Pool rooms that closed down due to rent increases?

J

justinb386

Banned
I think about my home town (childhood) pool room (that ran out of business back in late 99 or 2000) from time to time, and I still get very angry when thinking about the rich greedy owners who owned the building.

I am not sure how much the rent originally was when it opened back in the early 90's, but at the time of its closing, the rent was around $2400 a month (from what I heard / from what I remember).

I heard that the owners kept increasing the rent on the guy that ran the pool hall / arcade, and it got to the point where he was barely breaking even after all of the expenses.

I imagine that none of you guys have ever heard of the place, but it was called Power Players, and was located in Carbondale (in Southern Illinois).

I loved that place.

It had 12 nice Valley 8 foot tables (that the owner kept in good condition, and refelted on a regular bases).

Anyways, I just do not understand the sense in driving the rent up to the point where the place can't stay in business, and then it end up being nothing but an empty space for years after it gets closed.

But I understand that maybe the owners did not expect the building to remain empty for so many years.

If the owners could have made the rent more affordable, then I think the place could have remained open (maybe even to this day), but the owners would rather just let it sit empty, and collect nothing (0 income) on the place for years.

After years, the building ended up being an information center (to hand out info / flyers about the city of Carbondale).

I just wonder if greedy building owners like that ever regret their decision to drive pool room owners out of business, due to rent increases.

Why not work with the pool room owners (like maybe even lowering the rent, in times when they are hurting for business)?

It is better then letting the building sit empty, and collecting no rent money at all, right?

Anyways, I just really miss my old home town pool room (that I grew up shooting at), and still upset that it ran out of business.

The owner closed it, because he was no longer making any money, and knew he could go back to driving a truck, and make a very good yearly income.

It is just really sad when your local pool room closes down.
 
Maybe the owner of the building was just trying to keep up with the increase in his expenses like property taxes, insurance, utilities and so on.

Nah, it's easier, and a lot more fun, to just call him greedy.
 
I used to cook in a folk music club in downtown Lowell, ma. The owner of the building was ruthless and saw this wide eyed entrepreneur coming from a mile away. He had him paying rent for four floors of space when he was only using one half of a floor for the club. They also had it rigged so he was paying the electricity for the whole rest of the building, which included the owners bar. If this wasn't enough he was strangling him with increases to rent the was already too high. The club never stood a chance. Now granted he should have had a lawyer look at the lease he was signing and vetted these things out, but, it is still unconscionable on behalf of the property owner.

The commercial real estate market is full of people like this. There business is to suck money out of the businesses they rent to. Once that business closed they look for another to gouge and the cycle continues. In fact business in general is run that way. Between suppliers, insurance carriers, staffing companies, taxes etc, etc... Small business are supposed to fail. All of that money just feeds the bigger fish. It does seem that the owner of this particular building just priced himself out of the game. He would have made substantially more money in the long run if he didn't let his greed get the best of him, but that is not how capitalism works. You gotta grab that cash with both hands and make a stash.
 
bdorman said:
Maybe the owner of the building was just trying to keep up with the increase in his expenses like property taxes, insurance, utilities and so on.

Nah, it's easier, and a lot more fun, to just call him greedy.
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But the owners still had to pay all of those expenses for years while the building sat empty, right? At least they could have been making some income off of the building if they made the rent a little more affordable, right?
 
To be fair, there are also people on the other side of the street. People who are fair and impartial and just trying to make a living. People who offer decent rents and take a vested interest in the success of their tenants, however I do not think that is the norm.
 
Justin I feel ya, I really do. I lost " my " pool hall due to them not renewing the lease. It was not a money thing. It was a police thing. They were threatening to charge him with " nuisance " if you know what that means. Aside from that, I am in the rally estate game, I'll give ya a couple tips. Will it seems cut and dry to most,it's not. Yes it's a gamble if you think you can get more of course. But that's not it. If the owner can Crack the nut, and the space can be declared as lost income and be written off. The owner of the building breaks his nut or more, build equity every year, and writes off the unit as unrented space. Quite profitable actually.
 
justinb386 said:
I think about my home town (childhood) pool room (that ran out of business back in late 99 or 2000) from time to time, and I still get very angry when thinking about the rich greedy owners who owned the building.

I am not sure how much the rent originally was when it opened back in the early 90's, but at the time of its closing, the rent was around $2400 a month (from what I heard / from what I remember).

I heard that the owners kept increasing the rent on the guy that ran the pool hall / arcade, and it got to the point where he was barely breaking even after all of the expenses.

I imagine that none of you guys have ever heard of the place, but it was called Power Players, and was located in Carbondale (in Southern Illinois).

I loved that place.

It had 12 nice Valley 8 foot tables (that the owner kept in good condition, and refelted on a regular bases).

Anyways, I just do not understand the sense in driving the rent up to the point where the place can't stay in business, and then it end up being nothing but an empty space for years after it gets closed.

