2.00 a sq. ft. They advertise montly rents.
They way you explain it your building is only 375 sq. ft.

 

[catscradle]

Where's my game,,, where did you go Gomer.. Trying to get a line on me. I'll give what ever info you need.. just ask

Why don't you just PM him like he suggested? He clearly doesn't want to make a match in the public forum.

 

[macguy]

Why do you make it so complicated? My lease states my rent per sq. ft. a month is $1.00. So times sq. ft of 7,000 equals $7,000. Lets see your way it comes out the same. Multiply 7,000 times 12 equals 94,000 divided by 12 equals 7,000 or $1.00 a sq. ft. So how many sq. ft. is your building? Look at the website and rents listed that I gave you. Explain that. Not one over $2.00 a sq. ft. They advertise montly rents.
They way you explain it your building is only 375 sq. ft.

They like to write low numbers. Do you pay less rent on shorter months? You can't do rent by the month or the rent would have to be different each month because they have different numbers of days. Even though your lease says $1.00 it is actually based on an annual rent of 12 per sq. ft divided into 12 equal payments. You can write it any way they want it still means the same thing as far as the common terms are concerned. I think Your rent is pretty low for where you are by the way, I hope you have a long lease. With the way things have been going the last few years you could be priced out at some point.

 

[nfty9er]

No its not

They like to write low numbers. Do you pay less rent on shorter months? You can't do rent by the month or the rent would have to be different each month because they have different numbers of days. Even though your lease says $1.00 it is actually based on an annual rent of 12 per sq. ft divided into 12 equal payments. You can write it any way they want it still means the same thing as far as the common terms are concerned. I think Your rent is pretty low for where you are by the way, I hope you have a long lease. With the way things have been going the last few years you could be priced out at some point.

I pay the same each month, my lease is per month. It is raised every year or two based on the cpi. I have been here 26 years. Everyone around me pays about the same. So if I was paying $15 a sq. ft the way I figure it my rent would be $105,000 per month, thats why I say it is not possible for a pool room.

 

[zeeder]

They like to write low numbers. Do you pay less rent on shorter months? You can't do rent by the month or the rent would have to be different each month because they have different numbers of days. Even though your lease says $1.00 it is actually based on an annual rent of 12 per sq. ft divided into 12 equal payments. You can write it any way they want it still means the same thing as far as the common terms are concerned. I think Your rent is pretty low for where you are by the way, I hope you have a long lease. With the way things have been going the last few years you could be priced out at some point.

That's rediculous. What you mean to say is you can't do rent by the day because you would pay a different amount each month, or at least a different amount depending on 28, 30 or 31 days. The way you're saying it is the exact same as the way he is saying it. You're just expressing the amount in rent per sqare foot per year and he's expressing it per month. There's no difference in the values. You would be correct if he was quoting rent per square foot per day. Then the rents would be different on certain months.

 

[zeeder]

I pay the same each month, my lease is per month. It is raised every year or two based on the cpi. I have been here 26 years. Everyone around me pays about the same. So if I was paying $15 a sq. ft the way I figure it my rent would be $105,000 per month, thats why I say it is not possible for a pool room.

This would all be solved if each of you put the cost/rent in terms of either $X/year/sqft or $X/month/sqft. He gets pretty close to what you're paying. He get's $1.25/month/sqft and you pay about $12/year/sqft...lol.

This is why they always told you to remember your units in math class!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[nfty9er]

Thanks

This would all be solved if each of you put the cost/rent in terms of either $X/year/sqft or $X/month/sqft. He gets pretty close to what you're paying. He get's $1.25/month/sqft and you pay about $12/year/sqft...lol.

This is why they always told you to remember your units in math class!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thats for explaining to him, most people want to know bottom line, everyone including house rentals advertise per month not per year. Who wants to have to figure that out. I am a good mathematician however eliminating one step in math is always a good idea.

 

[zeeder]

In February. he has three less business days to make money then he does in December yet pays the same rent. So to prevent having to adjust rent from month to month it is based on an annual amount divided by 12. If you were renting by the month then the number of days in the month would be a factor in determining the rent. it's not because you are renting based on a year even if you only stayed 6 months, you stayed half a year and paid six equal increments of what would be an annual amount. You may pay on the 1st of the month but it has nothing to do directly with that month just the fact the there are 12 months in a year and you are paying 1/12 with each payment.
Lets not do this any more.

This is irrelevent unless the person is paying per day! Anytime there is something that is paid in equal monthly payments, be it salery or rent or mortgage or whatever, is a yearly value split into 12 payments. Unless you're charging by incriments smaller than a month it's a moot point. This is something that is inherently/subconsciously understood by everyone on the planet and thus why the units are so very important!