But I understand that maybe the owners did not expect the building to remain empty for so many years.

If the owners could have made the rent more affordable, then I think the place could have remained open (maybe even to this day), but the owners would rather just let it sit empty, and collect nothing (0 income) on the place for years.

After years, the building ended up being an information center (to hand out info / flyers about the city of Carbondale).

I just wonder if greedy building owners like that ever regret their decision to drive pool room owners out of business, due to rent increases.

Why not work with the pool room owners (like maybe even lowering the rent, in times when they are hurting for business)?

It is better then letting the building sit empty, and collecting no rent money at all, right?

Anyways, I just really miss my old home town pool room (that I grew up shooting at), and still upset that it ran out of business.

The owner closed it, because he was no longer making any money, and knew he could go back to driving a truck, and make a very good yearly income.

It is just really sad when your local pool room closes down.
Click to expand...

Yeah, all those greedy capitalists...

On the other hand, I'm sure you still make the same salary you were being paid in 1999
and every time your boss tries to force you to accept a raise in pay you threaten to resign.

Dale
 
Lost the first pool hall I learned in to lease going up. Its a bummer but just buisness. Adapt or die, welcome sports bar and grill.
 
justinb386 said:
I think about my home town (childhood) pool room (that ran out of business back in late 99 or 2000) from time to time, and I still get very angry when thinking about the rich greedy owners who owned the building.

I am not sure how much the rent originally was when it opened back in the early 90's, but at the time of its closing, the rent was around $2400 a month (from what I heard / from what I remember).

I heard that the owners kept increasing the rent on the guy that ran the pool hall / arcade, and it got to the point where he was barely breaking even after all of the expenses.

I imagine that none of you guys have ever heard of the place, but it was called Power Players, and was located in Carbondale (in Southern Illinois).

I loved that place.

It had 12 nice Valley 8 foot tables (that the owner kept in good condition, and refelted on a regular bases).

Anyways, I just do not understand the sense in driving the rent up to the point where the place can't stay in business, and then it end up being nothing but an empty space for years after it gets closed.

But I understand that maybe the owners did not expect the building to remain empty for so many years.

If the owners could have made the rent more affordable, then I think the place could have remained open (maybe even to this day), but the owners would rather just let it sit empty, and collect nothing (0 income) on the place for years.

After years, the building ended up being an information center (to hand out info / flyers about the city of Carbondale).

I just wonder if greedy building owners like that ever regret their decision to drive pool room owners out of business, due to rent increases.

Why not work with the pool room owners (like maybe even lowering the rent, in times when they are hurting for business)?

It is better then letting the building sit empty, and collecting no rent money at all, right?

Anyways, I just really miss my old home town pool room (that I grew up shooting at), and still upset that it ran out of business.

The owner closed it, because he was no longer making any money, and knew he could go back to driving a truck, and make a very good yearly income.

It is just really sad when your local pool room closes down.
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Usually the last thing you want to do is raise the rent and have a tenant leave. From the time they move and you have to rehab the building and find a new tenant you lose a lot of money. Even when you get a new tenant at the higher rate it could take 2 years year of more before you are even with the new rent to where you would have been if the old tenant had never left. There is usually a good reason a landlord wants someone out much more then getting more rent.

My sister and I used to own a strip center and I can tell you, I would really work with people before I would let them leave. I have even lowered rent rather then lose a good tenant. Having said that, I am glad I don't own it any more, what a headache.
 
I went into a nice poolroom at 1PM one day and noticed I was the only customer. The elderly woman watched me rack the balls and then she said "If you put the chalk face down on the rail, you'll have to leave. We don't tolerate that."
I never put the chalk face down on the rail. I knew why she didn't have any customers.
Some people chase customers away.
Then you have the owner/tournament directors that will change the rules during the tournament or allow a late comer to get in after the draw has been completed.
After that they'll adjust the prize payouts so they can scrape even more off the top for themselves.
 
Cracktherack said:
I went into a nice poolroom at 1PM one day and noticed I was the only customer. The elderly woman watched me rack the balls and then she said "If you put the chalk face down on the rail, you'll have to leave. We don't tolerate that."
I never put the chalk face down on the rail. I knew why she didn't have any customers.
Some people chase customers away.
Then you have the owner/tournament directors that will change the rules during the tournament or allow a late comer to get in after the draw has been completed.
After that they'll adjust the prize payouts so they can scrape even more off the top for themselves.
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A sign on the wall of a pool room I was in once. There was no one in the place by the way.

"IF YOU HAVE NOTHING TO DO, DON'T DO IT HERE"

They were as much as saying, all you are to us is a dollar sign, not a friend or a customer.
 
bdorman said:
Maybe the owner of the building was just trying to keep up with the increase in his expenses like property taxes, insurance, utilities and so on.

Nah, it's easier, and a lot more fun, to just call him greedy.
Click to expand...

Bingo! The property taxes are public record...The happiest day in my life was when I sold a piece of commercial property I used to own. The taxes had climbed 8 fold in a four year span.

Anyway, why don't you go look at the property tax records before accusing the property owner of "greed"?

(edit) I was able to later find a much better way of investing with much lass headaches. Currently, the only property I'm interested in owning is the property I live on.
 
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BmoreMoney said:
Justin I feel ya, I really do. I lost " my " pool hall due to them not renewing the lease. It was not a money thing. It was a police thing. They were threatening to charge him with " nuisance " if you know what that means. Aside from that, I am in the rally estate game, I'll give ya a couple tips. Will it seems cut and dry to most,it's not. Yes it's a gamble if you think you can get more of course. But that's not it. If the owner can Crack the nut, and the space can be declared as lost income and be written off. The owner of the building breaks his nut or more, build equity every year, and writes off the unit as unrented space. Quite profitable actually.
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That is interesting. I did not know that they could get the lost money back (on a tax write off?) if unable to get a new business to replace the pool hall.

I actually heard that the owners constantly increased the rent on purpose to drive the pool hall out, because they did not like the pool hall (they thought it was a really bad croud, and maybe bad for the image of the city).
 
pool rooms

a local room near me that was around 5000 square feet closed down ( when the building owner wanted to raise the rent from $9000 a month to $12000 and wouldn't budge on the price.
 
macguy said:
A sign on the wall of a pool room I was in once. There was no one in the place by the way.

"IF YOU HAVE NOTHING TO DO, DON'T DO IT HERE"

They were as much as saying, all you are to us is a dollar sign, not a friend or a customer.
Click to expand...

Power players was a very nice pool hall, and a great place for teens to hang out. It gave the teens someplace to go, in a small town where there was not much to do (entertainment wise ). The owner was really cool, and he just did not like people sitting on the tables. Other basic rules to, that would be standard for the average pool hall. He just did not want the building or his tables damaged.
 
pwd72s said:
Bingo! The property taxes are public record...The happiest day in my life was when I sold a piece of commercial property I used to own. The taxes had climbed 8 fold in a four year span.

Anyway, why don't you go look at the property tax records before accusing the property owner of "greed"?

(edit) I was able to later find a much better way of investing with much lass headaches. Currently, the only property I'm interested in owning is the property I live on.
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I am sorry. I am not bright about any of this business and tax stuff. Just telling it the way I heard it from the owner. Just sad my home town pool room closed down. There has not been a new pool room in town since that one closed down. Actually, many other businesses that had a nice pool scene have closed down too, in my home town. It is just sad.
 
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Most have beat me to it, but I own / manage commercial property in the Midwest. We own property that rents for $6 - $30 per square foot annually.

Trust me, these days the cost of insurance, taxes, CAM and overhead have grown exponentially. I have a number of spaces that I wish were vacant as oppose to the bad tenants I have now.

Don't blame the property owner, blame the moving target of how to make ANY business viable, bad operators or the fact that pool halls are a terrible investment....
 
This is really laughable. Some of the responses MIGHT be from people who don't realize that operating a poolroom profitably today in this country is nearly impossible? Or, perhaps they just enjoy "tweaking the little guy"? Seriously, please base your negativity on reality, or is that too much to ask? This is not 1940, 1950, or 1960 when poolrooms, taverns, etc. were everywhere in most big cities. Times have changed, folks.
A sensible argument would be to ask why snooker in England, Ireland, Scotland, and the rest of Europe and other parts of the world is so amazingly profitable along with the businesses that benefit from it? Oh, excuse me, that would get to the bottom of the real issue.......end of rant.
 
jwh1942 said:
This is really laughable. Some of the responses MIGHT be from people who don't realize that operating a poolroom profitably today in this country is nearly impossible? Or, perhaps they just enjoy "tweaking the little guy"? Seriously, please base your negativity on reality, or is that too much to ask? This is not 1940, 1950, or 1960 when poolrooms, taverns, etc. were everywhere in most big cities. Times have changed, folks.
A sensible argument would be to ask why snooker in England, Ireland, Scotland, and the rest of Europe and other parts of the world is so amazingly profitable along with the businesses that benefit from it? Oh, excuse me, that would get to the bottom of the real issue.......end of rant.
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Well, I was talking about a pool hall that closed back in 99. Pool was still a pretty popular game back then (even in my home town, of only around 30,000 people). THe place was packed every Friday and Saturday night. The pool hall seemed to be doing okay, but maybe his rates were just too low ($2.00 per hour in the day time, and $4.00 per hour at night, and that was not per person, it was per table). Half of the place was an Arcade, and that section was always pretty busy, but the owners of the machines probably took 50% of the profit I am guessing. $2400 per month rent on a building in a very small city just seems like a lot to me, and this was back in 99, or 2000. I just miss the place. That is all. I should not blame the owners. I understand that it was just business (not personal). Maybe both though, if they did not like the place.
 
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